I still think Stroud's performance was more impressive because it was a true road game for the Buckeyes. And 2022 Georgia went Undefeated. 2021 Georgia did not. 2022 Georgia also had a top ten defense.
Objectively Youngs performance was better against an objective;y better all time best defense. 5 first round defensive players then two more linebackers in the 3rd round. The first round was half of GAs defense and over 10 percent of the first round total. Thats just unheard of for a single team overall much less just one side of the ball. Both were true road games, the SEC championship in 2021 was in ATL.
Georgias defence was still elite this year, but people seem to be dismissing just how elite their 2021 defense was that gave up 153 points total in 15 games and 59 were to Young and Bama.
What a qb does in college is close to meaningless. Both played for elite college teams with great OL's and large talent to hand off to or throw to, so their stats are benefiting being in the right place. So what? Stroud has an NFL classic qb body (6'3", 218 lbs.), Young is too small (6'0", 195 lbs.). Small qb's that succeed as elite in the NFL are rare. This is why the Mahomes, Herberts, and Allens of the leagues are doing so well, when well, the small guys like Mayfield, are not......... You need to see over those 6'6" lineman to make a play, big qbs simply have better vision and usually better arms. I would draft Young in the lower rounds and make him prove it rather than invest a higher pick in him. But silly me, I only want to win SB's, NFL teams appear to have other priorities.
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
What a QB does against elite competition while not the end all be all, is far from meaningless. Youre right that both had great weapons in 2021, Youngs WRs core was average at best in 2022. There were a lot of true freshman that just werent ready and made a lot of bad routes and drops. He has 10 receivers with over 100 years and no WR with over 677 yards, only two had more than 444. He had to really spread the ball around to make up for it and didnt have a Harrison to bail him out on a play. Young was a two year starter at Bama, seeing over massive lineman is not an issue to him and hes proved it.
Mahomes and those guys arent good because of their height, theyre good because of their skill. Baker isnt bad because of his height, hes bad because he was drafted by the Browns who every QB theyve had for what 40 years now has been a bust. They were also the only team that thought he should have been an early first rounder much less 1st overall.
Most evaluators have Young over Stroud but it would appear Carolina has Stroud over Young. Frankly Young falling out of first would be the best thing that could happen to him. Whoever goes to the Panthers will likely be a bust. They traded away one of their best WRs and dont have a 1st or 2nd round pick next year. At least the Texans have all their picks and that would actually reunite Young with Michie who should be healthy to start the season.
There's really no guarantee these guys will be 1 2 though. Carolina and the Texans are almost certainly taking a QB but with AR and Levis being combine monsters one of them could do something stupid and take one of them first. Someone at some point is almost certainly going to take AR and Levis in the first round thinking they have a superstar everyone before missed
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
No surprise they have Young ahead of Stroud. ESPN owns the sec network and usually never have the BIG TEN players at #1.
Basebal12 says 'Young faced better competition.''
2022 top ten rated defenses:
Big Ten - 4
SEC - 1
Mississippi State beat Illinois
LSU made the B1G west champs Perdue look like children that didnt belong on the same field as them
Georgia beat Ohio State
Iowa only beat Kentucky is because Kentucky had an emergency 4th string QB. Levis opted out and once Leary announced he was transferring their their other QBs entered the portal as well leaving them with nothing. Even with that Iowas offense couldnt do anything and it was 2 pick 6s that decided the game
Of course the B1G has the top rated defenses, they have no offense in that conference outside of Ohio State and sometimes Michigan. Theres a reason multiple coaches were fired for incompetent offenses.
SEC has had the better head to head record for every decade since since the 1970s. The SEC won the 1980s/90s/2000s/2010s/and is winning the 2020s. The SEC has the most players in the pros over 100 more than the B1G. The B1G last produced a heisman in 2006, the SEC has had 8 since then.
13 of the last 17 national titles were from the SEC. 15 of those games included at least one sec team, and 3 of them had 2 sec teams. The B1G has only been to the final 4 times, all 4 were OSU. OSU won 1 when they played Oregon and got dominated by Bama/LSU/Florida in the other 3. The ACC won the other 3 titles putting them ahead of the B1G
If you go back to the start of the BCS in 1998:
SEC 15 Titles from 6 Teams: Bama, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, LSU
ACC 5 Titles from 3 Teams: Miami, Clemson, FSU
Big 12 2 Titles from 2 Teams: Oklahoma, Texas
Pac 12 2 Titles from 1 Team: USC
B1G 2 Titles from 1 Team: OSU
Yes the SEC is better and has been for decades head to head and has been absolutely domination college football as a whole for two decades now
It would be pointless to argue that the SEC isn't better than the Big 10 right now, overall that is probably true. The top teams in each conference aren't really that far apart. The important thing to remember is that these things tend to run in cycles and that since the teams try to avoid playing each other it's difficult to get a feel for who is best. Overall, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State and Michigan tend to have the most consistently good teams.
As for which conference is historically the best, that again is hard to determine since a check by me gives different numbers. The record that comes up most often shows the Big 10 vs. Sec at 94-87-7. If that is accurate it tells me that the Big 10 had been historically better than the SEC prior to around 2010 when the pendulum swung in the other direction.
@Maywood said:
It would be pointless to argue that the SEC isn't better than the Big 10 right now, overall that is probably true. The top teams in each conference aren't really that far apart. The important thing to remember is that these things tend to run in cycles and that since the teams try to avoid playing each other it's difficult to get a feel for who is best. Overall, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State and Michigan tend to have the most consistently good teams.
As for which conference is historically the best, that again is hard to determine since a check by me gives different numbers. The record that comes up most often shows the Big 10 vs. Sec at 94-87-7. If that is accurate it tells me that the Big 10 had been historically better than the SEC prior to around 2010 when the pendulum swung in the other direction.
Like I said, these things go in cycles.
Michigan is a historically good program but they really just got good again 2 years ago. Before that they only had 5 double digit wins in the last 16 which is pretty average. Harbaugh was on the verge of getting fired before that playoff appearance. Them and Penn State had some good years but overall have been pretty average over that time frame. Thankfully they seem to have woken up finally, it was getting boring with OSU having no competition. Would be nice if Nebraska another traditional power that has been dormant a long time could become relevant again. No one wants to watch Nebraska and Iowa just run draw plays at each other all day like the forward pass hasnt been invented yet
Overall the SEC is 104-70-2 in regular season games against the B1G and 65-35 in bowl games against them. By decade the SEC was 2-4 in the 1930s, 3-0 in the 1940s, 2-3 in the 50s, 4-3 in the 60s, 5-7 in the 70s, 17-5 in the 80s, 16-11 in the 90s, 18-15 in the 2000s, 29-17 in the 2010s, and 8-5 so far this decade. Those numbers dont include bowl games.
Also, Bama's OL averaged. 6'5" @ 315 lbs last year. I don't remember but a couple of batted passes.
FYI - I took those data directly from the ESPN player listings. We are talking NFL OL and DL, not college, and, where did I mention batted passes? Nope I did not. It is the overall shortness of guys like Young that give them a slightly less effective ability to complete the play so thus on average the taller qb's with the best skillsets will be better than the shorter qb's with the best skillsets. This has been bourne out in the NFL time and time again.
