Counterfeit 16-D Mercury Dime in Counterfeit PCGS Slab?

Shurke

I could be wrong, so feel free to correct me, but this one raised some red flags when I saw it on eBay this morning.

Auction link

Coin looks VF30-35 to me, though the label is only F15. Also, the mint mark looks wrong.

ifthevamzarockin

Yes, it's a counterfeit.

MFeld

Good catch. Below is a link to the sale of the genuine example with the same ID number. I found it by going to the PCGS cert verification page, which showed the previous auction sale of the coin. Reported and seller notified.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dimes/1916-d-10c-fine-15-pcgs/a/1138-683.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

LJenkins11

Looks like it's also a bit under graded, maybe they should've added a counterfeit gold CAC!

dsessom

That's a definite fake. As Mark pointed out, it sold at Heritage in March 2010 and here is the real one;

dsessom

I contacted the seller at 11:10am (Central time) and let them know the coin is a counterfeit. Hopefully, they will pull the auction.

telephoto1

Reported. Shanghai special. We actually had one of these pop into the shop a few weeks ago. I should have imaged it for posterity. I wonder if it was the same cert #. Bet it was.

ifthevamzarockin

Looks like the seller ended the listing.

Shurke

Thanks for reporting and getting it pulled, everyone.

BuffaloIronTail

@MFeld said:
Good catch. Below is a link to the sale of the genuine example with the same ID number. I found it by going to the PCGS cert verification page, which showed the previous auction sale of the coin. Reported and seller notified.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dimes/1916-d-10c-fine-15-pcgs/a/1138-683.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

Good job, Mark. You signed, sealed, and delivered the explanation.

Pete

rec78

@Shurke said:
Thanks for reporting and getting it pulled, everyone.

These kinds of threads help everyone-keep it up.

ricko

Nice work getting it pulled.... Now we watch for the next appearance....Cheers, RickO

Ike1964

The label was the first thing that caught me as being off. And the coin was definitely better than F15. By the time I saw it, it was pulled.

mr1931S

A good example of why submitters should go for PCGS Gold Shield with NFC anti-counterfeiting technology, especially for key date coins. Maybe auction house should require consignor of PCGS graded key coins to get their slabbed keys upgraded to Gold Shield before accepting for auction?

ifthevamzarockin

@mr1874 "A good example of why submitters should go for PCGS Gold Shield with NFC anti-counterfeiting technology, especially for key date coins."

Do you realize the overseas counterfeiters are using Gold Shield labels on some slabs?
While they do not have the NFC chip in them I'm not sure how you would check that from a photo online.

"Maybe auction house should require consignor of PCGS graded key coins to get their slabbed keys upgraded to Gold Shield before accepting for auction?"

The listing posted by the OP was an ebay listing so I'm not sure how it applies to auction houses.
Or are you saying everyone that wants to list a PCGS coin on ebay must get their coins reholderd in a Gold Shield?

mr1931S

@ifthevamzarockin said:
@mr1874 "A good example of why submitters should go for PCGS Gold Shield with NFC anti-counterfeiting technology, especially for key date coins."

Do you realize the overseas counterfeiters are using Gold Shield labels on some slabs?
While they do not have the NFC chip in them I'm not sure how you would check that from a photo online.

"Maybe auction house should require consignor of PCGS graded key coins to get their slabbed keys upgraded to Gold Shield before accepting for auction?"

The listing posted by the OP was an ebay listing so I'm not sure how it applies to auction houses.
Or are you saying everyone that wants to list a PCGS coin on ebay must get their coins reholderd in a Gold Shield?

Ebay is not a real auction house, in my opinion. Ebay is more like a flea market. They certainly aren't the police. Commonly counterfeited pieces like '16-D dimes, '09-S VDB pennies,etc. should be in anti-counterfeit holder before auction house deals with it. That's my opinion. Auction house could offer the reslabbing they consider necessary as a service to the consignor. No reslabbie, no sellie.

The problem really is with a counterfeit slab, who has to pay the money lost by the person holding the counterfeit slab at the end of the day? Gold Shield with NFC solves that problem is the way I see it. Gold Shield with NFC anti-counterfeiting technology screams, "Try to counterfeit this, dummy!" It's a great product and auction houses should get proactive on insisting that consignors get on board with them to help thwart counterfeiting.

ifthevamzarockin

@mr1874 Buy the coin not the holder!

Your fake coin was in a genuine holder, if that holder would have had a Gold Shield and NFC it would have been even harder to convince you that you bought a fake. Just because there is a little gold shield and a chip in the holder doesn't mean a grading company can't make a mistake. That is why you need to educate yourself about the coins you are buying. You bought the holder with your fake coin and look where it got you.

mr1931S

@ifthevamzarockin said:
@mr1874 Buy the coin not the holder!

Your fake coin was in a genuine holder, if that holder would have had a Gold Shield and NFC it would have been even harder to convince you that you bought a fake. Just because there is a little gold shield and a chip in the holder doesn't mean a grading company can't make a mistake. That is why you need to educate yourself about the coins you are buying. You bought the holder with your fake coin and look where it got you.

For the record, for those here who don't have the whole story, the whole picture, or who may have forgotten, my coin had a grade assigned to it in the holder. PCGS F15. Not simply designated "Genuine" as ifthevamzarockin is implying. The replacement coin from the dealer who unwittingly sold a counterfeit to me as a genuine mint product has the same grade, PCGS F15. And it has a Truview image. The counterfeit's PCGS # was removed from the verification database after it was established that indeed a mistake was made.

ifthevamzarockin

@mr1874 "Not simply designated "Genuine" as ifthevamzarockin is implying."

I never implied such a thing, the holder was a genuine PCGS holder it was not a counterfeit holder.
I never said it was a no grade coin marked as genuine.

Edited to add: please read again.
Your fake coin was in a genuine holder (not graded as genuine)

mr1931S

Thank you for the clarification. Now, maybe you can move on and contribute something of use to readers of this thread which is not about my fake 1909-S V.D.B. that landed in a genuine holder.

Zoins

@MFeld said:
Good catch. Below is a link to the sale of the genuine example with the same ID number. I found it by going to the PCGS cert verification page, which showed the previous auction sale of the coin. Reported and seller notified.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dimes/1916-d-10c-fine-15-pcgs/a/1138-683.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

Thanks Mark!

It's great to have archives and links to archives for photo research

mr1931S

@Zoins said:

@MFeld said:
Good catch. Below is a link to the sale of the genuine example with the same ID number. I found it by going to the PCGS cert verification page, which showed the previous auction sale of the coin. Reported and seller notified.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/mercury-dimes/1916-d-10c-fine-15-pcgs/a/1138-683.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0

Thanks Mark!

It's great to have archives and links to archives for photo research

Absolutely. And the picture archive of PCGS with the fantastic Truview images is second to none!

silverpop

anything can be faked that is the world we live in no matter what one does makers of fake items are way ahead of anything we have to counter them as they already have that tech and found it's weak points

one has to use the most powerful thing they have called brains to avoid fakes and scams

Elcontador

I think my "Unc. 43 S copper" which is attracted to magnets is a better coin than that one.