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WOW, HA images on the right- 1795 OC Draped Bust Dollar

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    Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another fake coin in a fake slab. Scary stuff out there.

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is real scary!

    You have to be educated not only in what the coin is, but also know about the slab it came in.

    There counterfeits are getting better and better.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heritage has a fake coin for sale?

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    2windy2fish2windy2fish Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No, the images on the right are of the real coin photographed by Heritage, the pics on the right are the fake, the ebay listing is at the bottom of the pic

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    OMG this makes me afraid to buy anything from ebay. That looks way to real. Why isn't that thing down from ebay?

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, the vampire bite variety shows up again.

    Here is a genuine piece which our hosts graded as a VF-35.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it just me or does the fake one actually look better? Real one looks cleaned/dipped/stripped.

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    Piano1Piano1 Posts: 233 ✭✭✭

    OK, I'm confused. The start of this topic shows 2 1795 dollars in PCGS slabs; same ID number. I see several minor differences in the 2 coins on very quick observation (talons, for example as well as eagle size), I assume that e-Bay will pull the auction for the coin on the right??

    There is a wealth of valuable information in this thread. May I ask, are there any distinguishing signs on the SLAB for which collectors should be aware? Are those little horizontal lines in the seam of the "fake" slab adjacent to the left and right side of the coin how one can recognize a fake slab? In burfle23's post, what is the significance of the red circle on Liberty's neck? Are those 2 dots indicitative of a counterfeit?

    I was burned years ago (some of you might remember this from when I was MusicAL on this site years ago,) but SEGS graded MY 1795 dollar as "VF-20 "cleaned". I was happy with that. When I converted all of my SEGS coins to PCGS slabs, most did OK...but my dollar was determined to be a counterfeit. I never replaced it and the gaping hole in my collection remains. My coin was good enough to fool the SEGS crew...but PCGS got it right.

    Piano1

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    cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like the listing is pulled now?

    Many happy BST transactions
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    ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great job spotting this fake & getting it removed!
    Your efforts are appreciated @burfle23 <3

    Thanks for posting this to help educate members here! :)

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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2023 3:35PM

    @Piano1 said:
    OK, I'm confused. The start of this topic shows 2 1795 dollars in PCGS slabs; same ID number. I see several minor differences in the 2 coins on very quick observation (talons, for example as well as eagle size), I assume that e-Bay will pull the auction for the coin on the right??

    There is a wealth of valuable information in this thread. May I ask, are there any distinguishing signs on the SLAB for which collectors should be aware? Are those little horizontal lines in the seam of the "fake" slab adjacent to the left and right side of the coin how one can recognize a fake slab? In burfle23's post, what is the significance of the red circle on Liberty's neck? Are those 2 dots indicitative of a counterfeit?

    I was burned years ago (some of you might remember this from when I was MusicAL on this site years ago,) but SEGS graded MY 1795 dollar as "VF-20 "cleaned". I was happy with that. When I converted all of my SEGS coins to PCGS slabs, most did OK...but my dollar was determined to be a counterfeit. I never replaced it and the gaping hole in my collection remains. My coin was good enough to fool the SEGS crew...but PCGS got it right.

    Piano1

    Yes, look at the font differences of the counterfeit on the left compared to the genuine example on the right. But, the slab is decent and the barcode scans correctly on it. Fortunately the on-line cert, which of course has no image does have a past auction listed and link to the Heritage one, so images to compare to.

    For anyone who has read mine or other's articles on these, the "bite marks" on the throat of the "Vampire Counterfeits" are diagnostic of the fakes; the counterfeiters have made "coins" using this design from 1795 through 1799, but the 1795 is obviously the most deceptive since it was taken from a genuine host example.

    This counterfeit can be seen in my unpinned post in this forum on known counterfeit PCGS holders.

    The next image is of another bad example, purchased by a friend around 2011; he unfortunately got burned for $9K on it. At the time he petitioned PCGS to start adding notes to the on-line cert (like NGC now does) stating known fakes of that cert number- a suggestion that still bears merit now...

    Best, Jack.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi @Piano1

    If you compare the font on the two slabs, the counterfeit one is different.

    You should also note the red circle in the enlarged picture below the slab pictures that show the two pits on the neck of the counterfeit. This is the now notorious "vampire variety" which has become so commonly seen.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    giorgio11giorgio11 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Piano1 said:
    OK, I'm confused. The start of this topic shows 2 1795 dollars in PCGS slabs; same ID number. I see several minor differences in the 2 coins on very quick observation (talons, for example as well as eagle size), I assume that e-Bay will pull the auction for the coin on the right??

    There is a wealth of valuable information in this thread. May I ask, are there any distinguishing signs on the SLAB for which collectors should be aware? Are those little horizontal lines in the seam of the "fake" slab adjacent to the left and right side of the coin how one can recognize a fake slab? In burfle23's post, what is the significance of the red circle on Liberty's neck? Are those 2 dots indicitative of a counterfeit?

    I was burned years ago (some of you might remember this from when I was MusicAL on this site years ago,) but SEGS graded MY 1795 dollar as "VF-20 "cleaned". I was happy with that. When I converted all of my SEGS coins to PCGS slabs, most did OK...but my dollar was determined to be a counterfeit. I never replaced it and the gaping hole in my collection remains. My coin was good enough to fool the SEGS crew...but PCGS got it right.

    Piano1

    The type font on the fake is obviously different to my eyes ... but I have had a very long career in writing, publishing, and editing so my eyes are attuned to such typographic differences. But one does see many, many of the fakes in those slabs having that heavier, more-compact bold typeface. Just look well at the labels, and perceive the many subtle differences.

    Kind regards,

    George

    VDBCoins.com Our Registry Sets Many successful BSTs; pls ask.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can’t condemn the genuine piece from a couple of photos. It might look better if the lighting were at a different angle.

    The appearance of the Chinese fake is improved by an application of “Chinese toning” which enhances the relief parts of the design. Quite often this artificial toning is a marker for detecting their bogus products but in this case it made the thing look better, at least in these photos.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Listing is gone now.. Great work and an excellent thread on the diagnostics of both the coin and the slab. Thanks to all...Cheers, RickO

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    burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,192 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2023 6:38AM

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