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Is the grade on this 1902 Indian cent under, over or correct?

bagofnickelsbagofnickels Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I was considering posting this coin as a "guess the grade" but recently saw another member asking for opinions on a coins given grade as "Under, Over or Correct." So I have decided to give that format a whirl with this 1902 Indian Cent. It's graded MS65RB by our hosts. I'm interested to hear from members whether they think that the coin is under graded, over graded or correct. All of the marks by the of in 'OF AMERICA' are on the holder. These are the sellers images and they are quite accurate to the coins in hand appearance.


As always thanks in advance.

Comments

  • dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have guessed MS65RD, but I can understand why they designated it RB. That's about the nicest RB you can get, without going completely RD. That is an extremely nice example.

    Dwayne Sessom
  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 10,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That was actually my guess before seeing their grade, so I would say Correct.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,009 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The grade looks accurate to me. There is took much toning to call it "Red."

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • bagofnickelsbagofnickels Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭

    @dsessom said:
    I would have guessed MS65RD, but I can understand why they designated it RB. That's about the nicest RB you can get, without going completely RD. That is an extremely nice example.

    Thank you. I frequently feel like I see comparable coins in RD holders. Part of the reason I really like this coin was the fact it was mostly red.

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it is accurately graded and appears to be a nicer than typical MS65RB. Nice coin.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks OK at that grade. the "O" on the reverse is all there. Reverse looks a little (very little) weak.

    I don't think it would CAC though.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Like most here I think it is a 65RB. The reverse is a weak strike which limits the grade to 65.

  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,251 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 10:33AM

    I'm not seeing "gem" or 65 but what do i know? Over.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • bagofnickelsbagofnickels Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    Looks OK at that grade. the "O" on the reverse is all there. Reverse looks a little (very little) weak.

    I don't think it would CAC though.

    Pete

    I hadn't really thought about sending it to CAC but I had thought about sending this coin and 2 others I think are comparable to Rick Snow to see if they could get photoseal.

    Are you saying it's likelihood to fail at CAC is due to the somewhat soft strike on the reverse?

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice IHC!

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  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The spot on the Indians cheek appears to be a piece of organic material etching into the coin, creating the darkness. I don’t think this is a carbon spot. Unfortunately this is right in the main focal point of the coin.

    This coin would be a hard pass for me no matter the assigned grade. CAC should decline stickering this coin. If you have a return privilege, use it.

  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice piece, well graded as is, def rb.

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did it as a guess the grade before I read your comments and came up with 65, so I say accurately graded

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 3:12PM

    I think it is better than a 65. I graded it 66BN before reading anything. I really like that coin. I have that coin in 65RB, 65RD and 66RD. I could see it as RB.

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,710 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like the correct grade.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks right.

  • bagofnickelsbagofnickels Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭

    @1madman said:
    The spot on the Indians cheek appears to be a piece of organic material etching into the coin, creating the darkness. I don’t think this is a carbon spot. Unfortunately this is right in the main focal point of the coin.

    This coin would be a hard pass for me no matter the assigned grade. CAC should decline stickering this coin. If you have a return privilege, use it.

    I wanted to wait until I could look at the coin in hand to respond. It looks more like a stain to me. The coin is in an OGH so I'm hoping whatever might be on the surface is at least somewhat stable. I'm going to keep an eye on it closely as I do with all of my copper coins.

    Is your fear that whatever it is would spread or eat into the coins surface?

    I really appreciate everyone's response and input on this coin. Thank you

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bagofnickels said:

    @1madman said:
    The spot on the Indians cheek appears to be a piece of organic material etching into the coin, creating the darkness. I don’t think this is a carbon spot. Unfortunately this is right in the main focal point of the coin.

    This coin would be a hard pass for me no matter the assigned grade. CAC should decline stickering this coin. If you have a return privilege, use it.

    I wanted to wait until I could look at the coin in hand to respond. It looks more like a stain to me. The coin is in an OGH so I'm hoping whatever might be on the surface is at least somewhat stable. I'm going to keep an eye on it closely as I do with all of my copper coins.

    Is your fear that whatever it is would spread or eat into the coins surface?

    I really appreciate everyone's response and input on this coin. Thank you

    Here’s an up close area of the spot. Notice the dark crescent moon shaped area inside the blemish. I can’t tell for certain, but it looks like something is sitting on the surface of the coin, and that caused the darkness to form around it. I’ve seen this happen on countless other coins, and that’s what gives me pause about your coin.

    The fear is that the darkening cannot be reversed, and hopefully it will just remain stable. You really have to nitpick copper because of the spots.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To me the RB suffix is correct. However, I’ll join @Clackamas1 as thinking it might be better than a 65. Maybe 65+?

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • bagofnickelsbagofnickels Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭

    @winesteven said:
    To me the RB suffix is correct. However, I’ll join @Clackamas1 as thinking it might be better than a 65. Maybe 65+?

    Steve

    Thank you for the reply. Do you think it might have a shot at achieving a Photo Seal? I've never submitted to Rick Snow but I understand his certification is valued highly by IHC collectors.

  • winestevenwinesteven Posts: 4,543 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2023 9:56AM

    @bagofnickels said:

    @winesteven said:
    To me the RB suffix is correct. However, I’ll join @Clackamas1 as thinking it might be better than a 65. Maybe 65+?

    Steve

    Thank you for the reply. Do you think it might have a shot at achieving a Photo Seal? I've never submitted to Rick Snow but I understand his certification is valued highly by IHC collectors.

    I do think it has a shot!. The obverse strike is strong, as you can easily see detail in each of the first three feather tips.

    While many disagree, when you have coins with nice surfaces, I think it's worth a shot sending it to Rick, and also to CAC, and see what happens. Rick will waive his $15 fee if your coin does not get his Photo Seal. I would send it to Rick first, then CAC. They will each determine if the "stain" on the cheek is problematic for their standard or not.

    Good luck, and please let us know the outcome.

    Steve

    A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!

    My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks spot on to me, nice coin

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