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New Top 100 Modern Set coming - It's here now.

GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 1, 2023 5:09AM in PCGS Set Registry Forum

I just read the new article from Jaime Hernandez about a revised top 100 Modern set and am very excited to see it. I felt this set needed to be revised from the beginning to exclude nearly impossible items, way too many 1964 SMS and 2007 frosted freedom coins, and of course now update it for some new ones like the 2020-W $50 1,945 low mintage gold eagle privy, for example.

Please express my thanks to PCGS and Jaime for revising this set and I hope to see the new version very soon.

https://www.pcgs.com/news/top-100-modern-coins

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Comments

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    I believe Jaime’s (a superstar at PCGS) article written last year, but printed for the January magazine is not 100% clear.

    The 3 illegal to own coins will be removed as I was promised they would be nearly 10 years ago. And, I believe you thanked me Goldminers back then for my efforts in that regard. But, the new edition didn’t come out for that nearly 10 year period so they were never removed (yet) as previously promised. Now, that will happen.

    The super rare No S Ike and dime moderns will not be removed - I support what PCGS plans to do with those 2 mega-rarities as does John, who owns the No S Dime and worked through me to get to a position he fully supports as well.

    The new set will begin in 1965 so goodbye to the 1964 dated coins. They were never “modern”to begin with by most folks definition. I still personally love the coins and have no plan to sell my $150k I have tied up in those rare coins.

    Great new coins like the 2020-W $50 Gold Privy will, of course, be very highly ranked in the new set as it deserves to be.

    Overall, it should be super exciting to be a Top 100 PCGS Modern collector later this year!

    As always, just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin

    Since you have collected many of the very finest coins possible for the top set since the day it started (and assisted in that regard) and were awarded a Hall of Fame award for it, it certainly makes sense for you, and a few select others to be involved again in establishing some criteria for the revised set.

    I am looking forward to seeing what other changes will be made.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just started this set based on this thread- it sounds fun.
    Sadly, I only had two coins in my collection that fit within this set!

    :|

    peacockcoins

  • onlyroosiesonlyroosies Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭✭

    Mitch,
    All the changes you noted above sound perfect. I'm glad to see the Ike and Roosie still included in the set. I'm guessing PCGS may include a sub set that does not require the Ike and Roosie?

    Looking forward to when these changes happen.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Quick question.
    How and why was the order these coins were listed came about?
    It appears arbitrary.

    peacockcoins

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hey Pat- I was one of the (4) “creators” of the Top 100 PCGS Modern set when DH invited me (as the only “outside” Modern coin expert at the time) to assist himself, Ron Guth and Jaime Hernandez (from the “inside” of PCGS) with the creation of the set. If you ask me a specific question, I can try to answer you back as specifically as possible.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks, Mitch!
    1- How was the order of the coins listed within the Registry initiated?
    2- Why is the 1996 American Silver Eagle (the 100th coin within the Registry) required and not 1986 instead?
    3- I know it has probably been addressed in detail, but why is the 1964 Peace dollar needed as it would be
    impossible to obtain this coin legally?

    It is a terrific example of modern-era coins within a Registry and certainly would be a fun and challenging pastime
    to even complete 50% of it.
    Thanks for coming up with the idea for this set.

    peacockcoins

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    3 is easiest to answer. After the 5th 1913 Liberty Nickel was found through PCGS offering a reward, if memory serves me right, DH wanted to offer a similar reward for anyone to simply come forward and show PCGS a 1964-D $1. Since he strongly believed (even knew?) these existed, I believe he concluded it would be the most valuable modern coin if anyone was ever allowed to keep one. So, it became #1 coin in set without much debate, as after all, DH was the Sheriff in town at that time and absolutely wanted the coin in the registry set as #1. I personally felt from the beginning the coin had no place in the registry set, especially being (likely) illegal to own. I finally convinced DH to remove the coin from the set and posted the confirmation in my notes to my registry set…

