Here's one, complete with the reeded edge, but it's not exactly an "original coin" with the gold plating.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
How is it possible for a 175 year old silver coin without any toning to be original? I like it a lot but I would assume it's been dipped at least one during its long history. It may be blasphemy to say it, but I think originality is overrated. I've seen too many original coins with dark blotchy toning that are just plain ugly.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I believe these two (1819 & 1856) to be "original" but lightly circulated
By comparison, I believe this 1825 to have been cleaned at some point but has retoned over the years... note the orange/pink shiney spot at the top of the hair... There's also a rim hit at star 8. I'll likely upgrade this one at some point, but I'm only into it for ~$40 and it's a tougher date to find nice in the Middle Date run of Large Cents...
Edited for clarity...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
Those lines don’t look random to me. They are all parallel with a slight curve and look how I would expect (and have seen) a harshly cleaned coin to look.
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
Sorry about that photo, didn’t notice. In hand the coin is much better, I just took it at a peculiar angle to help get rid of the shadow.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
It looks more like it's been wiped with a cloth.
Maybe, I’ll try to get better photos when I get home.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
It looks more like it's been wiped with a cloth.
The only visible scratches are the ones behind the bust.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Although I don’t think this coin would be considered harshly cleaned, I guess it was worked on with a substance like baking soda at some point and then wiped with a cloth. Because of that I think it would get a details grade, Still an important piece of history.
Edited to add: in addition to the color, in the second photo, the area above the date strongly suggests a cleaning.
How is it possible for a 175 year old silver coin without any toning to be original? I like it a lot but I would assume it's been dipped at least one during its long history. It may be blasphemy to say it, but I think originality is overrated. I've seen too many original coins with dark blotchy toning that are just plain ugly.
Well it came out of an AU 55 PCGS slab, go figure.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
How is it possible for a 175 year old silver coin without any toning to be original? I like it a lot but I would assume it's been dipped at least one during its long history. It may be blasphemy to say it, but I think originality is overrated. I've seen too many original coins with dark blotchy toning that are just plain ugly.
Well it came out of an AU 55 PCGS slab, go figure.
The fact that the coin was in an AU55 holder doesn’t provide any assurance that it hasn’t been dipped.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How is it possible for a 175 year old silver coin without any toning to be original? I like it a lot but I would assume it's been dipped at least one during its long history. It may be blasphemy to say it, but I think originality is overrated. I've seen too many original coins with dark blotchy toning that are just plain ugly.
Well it came out of an AU 55 PCGS slab, go figure.
The major grading services routinely slab coins that have been dipped and give them a straight grade. A coin in a major grading service slab with a straight grade isn't always a coin with original surfaces.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
It looks more like it's been wiped with a cloth.
The only visible scratches are the ones behind the bust.
Don’t look for deep scratches, you’re looking for patches of very light hairlines that can only be seen at a certain angle with harsh lighting. The first picture you posted shows them better. If a coin has hairlines, you want them to be random and going in all directions, not parallel across both the fields and devices. Not to be confused with die polish lines on a mint state coin, which also can be parallel.
@DeplorableDan said:
Don’t look for deep scratches, you’re looking for patches of very light hairlines that can only be seen at a certain angle with harsh lighting. The first picture you posted shows them better. If a coin has hairlines, you want them to be random and going in all directions, not parallel across both the fields and devices. Not to be confused with die polish lines on a mint state coin, which also can be parallel.
Ugh, time to open the safe again!
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
@MFeld said:
Considering the thread title ("Please post a completely original raw coin") there sure have been a lot of unoriginal-looking coins posted.
I agree. I think the majority are not original.
Maybe we need another thread where we explore this more - I think posters who would be willing to share coins would need to have some some thick skin.
@Bob13 suggested "Maybe we need another thread where we explore this more - I think posters who would be willing to share coins would need to have some some thick skin."
We could start in this thread, but only for people who volunteer to have their posted coin assessed. We could ask others to judge whether the coin is question (a) should be considered original, (b) should not be called original, but would still straight grade, and (c) would not straight grade.
I'd be happy to submit my circulated Oregon posted above for assessment!
@Tonedeaf said:
I would like to know if this may be an original surface.
I will try to get better pictures if requested.
My guess is yes.
Thank you for that. I bought this coin around 30 years ago. I thought that I knew something about coins back then, it is clear that I didn't. I have many coins, all raw, that have issues, some minor some major. I still like them all.
I lurked at 3 sites before I decided to join here. I have learned a lot in a week, but I still know very little relatively. All 3 sites are good. I joined this site because it seems to have a great group of people with a vast amount of experience and knowledge and are very willing to share. The people that I have interacted with have helped me quite a bit and I am grateful for that. I haven't read every post here but I haven't read a post that I thought was malicious in intent. People here seem to mean well. I look forward to learning more and sharing what I can. I have posted a couple of coins that others stated they would not have bought. It's ok, I don't take any offense to that.
Tonedeaf is a nickname given to me in reference to my guitar playing ability.
@MFeld said:
Considering the thread title ("Please post a completely original raw coin") there sure have been a lot of unoriginal-looking coins posted.
