How do I know 100% if a U.S. coin is real?

AntiqueCollector

Hey, so I'm new to the forums and let me start by introducing myself. I love collecting antiques. It's just such a cool, wholesome hobby. 2 days ago I touched a note written in a book I had from 1876. The other day, I found a picture from a girls book in 1946 of her boyfriend jumping an obstacle with his horse. It just feels good...it feels powerful. Anyway, I'm ranting. I'm mainly into coins which is why I'm introducing myself here. I think you guys will be seeing a lot of me! Hope to help some of you and also be helped

Anyway, I'm new to collecting coins. I've been browsing and buying on Ebay for a few weeks now. And I've come across, many many faked coins! If I get a gut feeling that something isn't right, I just don't bid. Period. OR mainly, if something looks way too clean and brand new, I just don't bid. I'd much rather pay a good price for a coin that has a little damage or wear to it, because it tells me in my head "this looks old and has the scars to prove it".

i was wondering if there was a good book you could recommend, or anything you could recommend to help me learn about how to tell if U.S. coins are real. Thanks!

ifthevamzarockin

Welcome to the forum!

You would be best off taking more time to learn more about coins before you start buying them.

gumby1234

There are many books available. For a broad area of coins maybe start with a book about counterfeits.

jmlanzaf

Honestly, you rarely know "100%" if it's real based on photos. You sometimes know 100% that it is fake. It's a long learning process that can also be fun.

While you're learning, you can minimize risk by only buying slabbed coins from known, reputable firms, at least for expensive coins. For cheap stuff... we call the mistakes "tuition" and we've all paid some.

Welcome.

lilolme

Welcome. I usually mention the Resources thread pinned to the top of the US forum. The first post in it has several links. The link to the Resources is below also. You can also do a search on specific topics, names... and see if any other threads appear although the search can be difficult at times (note after search there is a down arrow to open up more search limitations). There are also fake holders (with fake coins or real coins but at a lower grade) to be aware of and sites like eBay (and others) do have them. There are fake coins with wear and some very deceptive while others not as much so.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1006619/resources-books-links-to-read-on-numismatic-series-errors-and-varieties/p1

JW77

Being new to the hobby I would say it would be very difficult for you to know 100% whether a coin is not a fake. Best advice is 1) avoid EBAY until you are more experienced 2) only buy raw coins from a reputable dealer 3) buy coins already certified by PCGS or NGC, although be aware that slabs have been faked as well.

Steven59

Lots of reading articles, asking here for help, and comparing your coins to actual internet coins.

TomB

Howdy and welcome.

Just like antiques, you have to know what to look for, what you are looking at and use a critical eye. It becomes easier with experience and if you are specializing in a limited number of series then books written to those niche areas can help tremendously, as well. However, there is no centralized catalog or database where you may simply look up what counterfeits are out there. As always, be careful.

Good luck!

lilolme

Finally found this bookmark (need to organize). It is Burfle23 articles.

https://coinweek.com/author/jack-d-young/?fbclid=IwAR3jUPj5xCfcsAtW0CvStAJ3fsLXa8k-Jfc89f5C-aZxyDmCXZi_Js3Q8ho

PerryHall

The only way to know 100% that a coin is real is to be at the mint and watch them make it.

mr1931S

Take the time to learn what a quality coin looks like and be ready to pay up for it when you see that quality coin in a series you like. This principle holds true whether the coin that catches your eye is priced at $1, $10, $100, $1000, $10,000, or more. Avoid getting buried in junk and problem coins.

Never put your money on the line in a game you don't understand. Read books about coins. Learn from the experts. We've got a lot of 'em around here who are more than happy to answer your questions provided you come across as sincere, eager to learn. Trust your instincts. If it sounds too good to be true when contemplating a coin purchase, it is, 99.9% of the time, guaranteed.

Have fun with this amazing hobby we call coin collecting. Buy coins you can afford. Make every effort to make your coin purchase a careful and considered one.

Sapyx

Fake coins come in a broad spectrum of fakeness.

At one end, you have the fake coins that are so laughably, obviously fake that you'd like to think no-one could possibly be fooled by them. The Chinese fakes that were doing the rounds 20 years ago where "America" was spelled "Maaxico" come to mind here.