    ‘’About This Set: A couple years ago, I had an idea for a neat registry set for PCGS; a top 100 modern coin collection. I presented my idea to Jaime Hernandez who is the Price Guide editor at PCGS and a modern coin expert. He told me he had also been thinking about such a set and the two of us got to work on developing a proposed listing for what 100 modern coins should be included in the collection. We spent probably a few hundred hours working together on researching and formulating the (100) set coins and once we finally reached an agreement on all (100) coins, we presented our work to the top "Coinfacts" editors and contributors (David Hall and Ron Guth). David and Ron spent another six+ months fine tuning our work and only about a handful or so of our (100) proposed coins never made it to the inaugural (100) coins you see here. Later this year, I plan on writing some articles on my website, www.wondercoins.com, concerning the (100) top modern coins. There are so many great modern coins dated 1964-date that this set could have easily been the top (150) modern coins and the additional (50) coins would have been highly collectible and prized pieces. Who knows, maybe one day there will be such a set as the specialized area of modern coin collecting expands and the post-1963 era marches on. Just a quick personal comment on three of the coins in the "top 5". First, with respect to the 1964-D Peace Dollar, since it is (likely) illegal to own I would not have included it in the registry set, but would have created an "honorable mentions" listing outside of the required coins for the set. The same is true for the 1974 Aluminum Cent which is also quite possibly illegal to own. And, with respect to the dozen 22kt Sacagawea Dollars that have allegedly logged about 1.8 million miles in space already, it is without question these coins are government property and not possible to be privately owned by coin collections like me and you. As such, I respectfully believe coins ## 1,3,5 should not have been included in this registry set. Good luck everyone in building this wonderful registry set!
    Do you have a coin that could help my set and that is solid for the grade? Please let me know.

    UPDATE (1/29/13) -I had a chance to meet with David Hall today and discuss this Registry Set. He essentially agreed that coin ##1,3 & 5 deserve "honorable mention", but should not be included in this registry set. At the ANA show this Summer (or shortly thereafter), it is expected that (3) new coins will enter this registry set and those (3) coins will be deleted.’’

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2023 4:34AM
    1. As far as the order of the coins - as my notes described above, it started with me and Jaime putting together the list of the Top 100 Moderns and then presenting it to DH and R. Guth - the “brain trust” behind (young) Coinfacts at the time. Hundreds of hours later, a list of 100 coins became the Top 100 Modern Set #1. Since I owned the No S Ike at that time, I was OK putting the No S Dime above it to avoid any perceived conflict of interest. That said- at that time and at all times thereafter I believed (as did Jaime H. as well as far as I know) that the Unique $1 was at least 2x as valuable as the mintage 2 (at the time and still today) dime. When I bought the No S Dime in the Heritage auction for just under $500,000, if memory serves me right, I had already passed on selling my No S Ike for “seven figures”.

    So, while the ranking of the coins in the “first edition” was not “perfect” in my eyes, it was “close enough”. A few coins got left out of the edition 1 set including a couple coins purely by accident, but, overall, it was a fairly good representation of what were truly the Top 100 Modern coins at that time (more than a decade ago).

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    2 - Very fair question Pat. I think it came down to value. The 1996 at that time was the more valuable Mint State Silver Eagle. But, it could have easily been the 1986 in that 100th slot.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wonderful answers and it just occurred to me that the set is ranked in order of importance and rarity!
    In other words, the #1 coin is more challenging to locate than the #10 coin, and on and on, with the 100th coin being
    the most "common."
    It makes sense and gives the Registry even more credibility.

    On a side note:
    It would be a pleasure to see a photo of your no "S" Ike dollar.

    peacockcoins

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The March/April PCGS Market report magazine article by Jaime Hernandez has a listing of the new 100 coins, but I am not sure this is the final version?

    I do not see a new Registry Set for the "updated" version. I think maybe the old version should be retained or archived for past documentation?