I agree. I think the majority are not original.
Maybe we need another thread where we explore this more - I think posters who would be willing to share coins would need to have some some thick skin.
Or vote, with categories like Probably Original, Might be Original, and NFW…..
Heck... I've got pretty thick skin, and I'm a teacher by profession these days... so let's have a teaching moment.
Here's an ebay purchase I made when I was expanding my Late Date Large Cent run. As some of you may know... I'm sort of a sucker for Grellman attribution cards because: 1- I'm just starting out with Attributions and I suck at it; and 2- I use them as a teaching tool to see what the expert sees. There are some other EAC collectors that write notes on their cards too and it's mostly very useful information. Here is one of my 1848's that came with a card. I bought it because I wanted to see what the "light cleaning" looked like because I didn't really see it from the seller's images. The second set of images were taken with my previous (sub-optimal) photographic set-up but it better reflects the breaks in color that netted this coin down 5 points...
Seller's Images
My images:
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
The majority of my collection of USA coins has not been encapsulated. Therefore, I cannot be absolutely sure they have never been cleaned. However, these are some which in my opinion, have never been touched.
(My apologies if I more than the one requested..... )
@dunkleosteus430 said:
I'd like to know if these are original. I'm still learning what unaltered surfaces look like.
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2.
3.
4.
Based on the images, the Seated Quarter is the only coin that I might not describe as original looking. The lighter areas in the right obverse field and above and below portions of the date look as if they might be the result of light cleaning or wiping. But I stress the word "might".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Eddi said:
The majority of my collection of USA coins has not been encapsulated. Therefore, I cannot be absolutely sure they have never been cleaned. However, these are some which in my opinion, have never been touched.
(My apologies if I more than the one requested..... )
Even if all of your coins were encapsulated, that wouldn't mean they hadn't been cleaned. The grading companies will award straight grades to coins that have been dipped or cleaned, as long as they find it to be market acceptable.
If you're up for it, let's try a guessing game...I think four of your posted coins are more convincing than the others with respect to originality. Which four do you think those might be?
And I welcome anyone else to participate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld: “And I welcome anyone else to participate.”
I freely confess it is not an easy exercise for me. May I clarify the rules of the game? Are trying to guess which four MFeld thinks have a good chance of straight grading? From this perspective it’s easy to eliminate the chain cent.
I freely confess it is not an easy exercise for me. May I clarify the rules of the game? Are trying to guess which four MFeld thinks have a good chance of straight grading? From this perspective it’s easy to eliminate the chain cent.
There are no rules.
Four of the coins posted by @Eddi stood out to me as more likely original than the others. I was asking him and anyone else who cared to, to guess which ones they are. Or for that matter, for anyone to comment on any of the coins. I wasn't asking about which ones were more likely to straight grade, but again, there are no rules.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Here's one, complete with the reeded edge, but it's not exactly an "original coin" with the gold plating.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
From the roll that I just opened:
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
ntx
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
How is it possible for a 175 year old silver coin without any toning to be original? I like it a lot but I would assume it's been dipped at least one during its long history. It may be blasphemy to say it, but I think originality is overrated. I've seen too many original coins with dark blotchy toning that are just plain ugly.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I believe these two (1819 & 1856) to be "original" but lightly circulated
By comparison, I believe this 1825 to have been cleaned at some point but has retoned over the years... note the orange/pink shiney spot at the top of the hair... There's also a rim hit at star 8. I'll likely upgrade this one at some point, but I'm only into it for ~$40 and it's a tougher date to find nice in the Middle Date run of Large Cents...
Edited for clarity...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I say this to educate as I don’t like to be negative - do you see the cleaning lines that cover the entire obverse of that bust half?
1963d Silver Dime found in change
List of Coins for sale at link (no photos)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RvQQV4TSsEi3U4WW8
Circulated coins will have numerous random hairlines as a result of extended normal circulation. When viewed under a strong halogen or incandescent lamp and tilted at the right angle, these hairlines can show up and really stand out. The coin in question probably looks a lot different when viewed in hand under ambient lighting. Judging by the dirt in the devices (especially the date area), I would say this coin probably hasn't been cleaned but it would need to be examined in hand to make a final judgement.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Photo's by CHD about 10 years ago.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Those lines don’t look random to me. They are all parallel with a slight curve and look how I would expect (and have seen) a harshly cleaned coin to look.
My only Seated Liberty Dime, an 1859.
Sorry about that photo, didn’t notice. In hand the coin is much better, I just took it at a peculiar angle to help get rid of the shadow.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Considering the thread title ("Please post a completely original raw coin") there sure have been a lot of unoriginal-looking coins posted.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think this 96-S is how an original VF should look like, in an LOC album.
...
It looks more like it's been wiped with a cloth.
Maybe, I’ll try to get better photos when I get home.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
The only visible scratches are the ones behind the bust.
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
Although I don’t think this coin would be considered harshly cleaned, I guess it was worked on with a substance like baking soda at some point and then wiped with a cloth. Because of that I think it would get a details grade, Still an important piece of history.
