Vacuum sealing slabbed coins for longterm storage?

dollarfan

Hello. Would vacuum sealing slabbed coins for longterm storage be an added feature? I am thinking of sealing entire intercept shield boxes. Also, will old slab NGC fatty holders continue to tone forever? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I truly appreciate your advice. Thanks

scooter25

Personally, I like to take mine out to look at them from time to time. I wouldn’t want all that extra plastic on my plastic lol

dsessom

In theory, slabs are hermetically sealed, so air can't get in or out - so vacuum sealing them would do nothing to add any protection. On the NGC fatty, are you referring to a coin that's inside one? I have seen coins change color slightly in all TGP holders. Even gold.

Jzyskowski1

Its not just ngc. I’ve got anacs and pcgs slabs, new and old and if there’s toning or milk spots or shmutz it will remain or continue to tone, spot or whatever. My Morgan in an anacs slab ( not noticeable toning when purchased 30 years ago) turned in the slab)is actually getting a much better look as time goes by. So there’s that.
I too, enjoy looking and holding my coins and wouldn’t necessarily think of vacuum sealing. As to will it hurt the coins? Unfortunately only time would tell. Thanks 🙏

Mr_Spud

I tried vacuum sealing some mint products and it made the outer boxes cave in, so the same thing might happen if you try and vacuum seal intercept slab boxes. But I successfully did it with some plastic cased proof sets without the boxes. The only thing is that, after about 10 years they had totally lost their vacuum and had air in the plastic even though the plastic had been sucked in when I first sealed them. Argon gas, which you can buy from Amazon for putting in rare wine bottles, inside of Tupperware might work better than a vacuum in the long run. I also do things like put mint rolls in mason jars with desiccant cartridges inside. I bought some humidity meters that are built into mason jar lids and the relative humidity is down to just 10% which should really slow down and toning/tarnishing. You could do similar with slabs of really special coins

JWP

Can't say I have ever thought about vacuum sealing slabs. I like looking at the coins and showing them to others too. I would have to take a humongous amount of pictures to remember what was in them boxes too. Geez, what were we talking about again. Oh well, good night folks.

TomB

None of the major third-party graders (TPGs) advertise that their slabs are airtight and, indeed, none of them should be considered airtight.

Unless you live in an environmentally taxing area or store your slabs in a particularly hazardous manner, it would seem to me that vacuum sealing is overkill. I have coins that were certified over a quarter century ago that are still in my possession and that have not changed in appearance in that time. They are also kept in safe deposit boxes (SDBs), which are typically areas of higher humidity and might be expected to make them change with time. My slabbed coins are then kept in Intercept Shield boxes and I simply place each ten-pack Intercept Shield box into its own Ziplock storage bag and drop them in the SDBs. Problems averted.

NGC fatties may or may not tone forever, but I would expect the rate of toning would decrease, all else being equal, with time since any toning agents have likely degraded or escaped the slab by this point.

Mr_Spud

.just FYI - I do similar to what TomB just said with my slabbed coins in the bank SDB. I tried the vacuum sealer and do the microclimate things at home with mint rolls and mint products as well as lower value albums (in Tupperware with desiccant) because I live in a beach cottage 6 blocks from the ocean. Up until just about a year ago we didn’t have air conditioning and the RH is typically about 75%. Between the smog and the RH, metal things don’t last long here without corrosion. Also, I kind of enjoy making time capsule microclimates for my coins. It’s fun for me. I also make different humidity microclimates in my lab at work using different saturated salt solutions to study the effects of different humidities on Softgel capsules, tons of fun. I formulate Softgel capsules for a living. Here’s a couple of pictures of part of my lab where I keep the humidity jars and chambers 🌞

BStrauss3

@dsessom said:
In theory, slabs are hermetically sealed, so air can't get in or out - so vacuum sealing them would do nothing to add any protection. On the NGC fatty, are you referring to a coin that's inside one? I have seen coins change color slightly in all TGP holders. Even gold.

No, they are not. No slab is gas-tight. There was a single version of PCGS' slab that was watertight, but I do not believe it is being made any longer.

Cougar1978

I don’t believe slabs are air tight. Is their some TPG claim to that? If they are in a vacuum environment that should be positive for coin preservation. However heat may be a problem.