In either case, almost any qb taken in the draft is a total crapshoot. We have witnessed that for decades. Why take a short qb over a tall qb of equal skills (or nearly so)? The drafter is getting a less probability of success every time that is whom they choose (the short guy). Nevertheless, I hope Carolina perceives Young to be a better choice than Stroud so that the Tejanos can get the best qb in the draft.
I still think Stroud's performance was more impressive because it was a true road game for the Buckeyes. And 2022 Georgia went Undefeated. 2021 Georgia did not. 2022 Georgia also had a top ten defense.
Objectively Youngs performance was better against an objective;y better all time best defense. 5 first round defensive players then two more linebackers in the 3rd round. The first round was half of GAs defense and over 10 percent of the first round total. Thats just unheard of for a single team overall much less just one side of the ball. Both were true road games, the SEC championship in 2021 was in ATL.
Georgias defence was still elite this year, but people seem to be dismissing just how elite their 2021 defense was that gave up 153 points total in 15 games and 59 were to Young and Bama.
What a qb does in college is close to meaningless. Both played for elite college teams with great OL's and large talent to hand off to or throw to, so their stats are benefiting being in the right place. So what? Stroud has an NFL classic qb body (6'3", 218 lbs.), Young is too small (6'0", 195 lbs.). Small qb's that succeed as elite in the NFL are rare. This is why the Mahomes, Herberts, and Allens of the leagues are doing so well, when well, the small guys like Mayfield, are not......... You need to see over those 6'6" lineman to make a play, big qbs simply have better vision and usually better arms. I would draft Young in the lower rounds and make him prove it rather than invest a higher pick in him. But silly me, I only want to win SB's, NFL teams appear to have other priorities.
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
What a QB does against elite competition while not the end all be all, is far from meaningless. Youre right that both had great weapons in 2021, Youngs WRs core was average at best in 2022. There were a lot of true freshman that just werent ready and made a lot of bad routes and drops. He has 10 receivers with over 100 years and no WR with over 677 yards, only two had more than 444. He had to really spread the ball around to make up for it and didnt have a Harrison to bail him out on a play. Young was a two year starter at Bama, seeing over massive lineman is not an issue to him and hes proved it.
Mahomes and those guys arent good because of their height, theyre good because of their skill. Baker isnt bad because of his height, hes bad because he was drafted by the Browns who every QB theyve had for what 40 years now has been a bust. They were also the only team that thought he should have been an early first rounder much less 1st overall.
Most evaluators have Young over Stroud but it would appear Carolina has Stroud over Young. Frankly Young falling out of first would be the best thing that could happen to him. Whoever goes to the Panthers will likely be a bust. They traded away one of their best WRs and dont have a 1st or 2nd round pick next year. At least the Texans have all their picks and that would actually reunite Young with Michie who should be healthy to start the season.
There's really no guarantee these guys will be 1 2 though. Carolina and the Texans are almost certainly taking a QB but with AR and Levis being combine monsters one of them could do something stupid and take one of them first. Someone at some point is almost certainly going to take AR and Levis in the first round thinking they have a superstar everyone before missed
For the most part, college performance is meaningless when taking a great college qb and inserting them into the NFL. If not, why do the Baker Mayfields exist more than the Patrick Mahomes? Or the Akili Smith's who excelled in Oregon and got drafted right at the top only to flop in the NFL - one of 100s of examples of high draft picks at the qb position that failed vs. the few that have become elite. Getting the right qb that can become elite is a total crapshoot, that is why I am going to pick the big one with likely better vision and bigger arm every time to increase my chances of getting that elite qb. Too bad if Carolina likes Stroud over Young, his size means he has a better chance of succeeding than Young simply bc of size. I want the Tejanos to get Stroud.
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
No surprise they have Young ahead of Stroud. ESPN owns the sec network and usually never have the BIG TEN players at #1.
Basebal12 says 'Young faced better competition.''
2022 top ten rated defenses:
Big Ten - 4
SEC - 1
Herbert, Mahomes, Allen, faced lower rated defenses than those in the SEC or Big 10 in the Pac 12, Big 12, and MWC, so the quality of the D they face might not be the only part of the equation. But if Stroud faced tougher D overall, that might be a factor in his scouting reports and how he is evaluated. Thanks for sharing that.
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
No surprise they have Young ahead of Stroud. ESPN owns the sec network and usually never have the BIG TEN players at #1.
Basebal12 says 'Young faced better competition.''
2022 top ten rated defenses:
Big Ten - 4
SEC - 1
Herbert, Mahomes, Allen, faced lower rated defenses than those in the SEC or Big 10 in the Pac 12, Big 12, and MWC, so the quality of the D they face might not be the only part of the equation. But if Stroud faced tougher D overall, that might be a factor in his scouting reports and how he is evaluated. Thanks for sharing that.
Stroud didnt face tougher defenses, he just played in a weaker conference that is allergic to offense. His conference games were Rutgers who won their first conference game in years and is god awful, Northwestern who along with Colorado were the two worst power 5 schools in all of college football, Wisconsin, losing record Michigan State, horrible Indiana, Maryland, Iowa who was the worst power 5 offense in football, Penn State and Michigan.
He played two actual games with Michigan and Penn State and they lost one of them
I still think Stroud's performance was more impressive because it was a true road game for the Buckeyes. And 2022 Georgia went Undefeated. 2021 Georgia did not. 2022 Georgia also had a top ten defense.
Objectively Youngs performance was better against an objective;y better all time best defense. 5 first round defensive players then two more linebackers in the 3rd round. The first round was half of GAs defense and over 10 percent of the first round total. Thats just unheard of for a single team overall much less just one side of the ball. Both were true road games, the SEC championship in 2021 was in ATL.
Georgias defence was still elite this year, but people seem to be dismissing just how elite their 2021 defense was that gave up 153 points total in 15 games and 59 were to Young and Bama.
What a qb does in college is close to meaningless. Both played for elite college teams with great OL's and large talent to hand off to or throw to, so their stats are benefiting being in the right place. So what? Stroud has an NFL classic qb body (6'3", 218 lbs.), Young is too small (6'0", 195 lbs.). Small qb's that succeed as elite in the NFL are rare. This is why the Mahomes, Herberts, and Allens of the leagues are doing so well, when well, the small guys like Mayfield, are not......... You need to see over those 6'6" lineman to make a play, big qbs simply have better vision and usually better arms. I would draft Young in the lower rounds and make him prove it rather than invest a higher pick in him. But silly me, I only want to win SB's, NFL teams appear to have other priorities.
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
What a QB does against elite competition while not the end all be all, is far from meaningless. Youre right that both had great weapons in 2021, Youngs WRs core was average at best in 2022. There were a lot of true freshman that just werent ready and made a lot of bad routes and drops. He has 10 receivers with over 100 years and no WR with over 677 yards, only two had more than 444. He had to really spread the ball around to make up for it and didnt have a Harrison to bail him out on a play. Young was a two year starter at Bama, seeing over massive lineman is not an issue to him and hes proved it.
