Results with new camera and objective lens

rmpsrpms

I have been shooting with a Sony A7R4 for a while now, and the results have been very good. I posted some high resolution images a while back, taken at 1.7x magnification, and stitched together to make an 81MP final image. See that result here:

https://www.easyzoom.com/image/343176/album/0/4?mode=manage

Recently I've been shooting phonograph styli to evaluate the amount of wear, and measure the contact patches. For that work I've been using a new objective, a Nikon BD Plan 20X ELWD. I have tried using 20x objectives before for coins, but they have been too strong for the APS-C cameras I've used. The new Sony is Full Frame, so has a wider field of view for the same magnification, so going up to 20x is now practical for things like Mintmark photos. The neat thing about going up in magnification is that the depth of field is significantly reduced, and this makes doing 3D work easier. Smaller step sizes allows me to "fill in" the details much easier.

Here's an example of the mintmark (regular, not an RPM) on a 54-S Cent. The 2D result benefits from the BD illumination, while the 3D result benefits from the shallow depth of field. The 3D rendering is smoother and more detailed, and you can see the die wear on the field at the edges of the MM very clearly.

For those interested in phono cartridges and exotic styli, here's a "glamor" photo I took of a Sumiko Andante P76:

MWallace

These just may be the best close-ups I've seen in 50+ years of collecting. I especially find the photo of the mint mark taken horizontally (3rd photo) interesting.

ctf_error_coins

Crazy cool technology.

rmpsrpms

Thanks for the kind comments.

The rendering technology allows me to "invert" the 3D depth map, thereby producing what I call the "die view", basically showing what the die that struck the coin looked like. Here's a Die View rendering:

WaterSport

Just remarkable!

BStrauss3

@rmpsrpms said:
Thanks for the kind comments.

The rendering technology allows me to "invert" the 3D depth map, thereby producing what I call the "die view", basically showing what the die that struck the coin looked like. Here's a Die View rendering:

Interesting... what happens if you image and invert an added mintmark - I bet it clearly shows an impossible die configuration...

Steven59

Pretty amazing close up pictures!

rmpsrpms

@BStrauss3 said:
Interesting... what happens if you image and invert an added mintmark - I bet it clearly shows an impossible die configuration...

Yes, I believe it would show the tooling from an added mintmark very clearly. A couple of folks have approached me to do just that, but for some reason it always fizzles, so I have not been able to prove the technology for that use. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?) I don't own a counterfeit/added MM so can't verify it myself.

dsessom

Those images are mind blowing! I didn't even know this was possible.

Shane6596

That is amazing!

If compugrade sees this, theyll be back in business. Lol

rmpsrpms

SEM technology has been around a long time, but with SEM you only get one view per image. With the focus stacking technique, you shoot just one stack of images and then the software allows you to view from any angle, and do other interesting things as well.

I'd love to attach a video but haven't figured out how to do it. Anyone know? It would be a .mov file.

The_Dinosaur_Man

Ditto on the incredible! I recommend you do similar images for the 1981-S Type 1 and Type 2 mintmarks. Your imagery would go a long way in helping others identify the variety properly.

silviosi

What software you use behind? I need for my studies and the new book.

rmpsrpms

I use Helicon Focus, but Zerene Stacker is also very good. Many programs can do this these days, including Photoshop, but Helicon is more user-friendly and gives a good result without much fuss.

rmpsrpms

@The_Dinosaur_Man said:
Ditto on the incredible! I recommend you do similar images for the 1981-S Type 1 and Type 2 mintmarks. Your imagery would go a long way in helping others identify the variety properly.

I've done quite a few such studies using this technique. I worked with a forum member on LCF and we identified a mintmark that was used in the 40's but not again until the 70's. They were listed as two different MMs but after that study the references were changed.

I was also able to prove that a 1942 Pattern Cent was in fact a high-relief strike, the only one known for the Lincoln Cent series. To do these renderings, I need to take images at small increments, typically 10 micrometers. This gives me the ability to measure the heights of the features, and I was able to show that the Pattern Cent had higher relief than either the Business Strike or Proof from same year. That study was published in the Numismatist a few years back.

silviosi

When I was with Reserve Law Enforcement, I use for forensic Matrox platform, but now Is impossible for me to have new year licenses. I downloaded the Soft. I will try. Seem to be a perfect and the price is far better (10% of Matrox) Thank you very much I will keep you at the point for.

BStrauss3

@rmpsrpms said:
SEM technology has been around a long time, but with SEM you only get one view per image. With the focus stacking technique, you shoot just one stack of images and then the software allows you to view from any angle, and do other interesting things as well.

I'd love to attach a video but haven't figured out how to do it. Anyone know? It would be a .mov file.

HeliconSoft has some of their 3d depth map examples on their website... https://www.heliconsoft.com/helicon-3d-viewer-gallery/

ricko

@rmpsrpms... Those are incredible pictures... I recall the first image of a coin posted here on the forum... Members were amazed. Well... Now, 20+ years later, and we see these amazing pictures.... Soon to move on to the molecular level? Thanks very much for the pictures. Cheers, RickO

Tramp

@rmpsrpms said:
SEM technology has been around a long time, but with SEM you only get one view per image. With the focus stacking technique, you shoot just one stack of images and then the software allows you to view from any angle, and do other interesting things as well.

I'd love to attach a video but haven't figured out how to do it. Anyone know? It would be a .mov file.

YouTube and then link it here. Just a suggestion.

rmpsrpms

Looks like I can save as an animated gif and then upload to the forum.