I see ms 66 slabbed coins on online all the time (seller trying unload them) that obviously went bad (darkened) in the holder (horrible dark toning - sort of anthracite black look) which possibly been held a long time. It makes the grade on the holder a joke - large dark areas etc. it gets darker as time goes on. Some can’t get $25 bid. Maybe get melt. What’s going to happen to some stickered coin somebody paid a pretty hefty premium for that went dark in holder after several years. Can’t you see somebody pitifully trying unload it on bourse at a show?

You probably need to churn (or dip) your investment probably every 3 years or so. Now if they in vacuum different….. One reason reason the long term hold thingy such a farce - if unattractive tarnish sets in……poof goes your investment. The thing about bank SDB is when they turn off the ac at closing and its really hot outside what do you think happens? What I would want is a stilt house in Hollywood hills w pool and neat view plus a basement w swanky gaming area, office, with bolt down safe, gun safe, liquor cabinet, that’s underground / outta sight, nice & quiet - a real man cave.

pruebas

@TomB said:
None of the major third-party graders (TPGs) advertise that their slabs are airtight and, indeed, none of them should be considered airtight.

Unless you live in an environmentally taxing area or store your slabs in a particularly hazardous manner, it would seem to me that vacuum sealing is overkill. I have coins that were certified over a quarter century ago that are still in my possession and that have not changed in appearance in that time. They are also kept in safe deposit boxes (SDBs), which are typically areas of higher humidity and might be expected to make them change with time. My slabbed coins are then kept in Intercept Shield boxes and I simply place each ten-pack Intercept Shield box into its own Ziplock storage bag and drop them in the SDBs. Problems averted.

NGC fatties may or may not tone forever, but I would expect the rate of toning would decrease, all else being equal, with time since any toning agents have likely degraded or escaped the slab by this point.

@TomB I remember when David Hall announced the new holder a few years back (at an ANA Set Registry Luncheon) and he specifically said they were waterproof.

Did they change them since then?

TomB

I don't know, but airtight and waterproof are not the same thing.

silviosi

From long time I want to vacuum slabs. Till I do not produce my own slabs I was not really successful. Some PCGS, ANACS and NCG work, with out to broke. Probably the period and the manufacture of slabs composition was the fact..

Yes I told this from years that this it is the only way to preserve as is the coin.

Now I look to see for Notes and stamps, but been paper involve and is need more molecular studies.

PS: Ones in vacuum the coin will be not affect by anything as temperature, UV, humidity and etc.

Harlequin

I use re-sealable clear coin sleeves so I can remove them to view my slabs in hand. The sleeves also help to keep my slabs scratch free when handling and moving about.

gumby1234

I was thinking exactly what @MrSpud said about the box being crushed. A vacuum removes all of the air resulting in weak 《cardboard) material being crushed in the process

dsessom

@BStrauss3 said:

@dsessom said:
In theory, slabs are hermetically sealed, so air can't get in or out - so vacuum sealing them would do nothing to add any protection. On the NGC fatty, are you referring to a coin that's inside one? I have seen coins change color slightly in all TGP holders. Even gold.

No, they are not. No slab is gas-tight. There was a single version of PCGS' slab that was watertight, but I do not believe it is being made any longer.

Oh, ok. I stand corrected. I always thought they were made to seal out the environment, and preserve the coin, but that certainly explains why many silver coins darken in the slab.

ricko

As stated above, slabs are not air tight. That being said, I have had slabs and mint boxed coins stored in my safe for over thirty years and see no change to the coins. The external environment has changed a few times over those years with my relocations. I am not a fan of tarnish, so I would definitely notice any environmental related decomposition. I have other coins in coin cabinets as well... no issues there. Cheers, RickO

TomB

@ricko said:
As stated above, slabs are not air tight. That being said, I have had slabs and mint boxed coins stored in my safe for over thirty years and see no change to the coins. The external environment has changed a few times over those years with my relocations. I am not a fan of tarnish, so I would definitely notice any environmental related decomposition. I have other coins in coin cabinets as well... no issues there. Cheers, RickO

Good thing those coins didn't get any pesky colorful toning on them, @ricko, or we would be reading a new thread on the forums that starts something like "RIP Board Member ricko..."!

ricko

@TomB... At one point, that may have been true.... Now though, with the crazy prices I see being paid for colorful tarnish, I would likely sell them.... 'If you got the money, Honey, I got the coin...' Cheers, RickO

silviosi

@ Mr_Spud
I tried the vacuum sealer and do the microclimate.....