Mahomes and those guys arent good because of their height, theyre good because of their skill. Baker isnt bad because of his height, hes bad because he was drafted by the Browns who every QB theyve had for what 40 years now has been a bust. They were also the only team that thought he should have been an early first rounder much less 1st overall.
Most evaluators have Young over Stroud but it would appear Carolina has Stroud over Young. Frankly Young falling out of first would be the best thing that could happen to him. Whoever goes to the Panthers will likely be a bust. They traded away one of their best WRs and dont have a 1st or 2nd round pick next year. At least the Texans have all their picks and that would actually reunite Young with Michie who should be healthy to start the season.
There's really no guarantee these guys will be 1 2 though. Carolina and the Texans are almost certainly taking a QB but with AR and Levis being combine monsters one of them could do something stupid and take one of them first. Someone at some point is almost certainly going to take AR and Levis in the first round thinking they have a superstar everyone before missed
For the most part, college performance is meaningless when taking a great college qb and inserting them into the NFL. If not, why do the Baker Mayfields exist more than the Patrick Mahomes? Or the Akili Smith's who excelled in Oregon and got drafted right at the top only to flop in the NFL - one of 100s of examples of high draft picks at the qb position that failed vs. the few that have become elite. Getting the right qb that can become elite is a total crapshoot, that is why I am going to pick the big one with likely better vision and bigger arm every time to increase my chances of getting that elite qb. Too bad if Carolina likes Stroud over Young, his size means he has a better chance of succeeding than Young simply bc of size. I want the Tejanos to get Stroud.
If you want to draft based off of just combine mesurables thats your choice, they Raiders did tthat forever. Combine mensurables and workout days are what lead the Browns to make a terrible decision no one else would have. Mahomes would have failed if the Browns drafted him as well just like every QB they draft, but simply being taller absolutely does not mean theres a better chance of succeeding.
Your pick should actually be AR15 if youre just drafting off of skill sets. Hes the same height, more muscle, faster, bigger arm. He held Florida back but if were drafting off just mesurables given his 40 was faster than Diggs and his vert higher than Metcalf, AR is the number one pick for people looking for mesurables
Interestingly, ESPN draft board has Young #1 and Stroud #3. I hope Carolina sees it that way so the Tejanos get Stroud.
No surprise they have Young ahead of Stroud. ESPN owns the sec network and usually never have the BIG TEN players at #1.
Basebal12 says 'Young faced better competition.''
He played two actual games with Michigan and Penn State and they lost one of them.
Stroud's two best wins in 2022 - Penn State, Notre Dame.
Young's two best wins, Kansas State, Mississippi State.
Stroud had better wins.
Lol Youngs wins were much better without having the best WR room in the country. Notre Dame had one good win with Clemson who just wasnt a good team because DJ and their OC loved losing games.
The B1G was just flat out an average conference last year theres no way around it. I do love the passion of the fandom of college fans but the numbers speak for themselves
@Basebal21 said:
Lol Youngs wins were much better without having the best WR room in the country. Notre Dame had one good win with Clemson who just wasnt a good team because DJ and their OC loved losing games.
The B1G was just flat out an average conference last year theres no way around it. I do love the passion of the fandom of college fans but the numbers speak for themselves
Hey there, go ahead and favor the smaller qb with a pretty close skill set to the bigger qb. You go... I for one will go for Stroud over Young every day given this for the reasons I state above. Hoping Carolina sees it your way............
@Basebal21 said:
Lol Youngs wins were much better without having the best WR room in the country. Notre Dame had one good win with Clemson who just wasnt a good team because DJ and their OC loved losing games.
The B1G was just flat out an average conference last year theres no way around it. I do love the passion of the fandom of college fans but the numbers speak for themselves
Hey there, go ahead and favor the smaller qb with a pretty close skill set to the bigger qb. You go... I for one will go for Stroud over Young every day given this for the reasons I state above. Hoping Carolina sees it your way............
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
@Basebal21 said:
Lol Youngs wins were much better without having the best WR room in the country. Notre Dame had one good win with Clemson who just wasnt a good team because DJ and their OC loved losing games.
The B1G was just flat out an average conference last year theres no way around it. I do love the passion of the fandom of college fans but the numbers speak for themselves
Hey there, go ahead and favor the smaller qb with a pretty close skill set to the bigger qb. You go... I for one will go for Stroud over Young every day given this for the reasons I state above. Hoping Carolina sees it your way............
AR should be your qb then.
Good point, but I am not sure he has a skill set to match Stroud, but we will see the order of the draft for them........
@Basebal21 said:
Lol Youngs wins were much better without having the best WR room in the country. Notre Dame had one good win with Clemson who just wasnt a good team because DJ and their OC loved losing games.
The B1G was just flat out an average conference last year theres no way around it. I do love the passion of the fandom of college fans but the numbers speak for themselves
Hey there, go ahead and favor the smaller qb with a pretty close skill set to the bigger qb. You go... I for one will go for Stroud over Young every day given this for the reasons I state above. Hoping Carolina sees it your way............
AR should be your qb then.
Good point, but I am not sure he has a skill set to match Stroud, but we will see the order of the draft for them........
AR doesnt have the onfield play to match either, but in terms of "skill set" and measurable he blows them all out of the water. He had over a 40 inch vertical, ran a 4.4 40, has a cannon, is the same height as Stroud. Hes a cant miss prospect as long as youve never seen him play, but if skill set and game tape is what were going by then he should be the unquestioned first pick
@Basebal21 said:
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
Yeah and they beat Auburn worse than Alabama did lol. WHO DID Alabama beat? You're too funny. Penn State are Rose Bowl champs as they destroyed a Conference champ. They were better than any sec team outside of Georgia.
@Basebal21 said:
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
Yeah and they beat Auburn worse than Alabama did lol. WHO DID Alabama beat? You're too funny. Penn State are Rose Bowl champs as they destroyed a Conference champ. They were better than any sec team outside of Georgia.
@Basebal21 said:
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
Yeah and they beat Auburn worse than Alabama did lol. WHO DID Alabama beat? You're too funny. Penn State are Rose Bowl champs as they destroyed a Conference champ. They were better than any sec team outside of Georgia.
@Basebal21 said:
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
Yeah and they beat Auburn worse than Alabama did lol. WHO DID Alabama beat? You're too funny. Penn State are Rose Bowl champs as they destroyed a Conference champ. They were better than any sec team outside of Georgia.
@Basebal21 said:
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
Yeah and they beat Auburn worse than Alabama did lol. WHO DID Alabama beat? You're too funny. Penn State are Rose Bowl champs as they destroyed a Conference champ. They were better than any sec team outside of Georgia.
If beating a PAC 12 team that was missing their star QB is the best win Penn State has thats just sad. The Pac 12 hasnt been relevant since Carrol left USC.
Bama beat Texas at Texas, dominated KSU, Beat Ole Miss, beat Auburn as well, beat Mississipi state Arksanas etc. All better wins than anything Penn State had aside from the shared Auburn win
Saying Penn State was better than any SEC team outside of Georgia is just lol. They would have been in the lower half if not bottom of the SEC
@Brick said:
I say it's time for the Buckeyes to leave the Big 10 {they have more than 10 anyway) and join the SEC.