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks to one and all for sharing this very informative article on the origin and updates to this historic set.
    It is always great to hear from the horse's mouth (@wondercoin) the answers to the 5 W's.
    I read the PCGS Market report on this set and actually bookmarked it for future reference.
    I will have to see what coins that I have that will fit this set.
    Please update this post as more information becomes available as to when the "new set" is up and running.
    Again, thanks to all for sharing.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WAYNEAS said:
    Thanks to one and all for sharing this very informative article on the origin and updates to this historic set.
    It is always great to hear from the horse's mouth (@wondercoin) the answers to the 5 W's.
    I read the PCGS Market report on this set and actually bookmarked it for future reference.
    I will have to see what coins that I have that will fit this set.
    Please update this post as more information becomes available as to when the "new set" is up and running.
    Again, thanks to all for sharing.
    Wayne

    The new set has been posted on the PCGS site as the Top 100 Modern Coins 10th Anniversary set.

    The original Top 100 set that Wondercoin owns and that has been the top set for 10 years, including the Hall of Fame designation, remains as is and still includes the unique 1976 Ike no S dollar.

    A few various special labels and certificate versions like First Day of Issue are still being added so they can be accepted on some of the coin lines, but all of the actual 100 coins are listed as they were in the magazine.

    I believe some of the listing order is questionable.

    The 2004-D Wisconsin quarters with the high and low extra leaf are listed at #18 and #19 with more than 3,000 graded each, and the (2007) Washington dollar with missing letters is #36 with over 10,000 graded.

    The very rare 1970-S Lincoln DDO large date cent has only 107 ever graded and it is listed at #58 and should easily be in the top 20.

    However, this unusual numerical listing order seems to be compensated for in set impact because the set composition weighting does show the rare Lincoln DDO as 4, and the other more common coins above as 1.

    Overall, it is a well thought out revision and should attract some interest in some of the more obscure modern coins and varieties. I just wish the 1964 SMS coins were more affordable :'(

  • WAYNEASWAYNEAS Posts: 6,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:

    @WAYNEAS said:
    Thanks to one and all for sharing this very informative article on the origin and updates to this historic set.
    It is always great to hear from the horse's mouth (@wondercoin) the answers to the 5 W's.
    I read the PCGS Market report on this set and actually bookmarked it for future reference.
    I will have to see what coins that I have that will fit this set.
    Please update this post as more information becomes available as to when the "new set" is up and running.
    Again, thanks to all for sharing.
    Wayne

    The new set has been posted on the PCGS site as the Top 100 Modern Coins 10th Anniversary set.

    The original Top 100 set that Wondercoin owns and that has been the top set for 10 years, including the Hall of Fame designation, remains as is and still includes the unique 1976 Ike no S dollar.

    A few various special labels and certificate versions like First Day of Issue are still being added so they can be accepted on some of the coin lines, but all of the actual 100 coins are listed as they were in the magazine.

    I believe some of the listing order is questionable.

    The 2004-D Wisconsin quarters with the high and low extra leaf are listed at #18 and #19 with more than 3,000 graded each, and the (2007) Washington dollar with missing letters is #36 with over 10,000 graded.

    The very rare 1970-S Lincoln DDO large date cent has only 107 ever graded and it is listed at #58 and should easily be in the top 20.

    However, this unusual numerical listing order seems to be compensated for in set impact because the set composition weighting does show the rare Lincoln DDO as 4, and the other more common coins above as 1.

    Overall, it is a well thought out revision and should attract some interest in some of the more obscure modern coins and varieties. I just wish the 1964 SMS coins were more affordable :'(

    Thank you @Goldminers for the update.
    The last auction that I saw for a ‘64 SMS Kennedy was just under a 100k.
    I have not followed the action results since. This coin is way out of my league.
    I feel that there will be some changes made to the new set in regards to positioning and additions to and removals from.
    I did notice that the ‘96 MS ASE was removed from the #100 slot.
    I do not go for label rarities but that is just me.
    Again thanks for updating me with this post.
    Sorry for any bad punctuation and grammar as I am fighting Vertigo as I type this.
    Wayne

    Kennedys are my quest...

