Counterstamped Coins and TPG Grading - What "makes the grade" (and what doesn't)?

NeophyteNumismatist

I like old, original counterstamps on coins. I do not own any, but I find them interesting, as they help tell the narrative of commerce and those that held the coin in the past.

What I cannot understand is why some coins that are counterstamped are straight graded, while others get a details grade for the counterstamp. Do they need to be recognized Brunk examples? I have also seen Trade Dollars with chop marks in straight or details grades. The reason for details on the label is the counter stamp/chop mark, so it is not that the coin has another ailment (cleaning, environmental damage) that is driving the details grade.

To confuse me event further, I came across the coin below on eBay (not my coin). This coin is straight graded VF25 by our hosts, but lower on the label it says "AU Details".

lermish

I can't speak for the counterstamps although I am a bit surprised to see the above.

Trade dollars do NOT get details grades solely due to chopmarks at PCGS. ATS they are all details. If you see a PCGS holdered, chopped Trade Dollar in a details holder it means there is some additional issue (cleaning, env damage, etc)

NeophyteNumismatist

Thanks @lermish . I didn't understand the discrepancy between the TPGs.

lilolme

On the OP coin as I understand it the grade for the coin is VF25.
Then there is a grade for the counter stamp as AU details (C/S - AU details).

Check the cert it is VF25.

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/45823812

lermish

Now that I think of it, I have seen some graded counterstamps where there is a separate grade for the host and the stamp itself. Most that I recall are world coins (usually 8 reales but my memory can be faulty).

I also vaguely recall a counterstamp for a coin club or something on a US host coin with the same grading set-up as above but can't place it at the moment.

JBK

@lermish said:
Now that I think of it, I have seen some graded counterstamps where there is a separate grade for the host and the stamp itself. Most that I recall are world coins (usually 8 reales but my memory can be faulty).

I also vaguely recall a counterstamp for a coin club or something on a US host coin with the same grading set-up as above but can't place it at the moment.

Most likely one of the Western Reserve Coin Club issues. They were quite prolific.

ricko

My 1874CC Trade Dollar is graded XF45 PCGS, and labeled Chop Mark. Straight grade. Cheers, RickO

jayPem

I was looking at the OP coin and wondering about it also..
IiRC, NGC commonly gives seperate grades to the coin and the stamp,
Not sure if Pcgs has been doing this all along?

burfle23

Interesting! I don't send CMs to PCGS but have submitted a few to NGC; I am actually working on a low grade countermarked early large cent collection; 2 of the tough ones are the 1793 and 1804:

jayPem

@burfle23 , I've been playing around with an inexpensive, early set of stamped large cent also.
Id have to say though, the 1804 isn't as tough as some folks think 😅

Joking aside, those are some cool early dates!

Maywood

It may simply be due to when the coin was graded and the fact that PCGS changed how they grade counterstamps. In the case of the OP coin, it may have been originally slabbed as the insert appears and then re-holdered where it would be in a new holder with the old insert.

Most likely one of the Western Reserve Coin Club issues.

I had NGC grade some of those on Cleveland Commems 20 years ago and it was a straight grade, recently had PCGS do the same on a Commem and Morgan Dollar and they were straight graded