Theyll never leave the B1G. Eventually Oregon and Washington will join the B1G, and at some point Clemson and FSU will join the SEC if they can figure out a way to get out of their ACC media deal which theyve been trying to find a way out of. Miami and Louisville might eventually join too and Colorado/ASU/Arizona/Utah will end up in the Big 12. Right now the Pac 12 is a couple weeks away from imploding if they cant get a TV deal which isnt looking good
@coolstanley said:
This is how goofy basebal21 is. He says,
Penn State's win over Utah isn't relevant.
But says in the same post that Bama's wins over lower ranked teams Kansas State, Texas, and Ole Miss are somehow relevant
Utah lost to Florida when they had their QB. Oregon was made to look like children by Georgia, USC lost to Tulane. The only teams the Pac 12 beat are each other. UCLA even lost to Pitt. If you have to argue for a PAC 12 Utah win as their best when Utah didnt even have a healthy QB that says everything
KSU was number 9 and the BIG 12 champion when Bama destroyed them. TCU dominated Michigan who lost to KSU in the BIG 12 championship.
If you think Penn State would be even close to the top of the SEC I dont know what to tell you other than I hope you actually went there for that kind of fandom
AR doesnt have the onfield play to match either, but in terms of "skill set" and measurable he blows them all out of the water. He had over a 40 inch vertical, ran a 4.4 40, has a cannon, is the same height as Stroud. Hes a cant miss prospect as long as youve never seen him play, but if skill set and game tape is what were going by then he should be the unquestioned first pick.
Richardson has really only one season to judge by, lousy completion percentage and he threw too many ints. IMO. But he is actually bigger than Stroud. Most rankings have him 3rd of 4th. The key to his evaluation is whether he has the smarts to transition into the NFL. There have been some very big athletically talented, college qb's that busted in the NFL, just like the short ones. As I said, the bigger ones have a tendancy to make it better than the smaller ones, but it still takes a brain and talent, even for the bigs. I still think overall Stroud has the best chance in this group.
AR doesnt have the onfield play to match either, but in terms of "skill set" and measurable he blows them all out of the water. He had over a 40 inch vertical, ran a 4.4 40, has a cannon, is the same height as Stroud. Hes a cant miss prospect as long as youve never seen him play, but if skill set and game tape is what were going by then he should be the unquestioned first pick.
Richardson has really only one season to judge by, lousy completion percentage and he threw too many ints. IMO. But he is actually bigger than Stroud. Most rankings have him 3rd of 4th. The key to his evaluation is whether he has the smarts to transition into the NFL. There have been some very big athletically talented, college qb's that busted in the NFL, just like the short ones. As I said, the bigger ones have a tendancy to make it better than the smaller ones, but it still takes a brain and talent, even for the bigs. I still think overall Stroud has the best chance in this group.
I dont disagree and by no means do I think AR is a first round QB. Id rather take Hooker in the 2nd or 3rd with people being worried about the knee than him, The point though was that he had the best measurables and we have multiple years of game tape on Young. The best thing that could happen to Young would be to fall and not end up in a bad Panthers situation. Its true that bigger ones have been better, but its also a fact that some of that is because teams take more chances and they get drafted more. Young is the best QB in this draft, but whoever Carolina takes I do believe will fail from the situation,
@coolstanley said:
This is how goofy basebal21 is. He says,
Penn State's win over Utah isn't relevant.
But says in the same post that Bama's wins over lower ranked teams Kansas State, Texas, and Ole Miss are somehow relevant
Utah lost to Florida when they had their QB. Oregon was made to look like children by Georgia, USC lost to Tulane. The only teams the Pac 12 beat are each other. UCLA even lost to Pitt. If you have to argue for a PAC 12 Utah win as their best when Utah didnt even have a healthy QB that says everything
>
The facts remain, Tennessee only beat Florida by 5 points in Tennessee. Utah lost by only 3 points on the road in FLORIDA.
UTAH finished in the top 10. None of the teams that Alabama beat finished top ten, therefore Penn State had a better win.
LOL 4 loss Utah that beat literally no one. No one that watches football legitimately believes Utah was 10. Their only wins were USC who couldnt even beat Tulane.
When will the B1G be relevant in football/basketball/baseball again aside from TV contracts? They are the top for hockey and wrestling
AR doesnt have the onfield play to match either, but in terms of "skill set" and measurable he blows them all out of the water. He had over a 40 inch vertical, ran a 4.4 40, has a cannon, is the same height as Stroud. Hes a cant miss prospect as long as youve never seen him play, but if skill set and game tape is what were going by then he should be the unquestioned first pick.
Richardson has really only one season to judge by, lousy completion percentage and he threw too many ints. IMO. But he is actually bigger than Stroud. Most rankings have him 3rd of 4th. The key to his evaluation is whether he has the smarts to transition into the NFL. There have been some very big athletically talented, college qb's that busted in the NFL, just like the short ones. As I said, the bigger ones have a tendancy to make it better than the smaller ones, but it still takes a brain and talent, even for the bigs. I still think overall Stroud has the best chance in this group.
I dont disagree and by no means do I think AR is a first round QB. Id rather take Hooker in the 2nd or 3rd with people being worried about the knee than him, The point though was that he had the best measurables and we have multiple years of game tape on Young. The best thing that could happen to Young would be to fall and not end up in a bad Panthers situation. Its true that bigger ones have been better, but its also a fact that some of that is because teams take more chances and they get drafted more. Young is the best QB in this draft, but whoever Carolina takes I do believe will fail from the situation,
Nah, have to disagree here, Stroud has the most potential at qb in this draft, without question, but even he is a risk. Young equates to a Kyler Murray, or a Baked out Mayfield, zero chance of being elite. Best 'bama qb in the last century is Tagovailoa and dude can't stay on the the field in the NFL, LOL......................
Carolina has a VG owner, it is a matter of time until the find they formula to be great, unlike the 'boys who have a management that guarantees a first round exit every year, but if they choose Young, then Carol is the red-hedded step child, LOL LOL LOL. Hope they do and Stroud falls to the Tejanos.
AR doesnt have the onfield play to match either, but in terms of "skill set" and measurable he blows them all out of the water. He had over a 40 inch vertical, ran a 4.4 40, has a cannon, is the same height as Stroud. Hes a cant miss prospect as long as youve never seen him play, but if skill set and game tape is what were going by then he should be the unquestioned first pick.
Richardson has really only one season to judge by, lousy completion percentage and he threw too many ints. IMO. But he is actually bigger than Stroud. Most rankings have him 3rd of 4th. The key to his evaluation is whether he has the smarts to transition into the NFL. There have been some very big athletically talented, college qb's that busted in the NFL, just like the short ones. As I said, the bigger ones have a tendancy to make it better than the smaller ones, but it still takes a brain and talent, even for the bigs. I still think overall Stroud has the best chance in this group.