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WAYNEAS said:

    Thank you @Goldminers for the update.
    The last auction that I saw for a ‘64 SMS Kennedy was just under a 100k.
    I have not followed the action results since. This coin is way out of my league.
    I feel that there will be some changes made to the new set in regards to positioning and additions to and removals from.
    I did notice that the ‘96 MS ASE was removed from the #100 slot.

    The new set does have changes compared to the old set and they are already posted in the registry, including removing the 96 MS ASE that is in the old set that you mention.

    I do not believe the new Top 100 Modern coin 10th Anniversary set will have any coin changes from what is active in the registry at this point.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi guys.

    Justin Atkins, top brass at PCGS in charge of the Top 100 Moderns project, gave me express permission to post the following…

    The new updated “Premier” Top 100 Moderns set will be released in Quarter 2.

    I have much to discuss, but wanted to get this announcement out as soon as possible.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • onlyroosiesonlyroosies Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭✭

    I see that the SMS dime was not included in the set. I also thought moderns started in 1965. Why have any of the SMS coins in the set. If they are to be included why not all 5. I have to assume this is just an error on PCGS's part. Why would you exclude only the dime?

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 6:13AM

    @wondercoin said:
    Hi guys.

    Justin Atkins, top brass at PCGS in charge of the Top 100 Moderns project, gave me express permission to post the following…

    The new updated “Premier” Top 100 Moderns set will be released in Quarter 2.

    I have much to discuss, but wanted to get this announcement out as soon as possible.

    Wondercoin

    I like the idea of a separate "Premier" set that includes the really high-end and extremely scarce coins.

    I also believe there should be an "Everyman" version. Coins like the unique Ike, the five 1964 SMS, the 1969-S DD Lincoln cent, the 2000 Sacagawea quarter mule, or any coin with a graded population of less than 100 should be excluded from an "Everyman" set.

    By only including coins that have more than 100 graded coins in existence, it would allow more modern collectors to have a shot at finding and collecting them, so there would be more interest in the set.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ‘’I have decided not to support this new set anymore even though I have 90 of the 100 because to me it does not reflect what top modern coins most modern collectors want to own, and prices to obtain some of them are not realistic.’’

    Goldminers: I see you have removed your #1 set from the new Top 100 Modern Registry. I have some comments to make about the new set (and the premier set that is expected to be revised in less than 90 days for the first time since it’s inception more than a decade ago) and will do so a bit later today. Stay tuned.

    Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 2:07PM

    @Goldminers said:

    Another coin that is questionable is the #2 listed 2014 $5 gold eagle narrow reeding coin in MS, that was included in the March-April 2023 PCGS market report as well. In that published report PCGS changed the price guide from $1,000 to $25,000!

    In the report it stated, "For this particular coin, there are no public auction records providing insight on where the coin sold, and we had no information of any private sales for this piece." It goes on to say that these are unquestionably undervalued and that now "we had information of a sale where a coin traded in the $25,000 range" so they upped the price guide.

    Here are the facts. This is a screenshot from Great Collections auction data and from current PCGS auction data for coin #545947 the narrow reeds.

    Other than the first pop one coins, these have not sold for very high prices at auction in the past. Now a couple people on eBay are asking $20,000+ due to the magazine article which came out March 3rd. One did sell as a result for a higher price on eBay March 12th for $9,000 with an ask of $12,000. USA coin book values them at $4,597.

    I recently saw one on eBay with a buy it now for $19,000 that referenced the PCGS new $25,000 value that did not sell, and when I pointed it out, PCGS did lower the guide to $19,000, but again no one even started a bid at $14,500. This $1,000 to $25,000 price increase in 3 months has made people believe this coin is worth more than it really is.

    Interestingly, the PCGS past auction records for the lower priced Great Collection auctions for some reason are no longer showing up on the PCGS site for this particular coin.