At the other end are the really, really good fakes. Made of the correct metal, with the right weight, using very very realistic-looking dies. Such fakes are fooling everyone - collectors, dealers, even the TPGs - and there are no doubt thousands of them out there in collections right now. We simply don't have the technology to detect such fakes, nor are we aware of the diagnostics to look out for.

Your best shield against buying a fake is to buy from established, reputable dealers that have an "eternal guarantee" - that if you ever discover a coin you bought off them is fake, even if that discovery happens 20 years in the future, they'll replace or refund it.

davewesen

there are also many videos on youtube to help you determine authenticity

AUandAG

I've focuses on Morgan Dollars for some 20 years now. I think I know what I'm buying with a good photo, or a good loupe look. However, I've been fooled. Bought an 1889cc in AU some ten years age. Got it and was excited and off it went to PCGS. Came back as added mintmarks. Dollar was real but certainly not what I paid for it. So, counterfeits are just part of the equation. People remove mint marks, add mint marks and such.
Still learning all these years later.
Any other denominations, cents, dimes, quarters, etc. and I would have no clue. Well, that's not quite true as I do have a great library that covers pretty much all US coins.
Good luck and Welcome,
bob

JW77

@Sapyx said:
Fake coins come in a broad spectrum of fakeness.

At the other end are the really, really good fakes. Made of the correct metal, with the right weight, using very very realistic-looking dies. Such fakes are fooling everyone - collectors, dealers, even the TPGs - and there are no doubt thousands of them out there in collections right now. We simply don't have the technology to detect such fakes, nor are we aware of the diagnostics to look out for.

I wonder if PCGS would take exception to this statement. I am taking an educated guess that maybe their technology and counterfeit detection techniques are just a littler stronger than your statement would suggest. However, I would expect that some counterfeits have found their way into a legitimate PCGs/NGC slab.

jesbroken

Hopefully, before buying anymore Ebay coins you will decide on a specific series and then obtain the proper books for that series and counterfeit recognition book. Study them and you still will not be 100%, doubtful anyone will ever be. Even the PCGS/NGC/ANACS graders have help if needed. Trust this statement, the counterfeiters are getting better and better. You will notice on this forum there will be several ebay coin discussions on just this subject. Read them and participate.
Now then, if you are just jumping at what hits you and no specific goals, I'm not sure what to tell you. Education is not cheap, especially the self taught educations. Suchas, buying a counterfeit with no return for what ever reason. Glad to have you on the forum and best of luck to you.
Jim

mr1931S

@PerryHall said:
The only way to know 100% that a coin is real is to be at the mint and watch them make it.

This is the gawd awful truth. Fake coin can show up in not fake third party graded slab. My first 1909-S V.D.B. penny was eventually determined to be a fake after I owned it for a few years thinking it was genuine. I had bought the piece in a TPG slab (authenticated as genuine by one of the big three third-party grading companies) from a well-respected dealer. Every now and then a fake gets by the graders.

ifthevamzarockin

@mr1874 said:
This is the gawd awful truth. Fake coin can show up in not fake third party graded slab. My first 1909-S V.D.B. penny was eventually determined to be a fake after I owned it for a few years thinking it was genuine. I had bought the piece in a TPG slab (authenticated as genuine by one of the big three third-party grading companies) from a well-respected dealer. Every now and then a fake gets by the graders.

Yeah, and you had to go on and on for months about how it was a special secret piece made by the mint director rather than listen to the folks here on the forum. Just like the people that come here with their Walmart parking lot find and insist it's a special one of a kind error.

jmlanzaf

@ifthevamzarockin said:

@mr1874 said:
This is the gawd awful truth. Fake coin can show up in not fake third party graded slab. My first 1909-S V.D.B. penny was eventually determined to be a fake after I owned it for a few years thinking it was genuine. I had bought the piece in a TPG slab (authenticated as genuine by one of the big three third-party grading companies) from a well-respected dealer. Every now and then a fake gets by the graders.