I dont disagree and by no means do I think AR is a first round QB. Id rather take Hooker in the 2nd or 3rd with people being worried about the knee than him, The point though was that he had the best measurables and we have multiple years of game tape on Young. The best thing that could happen to Young would be to fall and not end up in a bad Panthers situation. Its true that bigger ones have been better, but its also a fact that some of that is because teams take more chances and they get drafted more. Young is the best QB in this draft, but whoever Carolina takes I do believe will fail from the situation,
Nah, have to disagree here, Stroud has the most potential at qb in this draft, without question, but even he is a risk. Young equates to a Kyler Murray, or a Baked out Mayfield, zero chance of being elite. Best 'bama qb in the last century is Tagovailoa and dude can't stay on the the field in the NFL, LOL......................
Carolina has a VG owner, it is a matter of time until the find they formula to be great, unlike the 'boys who have a management that guarantees a first round exit every year, but if they choose Young, then Carol is the red-hedded step child, LOL LOL LOL. Hope they do and Stroud falls to the Tejanos.
Saying Stroud has the most potential without question or that Young has zero chance of being elite is just flat out false and all the numbers say so.
Hurts is the current best QB from Bama, Tua with more talent but gets hurt. Teams change and adapt.
Using the school just okay? Troy Smith is the only OSU QB in NFL history to even be .500 at 4-4.. Kent Graham so far is the only one thats done anything and thats being generous. Him and Troy Smith are the only two OSU QBs to have more TDs than INTs. Justin Fields is their best QB aside from Gram and Fields numbers arent great. 17 TDs and 11 picks last year is hardly elite. OSU has never put an elite or even average QB in the pros to date if we just go off schools.
If beating a PAC 12 team that was missing their star QB is the best win Penn State has thats just sad. The Pac 12 hasnt been relevant since Carrol left USC.
Bama beat Texas at Texas,
Ironic that you would diss Penn State for beating a team missing their QB and then the first win you highlight for Alabama is over Texas - who was missing their QB.
If beating a PAC 12 team that was missing their star QB is the best win Penn State has thats just sad. The Pac 12 hasnt been relevant since Carrol left USC.
Bama beat Texas at Texas,
Ironic that you would diss Penn State for beating a team missing their QB and then the first win you highlight for Alabama is over Texas - who was missing their QB.
Ewiers played a lot of the game before getting hurt. That was also a road game in Texas. Utah lost to Florida a mid level SEC team, Oregon that looked like children against Georgia, and UCLA who lost to Oregon, Arizona, and USC before losing to Pitt. There were no good wins the in Pac 12 last year. Utahs only "legitimate" wins were USC who lost to Tulane. If PSU has to stake their season on a Utah win that is just simply not a good season
@Basebal21 said:
LOL 4 loss Utah that beat literally no one. No one that watches football legitimately believes Utah was 10. Their only wins were USC who couldnt even beat Tulane.
When will the B1G be relevant in football/basketball/baseball again aside from TV contracts? They are the top for hockey and wrestling
Big ten isn't relevant in football? Another ridiculous statement. They had two teams in the playoffs, and had just as many top ten teams as the sec. Probably would be national champs if not for the terrible non penalty against Georgia.
Using the school just okay? Troy Smith is the only OSU QB in NFL history to even be .500 at 4-4.. Kent Graham so far is the only one thats done anything and thats being generous. Him and Troy Smith are the only two OSU QBs to have more TDs than INTs. Justin Fields is their best QB aside from Gram and Fields numbers arent great. 17 TDs and 11 picks last year is hardly elite. OSU has never put an elite or even average QB in the pros to date if we just go off schools.
I guess you forgot to look up Joe Burrow's numbers.
Using the school just okay? Troy Smith is the only OSU QB in NFL history to even be .500 at 4-4.. Kent Graham so far is the only one thats done anything and thats being generous. Him and Troy Smith are the only two OSU QBs to have more TDs than INTs. Justin Fields is their best QB aside from Gram and Fields numbers arent great. 17 TDs and 11 picks last year is hardly elite. OSU has never put an elite or even average QB in the pros to date if we just go off schools.
I guess you forgot to look up Joe Burrow's numbers.
Joe Borrow is LSU. He threw 39 passes at OSU before graduating and transferring. Him transferring just shows how bad OSU has been at spotting QB talent and trying to claim him as OSU just makes it even worse
@Basebal21 said:
LOL 4 loss Utah that beat literally no one. No one that watches football legitimately believes Utah was 10. Their only wins were USC who couldnt even beat Tulane.
When will the B1G be relevant in football/basketball/baseball again aside from TV contracts? They are the top for hockey and wrestling
Big ten isn't relevant in football? Another ridiculous statement. They had two teams in the playoffs, and had just as many top ten teams as the sec. Probably would be national champs if not for the terrible non penalty against Georgia.
Michigan and OSU both lost. Michigan lost in the first round in 2021 as well. The B1G hasnt won a title in almost a decade, the ACC has more titles than the B1G does in that time.
--- Joe Burrow is LSU who transferred from Ohio State.
--- Jalen Hurts is Oklahoma who transferred from Alabama.
I get that @Basebal21 seems to just dislike the Buckeyes and adores Alabama but the reasoning is faulty here.
--- Jalen Hurts was a proven QB at Alabama but Nick Saban dumped him like a bad habit. Was Saban just stupid and didn't realize his talent??
--- Joe Burrow was unproven at Ohio State and listed 2nd on the depth chart when he broke a bone in his throwing hand in August of 2017. That moved him to 3rd at QB and he chose to transfer the next spring. It had nothing to do with Ohio State being bad at "spotting QB talent" or anything else. Was Urban Meyer stupid for not starting an injured player??
The Head Coaches make choices about what their players can do, they don't have the ability to know what they might do in the future. Both Alabama and Ohio made a choice which worked for their team. If Jalen Hurts was the better QB for Alabama at the time, Saban would have used him. If Joe Burrow was the better QB for Ohio State than Urban Meyer would have used him(if he was even healthy and available to play).
It should be a tribute to both players how they persevered and not a criticism of the Head Coaches or teams that they chose to transfer.
@Bullsitter said: Ummmmm....I don't think that's how it happened.
Well, that's as reasoned a way to look at it as anything else. When he was benched at half-time and Tagovailoa became the hero there's no way of knowing what Hurts would have done, just as there's no way of knowing what Tua may have done when he got the hook the next year and Hurts was the hero. My thinking is that Hurts or Tua was destined to transfer and Hurts moved because he had no assurances he'd start at Alabama. That's what it's all about with the transfer portal now, everyone sees themselves as a starter even when they aren't, so they move. That's why Burrow moved, he more than likely got reassured that he'd start at LSU.
As I posted earlier in the College Football thread, the transfer portal has become the way to build a National Champion and the days of the best recruiting Head Coaches of incoming Freshmen are fading away. Now those HC's can recruit from other NCAA teams after players have developed and are in their third year.
All the above is true but Saban didn't dump him. Hurts was considering Miami and maybe Maryland, I think. He talked to Saban and Saban suggested looking at Oklahoma because of Riley and the talent that would be surrounding him. Saban loves Jalen.
@Maywood said:
--- Joe Burrow is LSU who transferred from Ohio State.
--- Jalen Hurts is Oklahoma who transferred from Alabama.
I get that @Basebal21 seems to just dislike the Buckeyes and adores Alabama but the reasoning is faulty here.
