Impact on US Mint changing metal content?
jshaulis
Posts: 856 ✭✭✭✭
Obviously super early here, but how do you think this would change things moving forward?
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Making our money worth less. Always a good thing....
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Like going back to 1964. Imagine that we won't think much about it at first, but in 20 years we'll all be digging through our change looking for pre 2024 (or so) coins.
http://ProofCollection.Net
This quote made the whole article with it.
Ernst said in an email to CNBC. “Only Washington could lose money making money.”
Even if it cost more than a nickel to make a nickel - it doesn’t cost a dollar to make a dollar so it should be okay overall … no??
what cheaper metal will they use? steel?
I have all the material on this. In fact it is a bill from 2020 who past Senate and the House. I think was H1679 and S628
If someone interested I can post. I also talk about with Mike Diamond to check if some penny or others was not changed.
Yes for penny to be non-magnetic steel.
NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT.
FIRST THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL.
THEN, THEY WILL BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
MARK TWAIN
Just going from clad to nickel (75% copper and 25% nickel like on the current nickel) would save a lot of money.
Also, get rid of the cent and nickel which now have very little purchasing power due to ongoing inflation with no end in sight.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Zinc? Like the cent
Is there any non-clad metal composition for dimes and quarters that would be compatible with current vending machines?
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I hope there is a metal/alloy choice that is better than zinc. Zinc corrodes quickly. We need coins that are durable. Cheers, RickO
We should reintroduce the half dime...
In silver? You do realize it would be ridiculously small. They also wouldn't last a year in circulation.
I think as a throw back..the Mint should put arrows on either side of the date to show a change in metal composition...it will be 1853 all over again!
In whatever base metal composition would be used or clad. It would reduce the cost of producing 5 cent pieces. Other countries have pieces just as small.
I thought the mint wasn’t making one cent coins anymore, in the next few years or so?
They wouldn't work in the millions of vending machines which would be a BIG problem and why Congress would never approve it. Just eliminate the cent and nickel for commerce and perhaps just make them for coin collectors in the mint sets, proof sets, and rolls to be sold to coin collectors and coin dealers at a premium.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
There has been so much design change since 1999, I doubt it will make any difference to coin collecting. Depending upon what the coins look like, not sure the public would even notice.
Why not use plastic? It’s all the same, right
Thank the Lord they didn't use plastic to make Buffalo Nickels.
Pete
I agree. About 75% of the coins made for circulation are cents and nickels. Eliminating them would save the cost (and environmental impact) of minting, storing and transporting them.
In 1913 the cent was the smallest denomination, and coins were an important medium of exchange. Today it takes 3 dimes to equal the purchasing power of the cent in 1913, and electronic payments are standard even for small transactions. There's no reason to continue minting coins of such infinitesimal value.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
CNBC wanted to put my computer through the ringer, so I gave up on reading the article.
The sad fact is, coins are becoming obsolete. A lot of people don't carry them any more. One of the "quickey deals" on the "Let's Make a Deal" TV show is produce a quarter from your pocket and get $300. So if they want to make coins out of plastic, I guess it will be okay. Even if the counterfeits replicate them, there won't be much market for them.
The main obstacle could be the vending machine industry. They used to argue that radical changes in coin compositions would force them into expensive retooling. That’s why we ended up with the clad coinage. Since they now use credit cards extensively, that might not be much of a factor.
You are 100% incorrect.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Congressional action wouldn't even be necessary to stop making the cent and nickel for circulation. It would be necessary to eliminate the denomination outright, but the government could do to cents and nickels what they've done to half dollars and dollar coins and force people to figure things out on their own.
I agree,...They should have used wood...
Or, adjusting for inflation, here’s a fiver. 😁
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
If a small child swallows a plastic coin and it get stuck somewhere in his digestive track, will it show up on an X-Ray machine so it can be surgically removed?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
My students carry zero cash. I rarely do any cash transactions. To go with "100% incorrect" rather overstates it. Yes, there are still cash transactions, but fewer every year.
Try and rent a car with cash. It's not even easy to get a hotel room with cash. Cash's days are numbered. It's just a question of what the number is.
Don’t know about kids but when my dog “Rags” passed they were able to X-ray her tummy. Miniature shampoo bottles and all. Plastic sure showed up on hers 😁
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Apples and oranges, you are talking about larger retail purchases where the use of a credit/debit card has been the norm for decades. Bill was talking about vending machines not hotel or rental cars, yes it is true that large corporations like Coke and Pepsi will have a card reader on a high (but not all) percentage of machines that they put out in a public space or in an area that has a large population like the school where you are. But there are far more machines out in the hands of small business owners for whom the costs associated with updating and adding a card reader, plus the monthly airtime charges and vig we have to pay the processor, simply does not make sense. Even on my high volume machines with card readers I see about a 60/40 split between card/cash.
And just because a few jokers here think getting rid of cash or coins is a good move it will not happen. How are you going to give handouts to the panhandlers if all you have is your apple watch.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
As someone mentioned above, the key is compatibility with existing vending machine infrastructure. Gov't won't do something that will render all vending machines obsolete so new coins will have to work the same as the old ones; however they manage to do that.
http://ProofCollection.Net
There are no vending machines on any local campus here that don't take cards or cell phone payments. Again, we're not there yet but we will arrive.