Yeah, and you had to go on and on for months about how it was a special secret piece made by the mint director rather than listen to the folks here on the forum. Just like the people that come here with their Walmart parking lot find and insist it's a special one of a kind error.

Oooo, I remember that. So it was determined to actually be fake after all that. That really is an excellent example of how difficult it is to get to "100%".

Fraz

Welcome. Looking at coins on eBay is good if it stimulates you to read about them. You get ideas how you want to specialize reading what folk do around here. The teachers are good.
Thank you for the intro; I note that it did not concern rarity and value—that makes a good impression.

ricko

@AntiqueCollector... Welcome aboard. Interesting introduction. I suggest the first book you get should be the Redbook (Whitman publishing)... available online or most bookstores. It covers all U.S. coins, with a wealth of information as well as grading. Also, for the most part, and for the first few years, stay away from buying raw coins. Buy slabbed coins by the top TPG's.
Ask questions here... Many of the leading coin experts are contributing members. Good luck, Cheers, RickO

MFeld

Welcome to the forum.

Your best protection against counterfeits is to become highly knowledgeable (which takes a lot of time) and to buy from established sellers with excellent, well deserved reputations.

87redcivic

I want to add that wear/damage doesn't necessarily mean that the coin is legit. Around 2005, I bought a Newfoundland 10 cent coin off of EBay. I was a new collector and it wasn't third party graded. It is a rare date and had a hole drilled in it. I got it for around $50. About 10 years after I bought it I had gotten more knowledge on how the denticles should look on a real coin and this one didn't look right. I did a ring test on it (essentially drop it from a small distance on a table and listen for the tone). It wasn't silver like it should have been.

mr1931S

@ifthevamzarockin said:

@mr1874 said:
This is the gawd awful truth. Fake coin can show up in not fake third party graded slab. My first 1909-S V.D.B. penny was eventually determined to be a fake after I owned it for a few years thinking it was genuine. I had bought the piece in a TPG slab (authenticated as genuine by one of the big three third-party grading companies) from a well-respected dealer. Every now and then a fake gets by the graders.

Yeah, and you had to go on and on for months about how it was a special secret piece made by the mint director rather than listen to the folks here on the forum. Just like the people that come here with their Walmart parking lot find and insist it's a special one of a kind error.

Give it up chief.

mr1931S

@jmlanzaf said:

@ifthevamzarockin said:

@mr1874 said:
This is the gawd awful truth. Fake coin can show up in not fake third party graded slab. My first 1909-S V.D.B. penny was eventually determined to be a fake after I owned it for a few years thinking it was genuine. I had bought the piece in a TPG slab (authenticated as genuine by one of the big three third-party grading companies) from a well-respected dealer. Every now and then a fake gets by the graders.

Yeah, and you had to go on and on for months about how it was a special secret piece made by the mint director rather than listen to the folks here on the forum. Just like the people that come here with their Walmart parking lot find and insist it's a special one of a kind error.

Oooo, I remember that. So it was determined to actually be fake after all that. That really is an excellent example of how difficult it is to get to "100%".

Determined CONCLUSIVELY to be fake by an expert at the highest level of the grading company not by a committee of self-appointed experts. I learned more than one valuable lesson from that experience and I hope others here learned from that adventure too. My understanding is that the fake piece, a well-executed counterfeit that fooled the graders/authenticators, is now being used as a teaching tool by the TPG. I even had a few buy offers for this historic piece, offers that I declined, for the simple reason that I will not knowingly sell a coin where authenticity is questionable, notwithstanding its having been "100% certified as genuine" by being in a slab when I bought it. I kinda wish I still had the piece but knowing it went to a good home and is now being used for honorable purposes is good enough for me.

ifthevamzarockin

@mr1874 "not by a committee of self-appointed experts."

So you are saying that some of the best experts in the world that are here on the forum are just self-appointed experts?

"a well-executed counterfeit"

It wasn't that well executed, it just fell through the cracks at PCGS.

"offers for this historic piece"

The only thing historic about it is what a historic fool you made of yourself here on the forum. You set the record for the longest Trollfest ever on the forum and the only reason you had offers to buy it was to shut you up!

"is now being used as a teaching tool by the TPG."