--- Jalen Hurts was a proven QB at Alabama but Nick Saban dumped him like a bad habit. Was Saban just stupid and didn't realize his talent??
--- Joe Burrow was unproven at Ohio State and listed 2nd on the depth chart when he broke a bone in his throwing hand in August of 2017. That moved him to 3rd at QB and he chose to transfer the next spring. It had nothing to do with Ohio State being bad at "spotting QB talent" or anything else. Was Urban Meyer stupid for not starting an injured player??
The Head Coaches make choices about what their players can do, they don't have the ability to know what they might do in the future. Both Alabama and Ohio made a choice which worked for their team. If Jalen Hurts was the better QB for Alabama at the time, Saban would have used him. If Joe Burrow was the better QB for Ohio State than Urban Meyer would have used him(if he was even healthy and available to play).
It should be a tribute to both players how they persevered and not a criticism of the Head Coaches or teams that they chose to transfer.
Actually it had everything to do with OSU being bad at spotting talent. If you know what Borrow is you dont allow him to leave once he graduated to go play as LSU. He threw 39 passes at OSU, he threw more than that in multiple games at LSU including the year he had the greatest season ever as a college QB.
Whats next claiming Jameson Williams as OSU because he caught 15 passes in two years there before transferring to Alabama and becoming the 12th overall pick?
As far as Hurts he actually played at Bama, He completed over 400 passes in a 3 year career there which is more than he did at Oaklahoma. He wasnt dropped, Tua just ended up beating him out and there were in a weird spot where they would keep replacing each other back and forth., Hurts also lead a comeback for the SEC title. Far different situation than Burrow riding the bench at OSU.
Ryan Day simple has done less with more than most coaches in the country. He has boosters giving guys like Ewers a million dollars (who also left after taking the money for a year) and still cant get over the hump. That was an already built ready to win program when he took over and now he cant even beat Michigan anymore. Ryan Days first year was the first year Borrow was at LSU.
If beating a PAC 12 team that was missing their star QB is the best win Penn State has thats just sad. The Pac 12 hasnt been relevant since Carrol left USC.
Bama beat Texas at Texas,
Ironic that you would diss Penn State for beating a team missing their QB and then the first win you highlight for Alabama is over Texas - who was missing their QB.
Ewiers played a lot of the game before getting hurt. That was also a road game in Texas.
If beating a PAC 12 team that was missing their star QB is the best win Penn State has thats just sad. The Pac 12 hasnt been relevant since Carrol left USC.
Bama beat Texas at Texas,
Ironic that you would diss Penn State for beating a team missing their QB and then the first win you highlight for Alabama is over Texas - who was missing their QB.
Ewiers played a lot of the game before getting hurt. That was also a road game in Texas.
He played less than half the game.
He took a hit that was the result of Alabama defense and replaced by a former starter. They also still had arguably the best RB in football with Bijan
Comments
What a QB does against elite competition while not the end all be all, is far from meaningless. Youre right that both had great weapons in 2021, Youngs WRs core was average at best in 2022. There were a lot of true freshman that just werent ready and made a lot of bad routes and drops. He has 10 receivers with over 100 years and no WR with over 677 yards, only two had more than 444. He had to really spread the ball around to make up for it and didnt have a Harrison to bail him out on a play. Young was a two year starter at Bama, seeing over massive lineman is not an issue to him and hes proved it.
Mahomes and those guys arent good because of their height, theyre good because of their skill. Baker isnt bad because of his height, hes bad because he was drafted by the Browns who every QB theyve had for what 40 years now has been a bust. They were also the only team that thought he should have been an early first rounder much less 1st overall.
Most evaluators have Young over Stroud but it would appear Carolina has Stroud over Young. Frankly Young falling out of first would be the best thing that could happen to him. Whoever goes to the Panthers will likely be a bust. They traded away one of their best WRs and dont have a 1st or 2nd round pick next year. At least the Texans have all their picks and that would actually reunite Young with Michie who should be healthy to start the season.
There's really no guarantee these guys will be 1 2 though. Carolina and the Texans are almost certainly taking a QB but with AR and Levis being combine monsters one of them could do something stupid and take one of them first. Someone at some point is almost certainly going to take AR and Levis in the first round thinking they have a superstar everyone before missed
No surprise they have Young ahead of Stroud. ESPN owns the sec network and usually never have the BIG TEN players at #1.
Basebal12 says 'Young faced better competition.''
2022 top ten rated defenses:
Big Ten - 4
SEC - 1
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
5'10 1/8th dont cheat him lol. > @coolstanley said:
Mississippi State beat Illinois
LSU made the B1G west champs Perdue look like children that didnt belong on the same field as them
Georgia beat Ohio State
Iowa only beat Kentucky is because Kentucky had an emergency 4th string QB. Levis opted out and once Leary announced he was transferring their their other QBs entered the portal as well leaving them with nothing. Even with that Iowas offense couldnt do anything and it was 2 pick 6s that decided the game
Of course the B1G has the top rated defenses, they have no offense in that conference outside of Ohio State and sometimes Michigan. Theres a reason multiple coaches were fired for incompetent offenses.
SEC has had the better head to head record for every decade since since the 1970s. The SEC won the 1980s/90s/2000s/2010s/and is winning the 2020s. The SEC has the most players in the pros over 100 more than the B1G. The B1G last produced a heisman in 2006, the SEC has had 8 since then.
13 of the last 17 national titles were from the SEC. 15 of those games included at least one sec team, and 3 of them had 2 sec teams. The B1G has only been to the final 4 times, all 4 were OSU. OSU won 1 when they played Oregon and got dominated by Bama/LSU/Florida in the other 3. The ACC won the other 3 titles putting them ahead of the B1G
If you go back to the start of the BCS in 1998:
SEC 15 Titles from 6 Teams: Bama, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn, LSU
ACC 5 Titles from 3 Teams: Miami, Clemson, FSU
Big 12 2 Titles from 2 Teams: Oklahoma, Texas
Pac 12 2 Titles from 1 Team: USC
B1G 2 Titles from 1 Team: OSU
Yes the SEC is better and has been for decades head to head and has been absolutely domination college football as a whole for two decades now
It would be pointless to argue that the SEC isn't better than the Big 10 right now, overall that is probably true. The top teams in each conference aren't really that far apart. The important thing to remember is that these things tend to run in cycles and that since the teams try to avoid playing each other it's difficult to get a feel for who is best. Overall, Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State and Michigan tend to have the most consistently good teams.
As for which conference is historically the best, that again is hard to determine since a check by me gives different numbers. The record that comes up most often shows the Big 10 vs. Sec at 94-87-7. If that is accurate it tells me that the Big 10 had been historically better than the SEC prior to around 2010 when the pendulum swung in the other direction.
Like I said, these things go in cycles.