    I wanted to buy one of these narrow reeds for my complete modern gold set, but now I see that it is drastically overvalued with little evidence. I have decided not to support this new set anymore even though I have 90 of the 100 because to me it does not reflect what top modern coins most modern collectors want to own, and prices to obtain some of them are not realistic.

    ——-

    I have a slightly different perspective to share on the 2014 Narrow Reed. My understanding is there were possibly (speculated) that just over 1,000 coins escaped as narrow reed in 2014. PGCS intentionally did not add a value expecting some if not a lot of these to be found. (PCGS has also been much better at catching up on back log of adding pricing to coins not previously priced).

    Anyway, since only a handful of narrow reeds have surfaced over the last many years, a price was appropriately added. 35 in existence warrants a $25k price in my opinion in a very highly collectable series.

    NGC slab sold for close to 28k? (Don’t quote me I’m not going to look). PCGS slab just sold for $12,500 I believe. I’ve spoken to many dealers and it’s such a small pop and niche coin not many people know about it.

    **edited to add
    So a coin didn’t sell on eBay and you had PCGS change the value to the non completed buy it now price? Cmon that seems out of bounds (and no that is not my coin for sale).

  • onlyroosiesonlyroosies Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭✭

    I was going to start a modern set last year and held off until the new sets came out. I'm glad I held off. I have now decided not to pursue building a modern set that would fit either of the new sets as I do not agree with the coins in either set, Again why are the 1964 SMS coins included when modern starts in 1965, and if you are going to include them where is the dime. at first I thought leaving the dime out was an oversight by PCGS. I'm not so sure of that now. There are IMHO many coins at the top that should not be included and many others that are not included that should be included. I believe these sets will get more non-support than support going forward.

    Just my 10c worth

  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭

    I’m sorry to see a highly regarded registry set removed in protest of the newly comprised Top 100 Moderns Set, but I understand and agree with it, and support that difficult decision.
    This newly announced Top 100 Moderns set deserves additional attention, and corrections need to be made.
    I’m not sure how the new proposed version of this set got so screwed up.

    It was agreed that the original Top 100 Modern set was problematic in that it contained some illegal to own coins. Some corrections seemed obvious, and we saw that much thought was going into other recommended changes to the set.

    Wasn’t it concluded that the modern set starts in 1965, illegal to own coins were to be removed, and then it was discussed that some ultra rarities be kept in the original premier set, and that a “light version” of much more obtainable modern coins could be introduced?

    We watched the forum’s thoughtful discussions about developing a better “light version” of the Top 100 moderns.

    What happened?

    This newly published Top 100 Modern Set is not close to what has been discussed.

    This new set seems rushed, haphazardly created, inconsistent, and looks like there was very little thought or care in it’s creation.

    Did (new?) execs just ignore all the hard, time-consuming work that had gone into the development of a better, more collector-friendly set?
    Did collectors/numismatists have any input in this new Top 100?
    Was all the old work ignored?
    For example, how did a six-figure mule get into this list when the three frosted freedom coins were removed, and two of the three are worth far less than the mule?

    How did a gold eagle variety with a U.S. Mint reported mintage of 1000 coins with approximately only three dozen of those 1000 coins located thus far, get into the #2 position of this new registry set (and I won’t even get into the pricing of this variety issue) when the truly exceedingly rare 1971-S Type-1 proof Eisenhower dollar, with an estimated total mintage of only about 15 -20 coins, not even make it into this set at all, let alone in the first or second ranked position in this set where it deserves to be? The Ty 1 Proof Ike dollar just sold at Legend’s last major auction for nearly $31,000 in only a PR68DCAM grade. It’s estimated mintage is 15-20 coins tops (roughly the same as the Mule currently in the #1 slot). It’s a 50+ year tested and true modern silver dollar rarity; not a less than 10 year old modern gold variety where 35/1000 coins have been submitted to the grading companies thus far. The gold variety grabs the #2 spot in this new modern set while the silver dollar mega-rarity gets no ranking at all. Seriously- how ridiculous is that !