You have no way to establish this as a fact and there is a very good chance it was destroyed by the TPG.
You are stating this as a fact just like you were stating the mint director made it as a special piece.
Your firm insertion keeps you from seeing facts clearly.

Edited to add a comment from the historic Trollfest:
"maybe a bored mint worker decided to try his hand at modifying the V.D.B. and in doing so put HIS signature on a few SVDB's that made it into the channels of commerce."

rte592

Welcome.
It's always better to buy from a reputable company or with coin in hand if possible.

Sometimes you gamble on a bad picture (eBay example where you don't want to ask the seller questions about a certain coin) so as to not tip off other watchers.

mr1931S

@ifthevamzarockin said:
@mr1874 "not by a committee of self-appointed experts."

So you are saying that some of the best experts in the world that are here on the forum are just self-appointed experts?

"a well-executed counterfeit"

It wasn't that well executed, it just fell through the cracks at PCGS.

"offers for this historic piece"

The only thing historic about it is what a historic fool you made of yourself here on the forum. You set the record for the longest Trollfest ever on the forum and the only reason you had offers to buy it was to shut you up!

"is now being used as a teaching tool by the TPG."

You have no way to establish this as a fact and there is a very good chance it was destroyed by the TPG.
You are stating this as a fact just like you were stating the mint director made it as a special piece.
Your firm insertion keeps you from seeing facts clearly.

What do you mean by "firm insertion"?

I have it on good authority that my FIRM ASSERTION about the disposition of the piece as now being used as a teaching tool is exactly what has happened.

MWallace

@PerryHall said:
The only way to know 100% that a coin is real is to be at the mint and watch them make it.

First thing I thought of too. Only problem is that then no one else can know if it's real. You'd be the only one that knows for sure.

mr1931S

I recommend to the OP to read all you can about coins, especially about counterfeit coins and how they are made. Take Mr. Feld's advice and become as knowledgeable as you can about counterfeits. My advice is to obtain a copy of "How To Detect Altered & Counterfeit Coins and Paper Money" by Bert Harsche for your numismatic library and refer to it often. You want the 5th or 6th Edition of this ground-breaking work. Harsche was a pioneer in the business of detecting altered and counterfeit coins. Make no mistake, if the graders/authenticators at the TPG had studied Harsche, my 1909-S V.D.B., which was ultimately deemed a fake, would not have gotten into their TPG holder in the first place.

NeophyteNumismatist

I am no expert on counterfeit detection, but if you are used to looking at coins the obvious fakes will just look "off" in the fonts, dates, and overall level of details. The better fakes will have to be discovered by being able to attribute the variety of the coin - if you can't attribute it, chances are there is a problem.

The highest quality fakes are tough, and they have been known to make it into legitimate graded holders (however, be on the lookout for fake holders also). These coins will require you to identify consistent damage patterns across multiple coins. This occurs when the source coin has some damage that is replicated across the fake coins made from it. This means that if you see multiple coins with the EXACT damage pattern, chances are it is a fake.

If that seems like a LOT, you are right - it is. I am still learning, and there are some on these boards like @burfle23 who are true experts. I would pay a lot of attention to all of his threads and posts. I have learned more about counterfeiting in the past few months from @burfle23 than I have in the rest of my short collecting history combined.

But, I maintain that you have to look at a LOT of coins and know your varieties if you want to be good at counterfeit detection. Good luck!

ifthevamzarockin

@mr1874 said:
I recommend to the OP to read all you can about coins, especially about counterfeit coins and how they are made. Take Mr. Feld's advice and become as knowledgeable as you can about counterfeits. My advice is to obtain a copy of "How To Detect Altered & Counterfeit Coins and Paper Money" by Bert Harsche for your numismatic library and refer to it often. You want the 5th or 6th Edition of this ground-breaking work. Harsche was a pioneer in the business of detecting altered and counterfeit coins. Make no mistake, if the graders/authenticators at the TPG had studied Harsche, my 1909-S V.D.B., which was ultimately deemed a fake, would not gotten into their TPG holder in the first place.