I agree with you on this. Near the salt water, is the most damaging for coins. Your atmosphere has Iodine which it is very reactive element then also high humidex. Is hard to preserve at the best. Good point, if it is = hope no dramatics temperatures change. Home vacuum sealer do not work well. Is need really one and $$$$$. Also I think you need a good air filter ex: submarines airs filters in order to have only N , O and H with less C possible.

Hope you can preserve well the beauties.

Steven59

"Don't mind us - We're just vac packin' some coins"...............

BillJones

I buy coins to enjoy them, not entomb them. If I can’t see them now and then, why own them?

GRANDAM

I remember seeing David Hall putting a PCGS slab in a fish tank to show that it was water tight.

ProofCollection

One could always buy a cheap slab for under $10 on ebay and experiment with it.

emeraldATV

Been keeping an eye on this one. No change in 3 years.
Why ?
I like it with the polar bear on the rev. Spin it to it's right side up on the reverse and there's Snoopy. How ?

PerryHall

@GRANDAM said:
I remember seeing David Hall putting a PCGS slab in a fish tank to show that it was water tight.

Watertight isn't the same as airtight. Many years ago, there was a lengthy thread about someone who was toning coins that were untoned and already in PCGS rattler slabs. As best as could be ascertained, he would take a PCGS slabbed blast white silver coin and put it in a vacuum chamber, pump out all the air, and then introduce a gas with a high sulfur content. The way he got caught was many of his coins were already pictured in auction listings showing blast white untoned surfaces that looked nothing like his final products. The results of his efforts weren't very attractive and it didn't enhance the value of the coins.

ProofCollection

@PerryHall said:

@GRANDAM said:
I remember seeing David Hall putting a PCGS slab in a fish tank to show that it was water tight.

Watertight isn't the same as airtight. Many years ago, there was a lengthy thread about someone who was toning coins that were untoned and already in PCGS rattler slabs. As best as could be ascertained, he would take a PCGS slabbed blast white silver coin and put it in a vacuum chamber, pump out all the air, and then introduce a gas with a high sulfur content. The way he got caught was many of his coins were already pictured in auction listings showing blast white untoned surfaces that looked nothing like his final products. The results of his efforts weren't very attractive and it didn't enhance the value of the coins.

There's a big difference in the quality of a modern slab compared to a rattler. Are there any anecdotes for recent slabs?

PerryHall

@ProofCollection said:

@PerryHall said:

@GRANDAM said:
I remember seeing David Hall putting a PCGS slab in a fish tank to show that it was water tight.

Watertight isn't the same as airtight. Many years ago, there was a lengthy thread about someone who was toning coins that were untoned and already in PCGS rattler slabs. As best as could be ascertained, he would take a PCGS slabbed blast white silver coin and put it in a vacuum chamber, pump out all the air, and then introduce a gas with a high sulfur content. The way he got caught was many of his coins were already pictured in auction listings showing blast white untoned surfaces that looked nothing like his final products. The results of his efforts weren't very attractive and it didn't enhance the value of the coins.

There's a big difference in the quality of a modern slab compared to a rattler. Are there any anecdotes for recent slabs?

None that I'm aware of but even modern slabs aren't totally airtight. When the barometric pressure rises, air will enter a slab and when the barometric pressure drops, air will leave the slab. Over a period of time, there will be numerous changes of the air in the slab. Placing slabs in a zip-lock bag with a desiccant canister will greatly help minimize the effects of any atmospheric humidity and industrial air pollution.

emeraldATV

I think the main influence of changes to a slab may be the temp. in its storage area.
My storage temp. is a constant 70 - 68 degree.
A coin size zip lock is perfect for any coin. I'm going to switch that coin to a zip lock as I'm not happy with the temporary slab it's been in for about a year.