Is the grade on this 1902 Indian cent under, over or correct?

bagofnickels

I was considering posting this coin as a "guess the grade" but recently saw another member asking for opinions on a coins given grade as "Under, Over or Correct." So I have decided to give that format a whirl with this 1902 Indian Cent. It's graded MS65RB by our hosts. I'm interested to hear from members whether they think that the coin is under graded, over graded or correct. All of the marks by the of in 'OF AMERICA' are on the holder. These are the sellers images and they are quite accurate to the coins in hand appearance.

As always thanks in advance.

ricko

@bagofnickels... IMHO, it is accurately graded. Cheers, RickO

dsessom

I would have guessed MS65RD, but I can understand why they designated it RB. That's about the nicest RB you can get, without going completely RD. That is an extremely nice example.

jesbroken

That was actually my guess before seeing their grade, so I would say Correct.
Jim

BillJones

The grade looks accurate to me. There is took much toning to call it "Red."

bagofnickels

@dsessom said:
I would have guessed MS65RD, but I can understand why they designated it RB. That's about the nicest RB you can get, without going completely RD. That is an extremely nice example.

Thank you. I frequently feel like I see comparable coins in RD holders. Part of the reason I really like this coin was the fact it was mostly red.

TomB

I think it is accurately graded and appears to be a nicer than typical MS65RB. Nice coin.

BuffaloIronTail

Looks OK at that grade. the "O" on the reverse is all there. Reverse looks a little (very little) weak.

I don't think it would CAC though.

Pete

OldIndianNutKase

Like most here I think it is a 65RB. The reverse is a weak strike which limits the grade to 65.

mr1931S

I'm not seeing "gem" or 65 but what do i know? Over.

bagofnickels

@BuffaloIronTail said:
Looks OK at that grade. the "O" on the reverse is all there. Reverse looks a little (very little) weak.

I don't think it would CAC though.

Pete

I hadn't really thought about sending it to CAC but I had thought about sending this coin and 2 others I think are comparable to Rick Snow to see if they could get photoseal.

Are you saying it's likelihood to fail at CAC is due to the somewhat soft strike on the reverse?

asheland

Nice IHC!

1madman

The spot on the Indians cheek appears to be a piece of organic material etching into the coin, creating the darkness. I don’t think this is a carbon spot. Unfortunately this is right in the main focal point of the coin.

This coin would be a hard pass for me no matter the assigned grade. CAC should decline stickering this coin. If you have a return privilege, use it.

marcmoish

Nice piece, well graded as is, def rb.

gumby1234

I did it as a guess the grade before I read your comments and came up with 65, so I say accurately graded

Clackamas1

I think it is better than a 65. I graded it 66BN before reading anything. I really like that coin. I have that coin in 65RB, 65RD and 66RD. I could see it as RB.

Steven59

Looks like the correct grade.

Smudge

Looks right.

bagofnickels

@1madman said:
The spot on the Indians cheek appears to be a piece of organic material etching into the coin, creating the darkness. I don’t think this is a carbon spot. Unfortunately this is right in the main focal point of the coin.

This coin would be a hard pass for me no matter the assigned grade. CAC should decline stickering this coin. If you have a return privilege, use it.

I wanted to wait until I could look at the coin in hand to respond. It looks more like a stain to me. The coin is in an OGH so I'm hoping whatever might be on the surface is at least somewhat stable. I'm going to keep an eye on it closely as I do with all of my copper coins.

Is your fear that whatever it is would spread or eat into the coins surface?

I really appreciate everyone's response and input on this coin. Thank you

1madman

@bagofnickels said:

@1madman said:
The spot on the Indians cheek appears to be a piece of organic material etching into the coin, creating the darkness. I don’t think this is a carbon spot. Unfortunately this is right in the main focal point of the coin.

This coin would be a hard pass for me no matter the assigned grade. CAC should decline stickering this coin. If you have a return privilege, use it.

I wanted to wait until I could look at the coin in hand to respond. It looks more like a stain to me. The coin is in an OGH so I'm hoping whatever might be on the surface is at least somewhat stable. I'm going to keep an eye on it closely as I do with all of my copper coins.

Is your fear that whatever it is would spread or eat into the coins surface?

I really appreciate everyone's response and input on this coin. Thank you

Here’s an up close area of the spot. Notice the dark crescent moon shaped area inside the blemish. I can’t tell for certain, but it looks like something is sitting on the surface of the coin, and that caused the darkness to form around it. I’ve seen this happen on countless other coins, and that’s what gives me pause about your coin.

The fear is that the darkening cannot be reversed, and hopefully it will just remain stable. You really have to nitpick copper because of the spots.

winesteven

To me the RB suffix is correct. However, I’ll join @Clackamas1 as thinking it might be better than a 65. Maybe 65+?

Steve

bagofnickels

@winesteven said:
To me the RB suffix is correct. However, I’ll join @Clackamas1 as thinking it might be better than a 65. Maybe 65+?

Steve

Thank you for the reply. Do you think it might have a shot at achieving a Photo Seal? I've never submitted to Rick Snow but I understand his certification is valued highly by IHC collectors.

winesteven

@bagofnickels said:

@winesteven said:
To me the RB suffix is correct. However, I’ll join @Clackamas1 as thinking it might be better than a 65. Maybe 65+?

Steve

Thank you for the reply. Do you think it might have a shot at achieving a Photo Seal? I've never submitted to Rick Snow but I understand his certification is valued highly by IHC collectors.

I do think it has a shot!. The obverse strike is strong, as you can easily see detail in each of the first three feather tips.

While many disagree, when you have coins with nice surfaces, I think it's worth a shot sending it to Rick, and also to CAC, and see what happens. Rick will waive his $15 fee if your coin does not get his Photo Seal. I would send it to Rick first, then CAC. They will each determine if the "stain" on the cheek is problematic for their standard or not.

Good luck, and please let us know the outcome.

Steve

johnny9434

Looks spot on to me, nice coin