Edited to add: in addition to the color, in the second photo, the area above the date strongly suggests a cleaning.
Well it came out of an AU 55 PCGS slab, go figure.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
The fact that the coin was in an AU55 holder doesn’t provide any assurance that it hasn’t been dipped.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The major grading services routinely slab coins that have been dipped and give them a straight grade. A coin in a major grading service slab with a straight grade isn't always a coin with original surfaces.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Don’t look for deep scratches, you’re looking for patches of very light hairlines that can only be seen at a certain angle with harsh lighting. The first picture you posted shows them better. If a coin has hairlines, you want them to be random and going in all directions, not parallel across both the fields and devices. Not to be confused with die polish lines on a mint state coin, which also can be parallel.
Founder- Peak Rarities
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Facebook
Ugh, time to open the safe again!
Type collector, mainly into Seated. -formerly Ownerofawheatiehorde. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON, Gerard
I agree. I think the majority are not original.
Maybe we need another thread where we explore this more - I think posters who would be willing to share coins would need to have some some thick skin.
My current "Box of 20"
@Bob13 suggested "Maybe we need another thread where we explore this more - I think posters who would be willing to share coins would need to have some some thick skin."
We could start in this thread, but only for people who volunteer to have their posted coin assessed. We could ask others to judge whether the coin is question (a) should be considered original, (b) should not be called original, but would still straight grade, and (c) would not straight grade.
I'd be happy to submit my circulated Oregon posted above for assessment!
This one is about as original as they come. S/S also
Upon what do you base that assertion?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would like to know if this may be an original surface.
I will try to get better pictures if requested.
Tonedeaf is a nickname given to me in reference to my guitar playing ability.
My guess is yes.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thank you for that. I bought this coin around 30 years ago. I thought that I knew something about coins back then, it is clear that I didn't. I have many coins, all raw, that have issues, some minor some major. I still like them all.
I lurked at 3 sites before I decided to join here. I have learned a lot in a week, but I still know very little relatively. All 3 sites are good. I joined this site because it seems to have a great group of people with a vast amount of experience and knowledge and are very willing to share. The people that I have interacted with have helped me quite a bit and I am grateful for that. I haven't read every post here but I haven't read a post that I thought was malicious in intent. People here seem to mean well. I look forward to learning more and sharing what I can. I have posted a couple of coins that others stated they would not have bought. It's ok, I don't take any offense to that.
Tonedeaf is a nickname given to me in reference to my guitar playing ability.
Or vote, with categories like Probably Original, Might be Original, and NFW…..
Heck... I've got pretty thick skin, and I'm a teacher by profession these days... so let's have a teaching moment.
Here's an ebay purchase I made when I was expanding my Late Date Large Cent run. As some of you may know... I'm sort of a sucker for Grellman attribution cards because: 1- I'm just starting out with Attributions and I suck at it; and 2- I use them as a teaching tool to see what the expert sees. There are some other EAC collectors that write notes on their cards too and it's mostly very useful information. Here is one of my 1848's that came with a card. I bought it because I wanted to see what the "light cleaning" looked like because I didn't really see it from the seller's images. The second set of images were taken with my previous (sub-optimal) photographic set-up but it better reflects the breaks in color that netted this coin down 5 points...
Seller's Images
My images:
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I'd like to know if these are original. I'm still learning what unaltered surfaces look like.
1.
2.
3.
4.
Young Numismatist
The majority of my collection of USA coins has not been encapsulated. Therefore, I cannot be absolutely sure they have never been cleaned. However, these are some which in my opinion, have never been touched.
(My apologies if I more than the one requested.....
)
Based on the images, the Seated Quarter is the only coin that I might not describe as original looking. The lighter areas in the right obverse field and above and below portions of the date look as if they might be the result of light cleaning or wiping. But I stress the word "might".
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Even if all of your coins were encapsulated, that wouldn't mean they hadn't been cleaned. The grading companies will award straight grades to coins that have been dipped or cleaned, as long as they find it to be market acceptable.
If you're up for it, let's try a guessing game...I think four of your posted coins are more convincing than the others with respect to originality. Which four do you think those might be?
And I welcome anyone else to participate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
@MFeld: “And I welcome anyone else to participate.”
I freely confess it is not an easy exercise for me. May I clarify the rules of the game? Are trying to guess which four MFeld thinks have a good chance of straight grading? From this perspective it’s easy to eliminate the chain cent.
There are no rules.
Four of the coins posted by @Eddi stood out to me as more likely original than the others. I was asking him and anyone else who cared to, to guess which ones they are. Or for that matter, for anyone to comment on any of the coins. I wasn't asking about which ones were more likely to straight grade, but again, there are no rules.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@mfeld @Eddi I’m your huckleberry.
I think every coin shown would get a straight grade and I like them all! This was a review of originality only and not eye appeal or desireability.
@scubafuel: thanks for a very precise analysis!
Even though the chain cent may be original, it seems like the corrosion is too severe to allow a straight geade?
Thanks very much and I'll comment on the coins late this afternoon or this evening.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.