Don't waste your money on this book! It didn't help @mr1874 figure out his coin was a counterfeit.

rte592

Maybe a better way to ask, How do I know if a US coin is questionable.
I have a gamble coming in with a 1914-D cent.
It's a good probability it's not real but didn't want to ask questions on eBay and let the other watchers/bidder know the results of my question.

mr1931S

@ifthevamzarockin said:

@mr1874 said:
I recommend to the OP to read all you can about coins, especially about counterfeit coins and how they are made. Take Mr. Feld's advice and become as knowledgeable as you can about counterfeits. My advice is to obtain a copy of "How To Detect Altered & Counterfeit Coins and Paper Money" by Bert Harsche for your numismatic library and refer to it often. You want the 5th or 6th Edition of this ground-breaking work. Harsche was a pioneer in the business of detecting altered and counterfeit coins. Make no mistake, if the graders/authenticators at the TPG had studied Harsche, my 1909-S V.D.B., which was ultimately deemed a fake, would not gotten into their TPG holder in the first place.

Don't waste your money on this book! It didn't help @mr1874 figure out his coin was a counterfeit.

Well, all you had to offer, as the committee ringleader, was an abundance of naysaying as I explored the possibilities here. The question to be answered was, "Could this piece be a 5th variety of 1909-S V.D.B. penny? And about the book not being helpful to me you are sorely mistaken. I figured out the method of manufacture of my fake S V.D.B. by a careful read of Mr. Harsche's book. My S V.D.B. fake was made using an old-school method, discussed by Harsche, that the new breed of authenticators have probably never heard of.

To the OP: Don't ever sell the old-school experts short. Bert Harsche is a legend in the area of counterfeit and altered coin detection. His book, 6th and last edition (1978), is a masterpiece and well worth acquiring. Another book worth considering acquiring for your reference library is Numismatic Forgery by Charles M. Larson.

burfle23

@rte592 said:
Maybe a better way to ask, How do I know if a US coin is questionable.
I have a gamble coming in with a 1914-D cent.
It's a good probability it's not real but didn't want to ask questions on eBay and let the other watchers/bidder know the results of my question.

Learn everything about the series or coins you intend to collect! In the case of the '14-D, learn the mm positions of a genuine one like the examples I posted (I use the created template for these):

The template approach also works well for the 1909-S VDB for folks willing to understand...

I actually wrote a Coin Week article on the fake TPG certified '09-S VDB which will be my 49th article on the subject of counterfeits when published by Coin Week.

So, never just trust the "slab" but learn to trust your eye, armed with the necessary info available on the internet, coin clubs and forums like this. One of the 1st times I set up with a display at a major coin show I was just amazed at the folks who, when looking at a fake in a genuine TPG holder remarked "it has to be genuine ,"TPG" states genuine on the label ...

burfle23

Some of the fakes are scary good- I have had conversations with others that if enough of them are slabbed as genuine, will they become genuine in the eyes of the hobby?

I ran across an on-line resource for US large cents over the weekend and screen printed the following from their web site:

The image used for the obverse of the illustrated wreath cent example is actually a well documented counterfeit and featured in one of my 1st Coin Week counterfeit detection articles...

rte592

@burfle23 said:

@rte592 said:
Maybe a better way to ask, How do I know if a US coin is questionable.
I have a gamble coming in with a 1914-D cent.
It's a good probability it's not real but didn't want to ask questions on eBay and let the other watchers/bidder know the results of my question.

Learn everything about the series or coins you intend to collect! In the case of the '14-D, learn the mm positions of a genuine one like the examples I posted (I use the created template for these):

The template approach also works well for the 1909-S VDB for folks willing to understand...

I actually wrote a Coin Week article on the fake TPG certified '09-S VDB which will be my 49th article on the subject of counterfeits when published by Coin Week.

So, never just trust the "slab" but learn to trust your eye, armed with the necessary info available on the internet, coin clubs and forums like this. One of the 1st times I set up with a display at a major coin show I was just amazed at the folks who, when looking at a fake in a genuine TPG holder remarked "it has to be genuine ,"TPG" states genuine on the label ...

EXCELLENT
If I can't determine if it's a fake or altered I'll put up some pictures and see what everyone says... Probably put pictures up either way.
As of now I have these excellent sellers pictures