OAKSTAR

That is just plan crazy stunningly brilliant @rmpsrpms!!! 👍🏻 👍🏻

rmpsrpms

@OAKSTAR said:
That is just plan crazy stunningly brilliant @rmpsrpms!!! 👍🏻 👍🏻

Thanks! These are a lot of fun.

I thought the one above was going to fill the screen width, but was too small, so I made a bigger one:

robec

Amazing Ray!! I love the work you’re doing and sharing. You’ve brought a whole new dimension of coin photography to our world. Thank you so much for all you’ve done.

Tramp

@rmpsrpms said:
Looks like I can save as an animated gif and then upload to the forum.

Nice photography! Yep! Just figured out the animated gif myself. Looks good!

SanctionII

Amazing photography and video presentation.

You are very talented and the end result of your coin photography/videography efforts is the enrichment of our favorite hobby.

What you have done and posted to the US Coin Forum reminds me of a video presentation I saw years ago that took the viewer on a journey through our Universe from the biggest (macro) to the smallest (micro).

If I remember correctly it went from a view showing countless galaxies populating the Universe to showing close ups of the smallest known particle. During the video the viewer went from seeing the countless galaxies, to a group of galaxies, to a single galaxy, to portions of a galaxy, to groups of stars, to a single star (our sun and the planets surrounding same), to the planets in our solar system, to the earth and moon, to the earth viewed from a distance, to the earth viewed closer, to a portion of the earth, to a continent, to a part of a continent, to a city, to a portion of a city, to a street, to a home on a street, to inside the home, to a person in the home, to a close up of the person, to a face, to an eye, and further down to the cellular, molecular, atomic, sub atomic, etc. level. (I recall the smallest thing currently known is a quark; whatever that is).

That video then reminded me of something I read about as a kid, namely that there is no end to what is the smallest and what is the biggest.

Our solar system (sun with planets orbiting it) mimics an atom (a nucleus with protons and electrons orbiting it).

Thus there is speculation that our solar system (and everything in it, including the earth and all living things on the earth [us included]) is simply one atom contained within something else (for example a chair at a dining room table in a home that is being sat on by my "other me" (while having breakfast) that exists in another bigger reality.

Further, since things present in our reality are made up of atoms (each of which is its own solar system, some of which have planets similar to earth which have developed life), within each of us there may be countless intelligent beings who have their own history of successes, failures, triumphs, tragedies, culture, love, etc.

Fun speculation about what is real and what may be real.

jesbroken

Nothing to say beyond what has already been said. I've watched several tutorial videos with Helicon Focus, but none with coins. Do you know of any tutorial videos with coins?
Thank you for a fantastic post and amazing results.
Jim

Meltdown

That is amazing!

rmpsrpms

Thanks all for the kind words.

@jesbroken, I don't know of any Helicon-specific tutorials related to coins. Several folks have asked if I'd do some videos, but that's just not my thing.

I don't think a lot of folks are doing 2D let alone 3D work with coins. Most of folks I see doing focus stacking are doing bugs, which is very cool. I am one of the only ones doing phono cartridges, though I've helped a few folks to put together systems to do that. I've also helped a few folks who are into die varieties (also my collecting specialty) with high mag work for attributions and listings, but most folks don't want to go through the trouble of shooting the stacks and doing the rendering. It takes a fair amount of time and effort to do this, but I find the results very enjoyable, and in some cases the value of the coin, or importance of a variety, makes it worth the effort.

ctf_error_coins

How many single images go into the 3D video rendering? Do you shoot all the images yourself or is it automated?

rmpsrpms

This stack was 24 images taken at approx 8um steps. I use a system with an automated rail capable of making steps with 625nm accuracy, so each of the steps is very close to 8um. It is possible to do this manually, but the mechanics to make accurate steps are pretty expensive, and it's very tedious. I started out that way but quickly moved to building-in automation. You can only do a few such stacks before you give up on it. With automation it's a hundred times easier.

I did post a similar system a while back with automated rail, see it here:

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1069039/new-coin-photography-setup-for-2022-focus-stacking-rig

ctf_error_coins

Thank you for your response.

I will not be trying this sounds intense.

I did 3D art prints years ago with a rail system and shot 7 photos for each subject and my partners software program stitched them together.

Some of my error coins have quite a bit of depth to them and would look cool using your process.

Shurke

This is some amazing stuff. Thanks for sharing it!

rmpsrpms

@ctf_error_coins said:
Thank you for your response.

I will not be trying this sounds intense.

I did 3D art prints years ago with a rail system and shot 7 photos for each subject and my partners software program stitched them together.

Some of my error coins have quite a bit of depth to them and would look cool using your process.

I didn't mean to discourage you. FYI, the 24 images only take about 1 minute to shoot, and the stacking software renders it in 2D in less than a minute. The 3D rendering is more involved since you need to adjust parameters to get the output you want, so figure 5 minutes for that. The output of the 3D software for the video is 96 images, and those need to be made into a gif. I use ezgif.com, and to upload the 96 images and then make the gif takes about 10 minutes. So from start to finish it takes about 20 minutes to make one of these videos, not a short time but worth it for some subjects.

Catbert

I know nothing about photography and your close up approach but I just wanted to thank you for contributing your expertise here. So very impressive.

JWP

This is really neat. I just wish there was a app that I can put on my phone and have the same effect to some degre.

jesbroken

This is utterly mind boggling. Never seen anything like this in my life. Hope you understand that with a simple "send me" request, you could start a very profitable business. Nothing like it that I know of. All companies start off somewhere. I recommend you go for it and start training people for the growth spurt that you will face. JMO
Jim