    Somehow priorities got messed up.

    It seems that a rush to get this project out, ruined the product.
    Hopefully, PCGS will realize the problems and correct the set make-up.

    The Top 100 Moderns is an important set. Take a deep breath, realize an adjustment is needed, regroup the experts and do it right!

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 3:23PM

    @johnny010 said:

    I have a slightly different perspective to share on the 2014 Narrow Reed. My understanding is there were possibly (speculated) that just over 1,000 coins escaped as narrow reed in 2014. PGCS intentionally did not add a value expecting some if not a lot of these to be found. (PCGS has also been much better at catching up on back log of adding pricing to coins not previously priced).

    How do you know how many have really been found? All we know is how many have been graded.

    Anyway, since only a handful of narrow reeds have surfaced over the last many years, a price was appropriately added. 35 in existence warrants a $25k price in my opinion in a very highly collectable series.

    There is one with an asking price right now of $19,000. If you think the MS69 is worth $25,000 why don't you buy it?

    NGC slab sold for close to 28k? (Don’t quote me I’m not going to look).

    The original find pop 1 coin sold for $28,650 in 2015. On April 3, 2016 the first pop 1 PCGS coin sold for $15,403 at Great Collections but it was an MS70

    PCGS slab just sold for $12,500 I believe.
    It was on eBay asking $12,000 on March 12th and the buyer accepted $9,000 only after the extreme price guide increase

    I’ve spoken to many dealers and it’s such a small pop and niche coin not many people know about it.
    There were numerous articles on this. If they don't know about it, they are not very informed modern gold collectors.

    **edited to add
    So a coin didn’t sell on eBay and you had PCGS change the value to the non completed buy it now price? Cmon that seems out of bounds (and no that is not my coin for sale).

    I have no control at all over what PCGS puts in the price guide. All I did was point out that there was one for sale for less. They are the ones who determine prices, but if they are going to base it on actual sales, it is hard to justify saying it is worth $25,000, $19,000, or $14,500 when the most recent documented sale was $9,000.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RegistryCoin
    I think you make some very good points. There needs to be some further adjustments regardless of how it happened.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2023 3:57PM

    ‘’For example, how did a six-figure mule get into this list when the three frosted freedom coins were removed, and two of the three are worth far less than the mule?’’

    RegistryCoin: As johnny010 just commented, you make some very good (and poignant) points. If memory serves me right, the (2) separate auction appearances at Great Collections and Heritage of a $25 Frosted Freedom Platinum yielded prices realized between $30,000-$60,000, give or take. So, why is that coin not in the “light” version of the newly revised Top 100 set, but the #1 coin in the “light” version set is a coin (the “Mule”) worth about TWICE as much?

    To this particular point, Ian at GC recently sent me an email:

    ‘’Obviously the Frosted Freedom are some of the most significant modern coins to ever have left the U.S. Mint. Surprising that PCGS would not include them in the set - has to be an accidental oversight.’’

    Plain and simple - if it was not an “accidental oversight” but a well, thought out, value related decision, that’s fine, but the Mule clearly needs to be removed from the new set immediately as well or the FF decision makes little sense. Yes?

    Just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    "(PCGS has also been much better at catching up on back log of adding pricing to coins not previously priced)"

    Yes, I agree. The fact that PCGS lowered the price some on that coin when I pointed out the new eBay information, confirms they are trying to keep things updated when new information comes in. Usually, adjustments are made incrementally. I suspect that if the sale prices continue to drop, the price guide will reflect that.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    @johnny010 said:
    "(PCGS has also been much better at catching up on back log of adding pricing to coins not previously priced)"

    Yes, I agree. The fact that PCGS lowered the price some on that coin when I pointed out the new eBay information, confirms they are trying to keep things updated when new information comes in. Usually, adjustments are made incrementally. I suspect that if the sale prices continue to drop, the price guide will reflect that.

    I’ll reply to your prior thoughts tomorrow.

