ANACS grading question (UDM)

[Deleted User]

I have the mindset that ANACS is 2nd tier grading. I don't know if I am correct in that thinking. I'd like to get it straightened out in my mind. I honestly like PCGS and NGC in that order.
With that said where does ANACS fit in?
Current grading?
This is not an attempt to put down or elevate any TPG. I'd just like to know.
Is there a timeline when the grading was conservative or too lose. I've spent some time looking into this myself. It's like chasing my tail.
On a different note I would like to include this question instead of starting a different thread.
I also saw a Morgan sell on ebay that was an 1884 MS64 UDM yesterday. I know what it means but does it really matter?
I'm not saying that in a bad way. I am serious. Is this something better than DMPL?
If you have any coin with UDM can we see it and discuss this designation?
Still learning and this would be good knowledge to have.
Thank you

gumby1234

UDM is ANACS way of saying DMPL. The TPG's like to have their own terminology. NGC uses Ultra Cameo if I remember correctly. On Roosevelt dimes PCGS uses FB for full bands while NGC uses FT for full torch. Different terms with basically the same meanings.

Old ANACS soap bar holders are generally considered tightly graded. I have cracked out many and submitted to PCGS and NGC and gotten upgrades.

[Deleted User]

@gumby1234 this makes for good conversation so please do not think I am contradicting you. I see that ANACS uses DMPL, PL, DMPL Cameo and UDM. So I know you are correct in what your saying, however, where does it fit in?
Is this something above a dmpl cameo?
Is this their top grade for mirrors or mirror cameo?
Good to know about the soap bar holders. I'm sure there is more to discuss on their grading timeline as far as standards go.
It always boils down to buy the coin but when purchasing online knowing what is more reliable than not is a good tool to have I believe.

coastaljerseyguy

I believe UDM is ANACs highest grade for a mirrored finish. I haven't seen any old soap bars in a while with them, but thought they used DM in addition to UDM.

lilolme

Had to look around a little as the ANACS page for this cuts off some information that might define it. Below is the ANACS page screen shot. Then below that is a response on the NGC board supposedly from ANACS.com stating the UDM is 12". But again I couldn't verify this right now as noted above.
.

.
.
.
https://boards.ngccoin.com/topic/76103-anacs-defines-a-3rd-part-of-pl-reflectivity/

gumby1234

If you can read standard sized printing in the fields holding the card two to four inches away from the coin, ANACS will grade that coin PROOFLIKE (PL). If you hold the card four to six inches above the coin and you can still read the standard sized printing, ANACS will give that coin the DEEP MIRROR PROOFLIKE superlative, also known as DMPL. Those mirrors with 12 or more inches of reflectivity in the fields on both sides of the coin will be designated as ULTRA DEEP MIRROR (UDM) by ANACS.

UDM's are pretty spectacular looking and aren't easy to come by.

ColoradoCoinGuy

In my opinion ANACS grades just as well as PCGS and NGC, but when it comes time to sell they don't bring the same money as the other two. Many people don't like their slabs, however I like the fact that you can read the date on the top of the slab without having to pull in out of the slab box. As @gumby1234 stated, the old white Soap Bar slabs tend to be tightly graded.
The older Blue slabs are probably the worst when it comes to grading. CAC does not accept ANACS slabs, which in my opinion is another reason that they are not accepted in the marketplace the same way PCGS and NGC are. I think there are many ANACS slabs that are purchased by knowledgeable collectors that are cracked out and sent into the other two services and cross at the same grade or upgrade. This is also why you don't see as many nicer, high grade, coins in ANACS slabs.
ANACS will slab all Dan Carr items. They also do many more varieties than the other services.
Being in Colorado I can get coins slabbed by ANACS for only the grading fee. (No shipping or insurance which saves money).
This makes them more economical for lower value coins.

