1895-S PL Morgan Grading Guess and Discussion w/ PCGS Trueviews - REVEALED
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I own one of these two coins and I find the grades on these PCGS trueview coins interesting.
What would you grade each one and why?
Coin A: Overall has some unattractive toning. Not sure if that takes away from the grade. Obverse fields appear to have much less damage than Coin B, but the face on Coin A is more damaged but no particularly deep gouges. The fields on the reverse are fairly comparable to Coin B in quality. however, the gouges on the eagle's wing are severe.
Coin B: Overall some unattractive toning/mold as well but limited to just one edge of the coin. Obverse fields are heavily marked but the face is relatively defect free with only minor nicks and little disturbance to the finish. Reverse field quality is comparable to Coin A with a few significant marks and a similar quantity of other marks. I do not note any significant gouges on this reverse.
My takeaway:
Coin B's devices are pretty nice but the extreme chatter on the obverse's fields is a big detractor. Coin A at least has fields that are in pretty good shape but the gouge on Eagle and Liberty's face really take away from eye appeal.
Coin A:
Coin B:
Comments
Coin A very close to PL 63.
Coin B some very deep gashes on obverse field would 62 it for me.
Both decent coins and important Morgans.
62 and 63 respectively
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They both look 62 to me.From the pics I would go with b for the cleaner cheek.Tough date,thanks for posting the pics!
Both of them are waaaaayyyyy above my pay grade; I wouldn't complain about either one of those lovely coins!
64 and 65.
Crazy as it feels, I think they are both 62's, although Morgan's are not my series. Like @jughead1893 I THINK I'd take coin B for similar reasons.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
62PL
61 (no PL)
A, it has some frost and appears nicer from the photos
I’d guess 62 and 63, respectively. However, regardless of the assigned grades, I much prefer coin B. The face and neck of coin A kill it for me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
They are both PL coins being compared as stated in this posts title.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Coin A, I like the overall pleasing look.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Both very nice. I was going to guess MS63PL on coin A except you noted the reverse wing gauges are pretty severe. So I'll say MS62PL for both. I like A better, looks frostier in the photos.
They look like MS62 ... I do not care for the appearance of either one.. both would be a pass for me if I were in the market for one. Cheers, RickO
----------REVEAL-------------
Interesting responses!
Coin A is mine and is MS61PL: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/14114897
Coin B is not mine but is MS63PL: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/30505788
Based on the responses with no one at MS61 for coin A I wonder if it might be worth sending in for regrade?
I do think coin B is over graded at 63.
I posted this because I was pretty stunned to see a 2 point grade difference between the two.
This is what I would call a true MS63PL, perhaps MS63+PL, and the two coins above do not compare:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/41000306
http://ProofCollection.Net
Looks like Top 100 VAM 4 (S over horizontal S), which the vast majority of 1895-S in PL or DMPL seem to be.
Thanks for sharing. Would definitely take the above coin over Coin B in a heart beat if I could afford it, lol. Way above my pay grade.
I'd definitely do a crack out and submit at a show to avoid one trip by mail anyway. Your coin seems under graded to me.
Has it ever been submitted to CAC?
I've never sent it to CAC. It did just get it back from a re-holder though. Now I wish I had done more.
If I'm sending in for regrade or crack-out, does anyone think restoration could clear up the toning? Here's a HA pic.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1895-s-1-ms61-prooflike-pcgs-pcgs-population-11-67-ngc-census-16-83-ms61-mintage-1-200-000-pcgs-7239-/a/60265-92193.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
http://ProofCollection.Net
Fields matter, but the face matters more. I'm more surprised coin B graded 63 than I am that coin A graded 61. Your later example of a 63 looks far superior to the other.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Thanks for posting. I'd have said 62PL for both with a preference for Coin B. Both have significant chatter in the fields but I'd give B the edge because of a cleaner cheek.
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Agreed about Liberty’s face and the one on the MS61 coin has had a hard life.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Coin A may be a 61 if viewed in hand, but looked 62 to me and I correctly guessed coin B as a 63. It has a better strike and a cleaner cheek by far. The cheek goes a long way in grading Morgans.
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I did just get it back from the reholder today and in hand I have to say I'm not as optimistic about MS62. It's pretty "icy" when viewed in good light at an angle. I still wouldn't mind getting rid of the toning if restoration could do that, I would then get a re-grade in that process. It might get a + if nothing else as I think this was originally graded before + designations were used. There is not really much price difference for 61 to 62 either though, but on a low-pop coin it is probably worth getting the highest label and best presentation possible.
http://ProofCollection.Net
As far as I know, 61 isn't eligible for a +.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Unfortunately, you're correct. Darn.
Playing around with my camera, here are some photos to give another view. Anyone change their grade based on these photos?
http://ProofCollection.Net
looks more like a 61 in the new pics.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Yeah, that's awfully crunchy for anything higher than 61.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Wow what a difference from your original photo. I'd be very disappointed if I bot from 1st photo and seen that in hand.