    As for this thought, assuming the coin stays on the list of 100, I can see the price increasing so maybe not a bad idea to grab them now before they do go up. Different perspective but worth considering (speaking to everyone not just you since it seems you might be done with this particular set).

    I am glad for this discussion because I think I might just start and attempt to complete this one next (to the degree it can be completed as all the details are still not clear).

    JM

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers
    Thinking we just move forward from this topic. If the 14 stays as part of the set value will increase due to demand (until/if more surface). Same as any other coin that was off the map and is put on the map.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    @Goldminers
    Thinking we just move forward from this topic. If the 14 stays as part of the set value will increase due to demand (until/if more surface). Same as any other coin that was off the map and is put on the map.

    I would rather buy 10 ounces of gold in these economic times for +/- $20,000, instead of risking my limited funds on a 1/10-ounce modern coin with narrow reeds on the edge and plastic around it, but I have been wrong before. Good luck.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Goldminers- I suspect, anyone other than the “pump and dumpers” would agree with you. It’s not even a close call IMHO. Give me 5 ozs. please! 😂

    But, Goldminers - pay close attention to possible manipulated prices on this one. Could you imagine if you secretly owned 100-200 coins out of the 1,000 and already had price guides moving like a yo-yo at $1,000 up to $25,000, down to $19,000/coin. One might be planning their retirement on those few rolls alone!

    The US Mint confirmed they released less than 2 dozen 1/4 oz 2007 Frosted Freedom platinum coins into the public domain and the last sale of a perfect 70 grade was in the $30,000’s as I recall at Heritage after 15 years. The Mint confirmed a release of 1,000 of these gold coins! I hear a collector may have paid $9,000 for whatever reason (if true). And, this makes it a $19,000 P.G. coin ponders Goldminers (down from $25,000). You have every right to ponder such unverified pricing.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2023 6:19AM

    Yes, I agree this coin value is questionable. Prior to the $1,000 to $25,000 price guide increase, the last two public auction results a little over a year ago at Great Collections were $838.12 and $523.74. It is surprising that PCGS does not show these public GC auction prices anymore for this coin that I was closely following, and NGC does not show a price on their website for this coin either.

    Edited to add the more common but similar error 2015 $5 narrow reeds also exists. So far PCGS has graded 392 of them, which is actually a lower graded population than 40 of the other "Top 100 modern coins" in PCGS holders.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2023 9:50AM

    ‘’It is surprising that PCGS does not show these public GC auction prices anymore for this coin that I was closely following, ‘’

    Goldminers: Are you saying that all the 2016 auction records of GC were recently removed for this coin? Or, were the GC prices never posted in the PG?

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2023 12:41PM

    @wondercoin,
    I did not mean to imply PCGS removed the GC records, because I believe there are no details of GC auctions anymore in the PCGS auction price data since Dec 2014. This may be due to GC no longer providing auction details to PCGS.

    I will explain why I was concerned. I was waiting for a real auction to buy one of these coins and all of a sudden, the price guide shot up from $1,000 to $25000 for a MS69 seemingly out of nowhere. The MS70 went from $5,000 to $32,500 at the same time.

    PCGS stated in the March-April 2023 Market Report page 59-60, "For this particular coin, there are no public auction records providing insight on where the coin sold." Then after discussing only 15 were graded at PCGS, they continued, and quoting again,

    "We also had information of a sale where a coin traded in the $25,000 range. Therefore, the PCGS Price Guide showed a value increase from $1,000 to $25,000 within the past three months or so. So, in some instances, the coin may not have necessarily jumped in price, but it's more of the PCGS Price Guide reflecting the market as more reliable data becomes available."

    Of course, there really were publicly available auction records of this coin on the GC site that I screen copied above, but these do not show up in the PCGS auction data. However, even on the PCGS auction price site there were the two 2018 eBay sales of $2,350 and $2,500, and Heritage sale of $376 in 2016 is also shown. I could not find price data on this coin at NGC either, but they do show 5 MS70 and 19 MS69's were graded.