Michigan is a historically good program but they really just got good again 2 years ago. Before that they only had 5 double digit wins in the last 16 which is pretty average. Harbaugh was on the verge of getting fired before that playoff appearance. Them and Penn State had some good years but overall have been pretty average over that time frame. Thankfully they seem to have woken up finally, it was getting boring with OSU having no competition. Would be nice if Nebraska another traditional power that has been dormant a long time could become relevant again. No one wants to watch Nebraska and Iowa just run draw plays at each other all day like the forward pass hasnt been invented yet
Overall the SEC is 104-70-2 in regular season games against the B1G and 65-35 in bowl games against them. By decade the SEC was 2-4 in the 1930s, 3-0 in the 1940s, 2-3 in the 50s, 4-3 in the 60s, 5-7 in the 70s, 17-5 in the 80s, 16-11 in the 90s, 18-15 in the 2000s, 29-17 in the 2010s, and 8-5 so far this decade. Those numbers dont include bowl games.
FYI - I took those data directly from the ESPN player listings. We are talking NFL OL and DL, not college, and, where did I mention batted passes? Nope I did not. It is the overall shortness of guys like Young that give them a slightly less effective ability to complete the play so thus on average the taller qb's with the best skillsets will be better than the shorter qb's with the best skillsets. This has been bourne out in the NFL time and time again.
In either case, almost any qb taken in the draft is a total crapshoot. We have witnessed that for decades. Why take a short qb over a tall qb of equal skills (or nearly so)? The drafter is getting a less probability of success every time that is whom they choose (the short guy). Nevertheless, I hope Carolina perceives Young to be a better choice than Stroud so that the Tejanos can get the best qb in the draft.
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For the most part, college performance is meaningless when taking a great college qb and inserting them into the NFL. If not, why do the Baker Mayfields exist more than the Patrick Mahomes? Or the Akili Smith's who excelled in Oregon and got drafted right at the top only to flop in the NFL - one of 100s of examples of high draft picks at the qb position that failed vs. the few that have become elite. Getting the right qb that can become elite is a total crapshoot, that is why I am going to pick the big one with likely better vision and bigger arm every time to increase my chances of getting that elite qb. Too bad if Carolina likes Stroud over Young, his size means he has a better chance of succeeding than Young simply bc of size. I want the Tejanos to get Stroud.
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Herbert, Mahomes, Allen, faced lower rated defenses than those in the SEC or Big 10 in the Pac 12, Big 12, and MWC, so the quality of the D they face might not be the only part of the equation. But if Stroud faced tougher D overall, that might be a factor in his scouting reports and how he is evaluated. Thanks for sharing that.
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Stroud didnt face tougher defenses, he just played in a weaker conference that is allergic to offense. His conference games were Rutgers who won their first conference game in years and is god awful, Northwestern who along with Colorado were the two worst power 5 schools in all of college football, Wisconsin, losing record Michigan State, horrible Indiana, Maryland, Iowa who was the worst power 5 offense in football, Penn State and Michigan.
He played two actual games with Michigan and Penn State and they lost one of them
If you want to draft based off of just combine mesurables thats your choice, they Raiders did tthat forever. Combine mensurables and workout days are what lead the Browns to make a terrible decision no one else would have. Mahomes would have failed if the Browns drafted him as well just like every QB they draft, but simply being taller absolutely does not mean theres a better chance of succeeding.
Your pick should actually be AR15 if youre just drafting off of skill sets. Hes the same height, more muscle, faster, bigger arm. He held Florida back but if were drafting off just mesurables given his 40 was faster than Diggs and his vert higher than Metcalf, AR is the number one pick for people looking for mesurables
Stroud's two best wins in 2022 - Penn State, Notre Dame.
Young's two best wins, Kansas State, Mississippi State.
Stroud had better wins.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Lol Youngs wins were much better without having the best WR room in the country. Notre Dame had one good win with Clemson who just wasnt a good team because DJ and their OC loved losing games.
The B1G was just flat out an average conference last year theres no way around it. I do love the passion of the fandom of college fans but the numbers speak for themselves
Hey there, go ahead and favor the smaller qb with a pretty close skill set to the bigger qb. You go... I for one will go for Stroud over Young every day given this for the reasons I state above. Hoping Carolina sees it your way............
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AR should be your qb then.
I left it out to see if it would be brought up, but are we just going to ignore Penn States best win was a bottom of the SEC Auburn? Can we stop pretending beating Penn State in 2022 meant anything
Good point, but I am not sure he has a skill set to match Stroud, but we will see the order of the draft for them........
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AR doesnt have the onfield play to match either, but in terms of "skill set" and measurable he blows them all out of the water. He had over a 40 inch vertical, ran a 4.4 40, has a cannon, is the same height as Stroud. Hes a cant miss prospect as long as youve never seen him play, but if skill set and game tape is what were going by then he should be the unquestioned first pick
Yeah and they beat Auburn worse than Alabama did lol. WHO DID Alabama beat? You're too funny. Penn State are Rose Bowl champs as they destroyed a Conference champ. They were better than any sec team outside of Georgia.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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.
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Michigan beat OSU
TCU beat Michigan
KSU beat TCU
Bama beat KSU.......just sayin'.....
TCU also beat KSU. They played twice. According to the final AP rankings, Penn State had a win over a top ten team. Bama did not.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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.
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I say it's time for the Buckeyes to leave the Big 10 {they have more than 10 anyway) and join the SEC.
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Ralph
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Ain't no way.......it's tooooooooo cold up there.....
We'd freeze our biscuits off.
If beating a PAC 12 team that was missing their star QB is the best win Penn State has thats just sad. The Pac 12 hasnt been relevant since Carrol left USC.
Bama beat Texas at Texas, dominated KSU, Beat Ole Miss, beat Auburn as well, beat Mississipi state Arksanas etc. All better wins than anything Penn State had aside from the shared Auburn win
Saying Penn State was better than any SEC team outside of Georgia is just lol. They would have been in the lower half if not bottom of the SEC
Theyll never leave the B1G. Eventually Oregon and Washington will join the B1G, and at some point Clemson and FSU will join the SEC if they can figure out a way to get out of their ACC media deal which theyve been trying to find a way out of. Miami and Louisville might eventually join too and Colorado/ASU/Arizona/Utah will end up in the Big 12. Right now the Pac 12 is a couple weeks away from imploding if they cant get a TV deal which isnt looking good
This is how goofy basebal21 is. He says,
Penn State's win over Utah isn't relevant.
But says in the same post that Bama's wins over lower ranked teams Kansas State, Texas, and Ole Miss are somehow relevant
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Utah lost to Florida when they had their QB. Oregon was made to look like children by Georgia, USC lost to Tulane. The only teams the Pac 12 beat are each other. UCLA even lost to Pitt. If you have to argue for a PAC 12 Utah win as their best when Utah didnt even have a healthy QB that says everything
KSU was number 9 and the BIG 12 champion when Bama destroyed them. TCU dominated Michigan who lost to KSU in the BIG 12 championship.
If you think Penn State would be even close to the top of the SEC I dont know what to tell you other than I hope you actually went there for that kind of fandom
Richardson has really only one season to judge by, lousy completion percentage and he threw too many ints. IMO. But he is actually bigger than Stroud. Most rankings have him 3rd of 4th. The key to his evaluation is whether he has the smarts to transition into the NFL. There have been some very big athletically talented, college qb's that busted in the NFL, just like the short ones. As I said, the bigger ones have a tendancy to make it better than the smaller ones, but it still takes a brain and talent, even for the bigs. I still think overall Stroud has the best chance in this group.