DollarAfterDollar

Years ago the knock on them was that they were more liberal on Mint State coins but were pretty good with circulated coins. It's been so long I may have that exactly backwards. I've never minded ANACS grading myself.

spyglassdesign

When you compare the pricing of many coins, and sales, you will find ANACS valuation seems to lag somewhat behind the top two. Some coins significantly. The market accepts they have value, but not to the level of the other two.

This can imply that by market standard they aren't bad, but they are at least slightly second tier in their grading. As others have pointed out many of their older slabs are considered some of the most conservatively graded.

braddick

Some of the neatest looking Morgans are in ANACS small white slabs with UDM and CAMEO on the insert.

TennesseeDave

I used Anacs many years ago and did receive a 63 or 64 UDM on a Morgan $ once, but I don't still have it.

FlyingAl

The UDM designation on older ANACS slabs is highly coveted, often more than a NGC or PCGS DPL/DMPL.

[Deleted User]

@FlyingAl said:
The UDM designation on older ANACS slabs is highly coveted, often more than a NGC or PCGS DPL/DMPL.

Is that to say not so much on the newer slabs?
Although I don't exactly know what the new slabs look like.
Are they the slabs with yellow, purple and white color scheme?
Is their grading consistent with the big two these days?
Edited to add: I would love to see the reflection on a UDM. It must literally be like a mirror. If you can hold it 12 inches you can probably hold it 2 feet.

U1chicago

The Anacs UDM Morgans have mirrors deeper than the typical DMPL of most TPGs. The coins tend to be special and attract significant premiums. I've owned some in the old white slabs and in the new yellow slabs-both were good. NGC occasionally does a star DMPL combo and that can mean that the mirrors are beyond the typical dmpl. PCGS does not really have anything to distinguish the top dmpl coins (theoretically they can use a plus but that tends to be for the coin being at the top of the grade rather than the top of the dmpl chart).

U1chicago

Here are a few videos of UDM Morgans (in hand these were even better)

New yellow holder (only obverse UDM):

https://instagram.com/p/BpYLDgAAVWQ/embed/

Old small white holder UDM:

lilolme

@U1chicago said:
Here are a few videos of UDM Morgans (in hand these were even better)

.
Hey, nice video. I was thinking of getting out the snap-o'matic to try and capture the deeper mirror dmpl but now no need to.

DelawareDoons

I've owned several UDM's. They are the crème de la crème of dmpl's. Wish PCGS and Co would use the designation too.

[Deleted User]

Those videos were just what I wanted to see. Thank you for taking the time to do that.
My sense is that if you purchase a UDM with clean fields and frosty devices you basically have everything a legitamate proof can offer.
I know proofs are another level in both eye appeal and value.
I've been obsessing about purchasing a proof morgan but honestly the proofs I see currently available below $5000 (within my price range) just cannot persuade me to part with my money.
I'd prefer to buy one of these and a handful of gem WLH.
Makes sense to me.

DelawareDoons

@Watchtower said:
Those videos were just what I wanted to see. Thank you for taking the time to do that.
My sense is that if you purchase a UDM with clean fields and frosty devices you basically have everything a legitamate proof can offer.
I know proofs are another level in both eye appeal and value.
I've been obsessing about purchasing a proof morgan but honestly the proofs I see currently available below $5000 (within my price range) just cannot persuade me to part with my money.
I'd prefer to buy one of these and a handful of gem WLH.
Makes sense to me.

You can buy a killer 5 dmpl for a fraction of the money of a crappy proof morgan.

I'd suggest going that way all day. Hell, 6dmpl's aren't bad compared to a 5cam morgan.

EDIT: I'd also encourage you to be VERY selective when shopping for a DMPL. They come crappy, they come super nice. Hold out for one with killer mirrors and great contrast.

ricko

Morgans with UDM or DMPL ratings are really amazing. I would suggest you only buy those when you can view them in hand... or with guaranteed return privilege. So much depends on lighting etc. Cheers, RickO