Multiple governments are already looking into cashless payments. It WILL happen. It's just a question of when. Vending machines and beggars may slow it down but they won't stop it.
And every single one of those machines that can take a card will (and does) also take cash, guaranteed.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I still carry folding money, usually a few hundred. But not coins of any denomination. It has no purchasing power (even dollar coins just like $1 bills). I also avoid paying in cash where I will receive change back unless absolutely necessary. I don't want it.
Bogus april fools gag that some still think is real.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Well now I’m just mad 😡 lol
Would you care to explain, or do you think that you made your point with a four word response?
If you read his response to me, you'll get the full story.
Thank you.
Call me crazy, but what if the government shoots a anti inflation death-ray and zap 50% of everyone’s money away!😆🤣
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
End the UnFederal Reserve.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I agree someday we will be a cashless society. Just don't think anyone on this forum will be alive to witness it.
I think there will always be a need for cash, especially with concerns over civil liberties. Will coins be dominant, maybe not, but there will be dollar bills like we have now. Just that we may never replace the $1 bill with the $1 coin because there's no need to and half dollars will never be common in circulation. The US mint might just be the Quarter and bullion factory.
I have a theory that if the government did get rid of physical coins and cash, suddenly 90% silver and crypto will become the medium of exchange "outside of the system."
http://ProofCollection.Net
Crypto, maybe. I really don't see people being able to transact in silver.
They just had a “quicky deal” on “Let’s Make a Deal.” If you have 35 cents, it’s worth $400. As Wayne Brady said, “Most people don’t carry change.” A lady with a change purse had it.
You have to love it when a bill is introduced - and you can't even see the text yet - but people are acting like it's passed into law.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Just because the machines you see at a convention center or the local college campus are outfitted with a card reader is no indication of the number of machines that are out in the marketplace, places you do not go, which are not outfitted with a card reader. Yes card readers are more commonplace and especially in public areas like malls, large university campuses, convention centers and the like. But not every machine in the US has a reader.
I have owned and operated my vending machine business since 1996, only about half of my machines have a card reader because some locations do not generate enough revenue to make it financially viable to update and outfit. And I am not alone, there are thousands of small business owners, be it vending machines, coin-op laundry shops, and many others who have cash only machines operating in their businesses.
It takes anywhere from $800 to $1,500 per machine depending on if you need to update the software as well as the hardware to add a card reader. Older hardware and software cannot communicate with the readers in many cases, and in some cases the cost to update is more than the machine may be worth. I recently donated a machine to a church youth group for their rec room because it would have cost more to update that machine than it was worth.
Also, there are the monthly costs to operate a card reader, the air charges and the 6% of each swipe that the processing company takes really adds up, the machine owner has to up the prices to cover these costs. However, this can cause a reduction in sales as many people are still reeling from inflation, which makes it even more unprofitable to add a card reader. I service several middle and high schools in my area, and while the younger teachers want a reader on the machine, when I explain how much the prices are going to go up to accommodate that request, the answer I get is almost unilaterally the same, "Oh ok please don't we don't make enough to afford higher prices".
So, you are incorrect because the vending industry will fight this to the bitter end, it may become a losing battle some day, but I do not think it will be anytime soon.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Thank you for explaining your position, @coinbuf. Perhaps your customers are carrying coins, but I have run into stores, like Michaels, which strongly discourage the use paper money, let alone coins. Unfortunately times are changing.
When you live in a modern city center it's easy to forgot or not realize that many parts of the country still rely on and use coin-op machines that are simply not feasible to update as coinbuf explained. Most of the machines produced in the 80's and 90's and 00's are still viable and can't realistically be replaced or go away overnight without pissing off and adversely affecting a lot of people.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I find that a bit difficult to believe, there is a Michaels a half a mile from my house that my wife goes too often, she loves to sew. That store has never had any issue taking cash, coins or bills, in the past two years. Sure during the pandemic some businesses did discourage the use of cash as much as possible, but no sane business should turn away a paying customer.
Perhaps that is more of a store or regional manager issue. But I really doubt that Michaels as a corporation is actively trying to discourage the use of cash in its stores. It could also be a banking issue, prior to the pandemic I had to change banks because BofA had become impossible to work with when it came to depositing coins. I cannot say if that was a companywide issue or just at that branch, but they did not want the volume of coins that I deal with. So I could see a particular store or area that might try and encourage electronic payments, but not any type of outright ban on cash transactions at most retail locations.
But even past the vending industry there are so many business sectors that still use cash as the primary medium of exchange. No doubt I am one of few on this forum to have a front row seat to the massive immigration (legal and not) currently at the southern border. I can assure you that few of those folks have a debit card in their pocket or a bank account to use for electronic transactions. A very high percentage of that population gets started in the day labor market which is another sector of the economy that relies on heavily on cash.
I just don't see cash ever being eliminated fully, no matter how much some people want that.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.