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I dont disagree and by no means do I think AR is a first round QB. Id rather take Hooker in the 2nd or 3rd with people being worried about the knee than him, The point though was that he had the best measurables and we have multiple years of game tape on Young. The best thing that could happen to Young would be to fall and not end up in a bad Panthers situation. Its true that bigger ones have been better, but its also a fact that some of that is because teams take more chances and they get drafted more. Young is the best QB in this draft, but whoever Carolina takes I do believe will fail from the situation,
>
The facts remain, Tennessee only beat Florida by 5 points in Tennessee. Utah lost by only 3 points on the road in FLORIDA.
UTAH finished in the top 10. None of the teams that Alabama beat finished top ten, therefore Penn State had a better win.
Time to take your sec glasses off.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
LOL 4 loss Utah that beat literally no one. No one that watches football legitimately believes Utah was 10. Their only wins were USC who couldnt even beat Tulane.
When will the B1G be relevant in football/basketball/baseball again aside from TV contracts? They are the top for hockey and wrestling
I'll end this inane banter by saying that I bet my father could'a beat your father.
If we're going to turn this into a juvenile insult contest let me just say, " Your mom wears combat boots."
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Ralph
It just hit me as I hit Post Comment. With women flying fighter jets, going into combat zones, etc. That really isn't an insult anymore.
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Ralph
Nah, have to disagree here, Stroud has the most potential at qb in this draft, without question, but even he is a risk. Young equates to a Kyler Murray, or a Baked out Mayfield, zero chance of being elite. Best 'bama qb in the last century is Tagovailoa and dude can't stay on the the field in the NFL, LOL......................
Carolina has a VG owner, it is a matter of time until the find they formula to be great, unlike the 'boys who have a management that guarantees a first round exit every year, but if they choose Young, then Carol is the red-hedded step child, LOL LOL LOL. Hope they do and Stroud falls to the Tejanos.
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Saying Stroud has the most potential without question or that Young has zero chance of being elite is just flat out false and all the numbers say so.
Hurts is the current best QB from Bama, Tua with more talent but gets hurt. Teams change and adapt.
Using the school just okay? Troy Smith is the only OSU QB in NFL history to even be .500 at 4-4.. Kent Graham so far is the only one thats done anything and thats being generous. Him and Troy Smith are the only two OSU QBs to have more TDs than INTs. Justin Fields is their best QB aside from Gram and Fields numbers arent great. 17 TDs and 11 picks last year is hardly elite. OSU has never put an elite or even average QB in the pros to date if we just go off schools.
Ironic that you would diss Penn State for beating a team missing their QB and then the first win you highlight for Alabama is over Texas - who was missing their QB.
Ewiers played a lot of the game before getting hurt. That was also a road game in Texas. Utah lost to Florida a mid level SEC team, Oregon that looked like children against Georgia, and UCLA who lost to Oregon, Arizona, and USC before losing to Pitt. There were no good wins the in Pac 12 last year. Utahs only "legitimate" wins were USC who lost to Tulane. If PSU has to stake their season on a Utah win that is just simply not a good season
Big ten isn't relevant in football? Another ridiculous statement. They had two teams in the playoffs, and had just as many top ten teams as the sec. Probably would be national champs if not for the terrible non penalty against Georgia.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I guess you forgot to look up Joe Burrow's numbers.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Joe Borrow is LSU. He threw 39 passes at OSU before graduating and transferring. Him transferring just shows how bad OSU has been at spotting QB talent and trying to claim him as OSU just makes it even worse
Michigan and OSU both lost. Michigan lost in the first round in 2021 as well. The B1G hasnt won a title in almost a decade, the ACC has more titles than the B1G does in that time.
double post
--- Joe Burrow is LSU who transferred from Ohio State.
--- Jalen Hurts is Oklahoma who transferred from Alabama.
I get that @Basebal21 seems to just dislike the Buckeyes and adores Alabama but the reasoning is faulty here.
--- Jalen Hurts was a proven QB at Alabama but Nick Saban dumped him like a bad habit. Was Saban just stupid and didn't realize his talent??
--- Joe Burrow was unproven at Ohio State and listed 2nd on the depth chart when he broke a bone in his throwing hand in August of 2017. That moved him to 3rd at QB and he chose to transfer the next spring. It had nothing to do with Ohio State being bad at "spotting QB talent" or anything else. Was Urban Meyer stupid for not starting an injured player??
The Head Coaches make choices about what their players can do, they don't have the ability to know what they might do in the future. Both Alabama and Ohio made a choice which worked for their team. If Jalen Hurts was the better QB for Alabama at the time, Saban would have used him. If Joe Burrow was the better QB for Ohio State than Urban Meyer would have used him(if he was even healthy and available to play).
It should be a tribute to both players how they persevered and not a criticism of the Head Coaches or teams that they chose to transfer.
Jalen Hurts was a proven QB at Alabama but Nick Saban dumped him like a bad habit.
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Ummmmm....I don't think that's how it happened.
@Bullsitter said: Ummmmm....I don't think that's how it happened.
Well, that's as reasoned a way to look at it as anything else. When he was benched at half-time and Tagovailoa became the hero there's no way of knowing what Hurts would have done, just as there's no way of knowing what Tua may have done when he got the hook the next year and Hurts was the hero. My thinking is that Hurts or Tua was destined to transfer and Hurts moved because he had no assurances he'd start at Alabama. That's what it's all about with the transfer portal now, everyone sees themselves as a starter even when they aren't, so they move. That's why Burrow moved, he more than likely got reassured that he'd start at LSU.
As I posted earlier in the College Football thread, the transfer portal has become the way to build a National Champion and the days of the best recruiting Head Coaches of incoming Freshmen are fading away. Now those HC's can recruit from other NCAA teams after players have developed and are in their third year.
All the above is true but Saban didn't dump him. Hurts was considering Miami and maybe Maryland, I think. He talked to Saban and Saban suggested looking at Oklahoma because of Riley and the talent that would be surrounding him. Saban loves Jalen.
Actually it had everything to do with OSU being bad at spotting talent. If you know what Borrow is you dont allow him to leave once he graduated to go play as LSU. He threw 39 passes at OSU, he threw more than that in multiple games at LSU including the year he had the greatest season ever as a college QB.
Whats next claiming Jameson Williams as OSU because he caught 15 passes in two years there before transferring to Alabama and becoming the 12th overall pick?
As far as Hurts he actually played at Bama, He completed over 400 passes in a 3 year career there which is more than he did at Oaklahoma. He wasnt dropped, Tua just ended up beating him out and there were in a weird spot where they would keep replacing each other back and forth., Hurts also lead a comeback for the SEC title. Far different situation than Burrow riding the bench at OSU.
Ryan Day simple has done less with more than most coaches in the country. He has boosters giving guys like Ewers a million dollars (who also left after taking the money for a year) and still cant get over the hump. That was an already built ready to win program when he took over and now he cant even beat Michigan anymore. Ryan Days first year was the first year Borrow was at LSU.
He played less than half the game.
He took a hit that was the result of Alabama defense and replaced by a former starter. They also still had arguably the best RB in football with Bijan