    Other than the first documented pop 1 coins at NGC and PCGS, the average sales for the 5 Great Collection auctions are around $1,500. The public eBay sales were in the $2,500 range. It was this magazine article and the extreme bump to $25,000 that apparently led someone to offer $9,000 to an eBay seller asking $12,000 last month. The magazine article is actually in the current existing eBay ad showing the $25,000 circled, so it had quite an impact.

    When the high-priced existing eBay ad at $29.9k posted there were 32 total graded, then 35 by next ad for 19k, and now the new $22.5k ad correctly shows 39. Seems like more are being graded now.

    This coin apparently got bumped up to #2 on the Top 100 due to only 15 being graded (plus now 24 at NGC) and the increase to $25,000 in the price guide for the MS 69 based on "information of a sale where a coin traded in the $25,000 range." It does appear that this coin is being sold mostly behind the scenes and so private sale pricing is highly uncertain.

    This is Just one of several frustrating things that make this particular registry set too complicated for me to mess with at the moment. I also have coins/medals that would improve my registry sets that I sent in Oct and November that are still being graded. The fun I used to have collecting is slipping away.

    I hope everyone can have a great Easter weekend.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes please enjoy your weekend everyone.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    JM, If I had the resources like you do, I would stick with the Morgan and Gold gem type sets you are working on instead of messing with this new modern set.

    Your 1907 Saint high relief, flat edge is stunning, worth more, and is way more enjoyable than any of the coins in this 10th anniversary modern set. If I could start all over, I would collect mostly only classic gold.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Goldminers said:
    JM, If I had the resources like you do, I would stick with the Morgan and Gold gem type sets you are working on instead of messing with this new modern set.

    Your 1907 Saint high relief, flat edge is stunning, worth more, and is way more enjoyable than any of the coins in this 10th anniversary modern set. If I could start all over, I would collect mostly only classic gold.

    I can’t speak to how I’ll feel in many years but right now I seem to like most coins the same. One of my favorites that I own is a 1976 penny with odd color tones.

    How long have you collected and did your taste change along the way? The 100 modern would be a great accomplishment.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny10
    I started collecting with Whitman albums as a kid. Cents, nickels, dimes mostly. In 1980 I bought all the American Art gold medallions and then started collecting eagles, modern commemoratives, and extended to mostly all precious metal modern US coins. My first PCGS registry sets were gold eagles that I started in 2006, and I have had complete sets of them since 2008, other than a couple varieties. I am no longer interested in them much anymore, so moved on to a few classic $2-1/2 and $10 gold Indians.

    The last decade, I went all in, (effort, not $$) to collect as many National Commemorative Medals of the US Mint in top condition as possible. These medals started in 1954, after the US Mint stopped doing regular US commemorative coins in 1953, and they were all approved by Congress. Few people are even aware of these, and their importance, because they are not "coins" and so very few have been graded.

    This set, documented by John T. Dean's book in 2012, is incredibly difficult, and I wanted to get the medals saved with photos before many were lost. You have to hunt for most all of these raw. They were never sold at the US Mint or via coin dealers and were only available at various sponsored events scattered around the country. Most were minted in Philadelphia, and many designed by Gasparro. Several have very low mintages, and are very scarce and seldom seen for sale, so it can take several years to even find some in decent shape, if at all.

    This is the set I personally value the most for what it has taken me to get it this far. You can see the link to it below under all my posts. The digital album or gallery are the best way to see them and the various sizes and finishes. Most of the missing medals in my set album have never been graded at PCGS.

    I hope a few modifications are made to this new 10th anniversary modern set and then I may get more involved with it again.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow
    I checked the set

    Truly amazing. How many hours did you put into that set?

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    Wow
    I checked the set

    Truly amazing. How many hours did you put into that set?

    Thanks. No way to count all the time it has taken. Ten years looking, auto searching all the time. My other contacts looking for me as well. For some I sent in emails to every older coin shop in a state to ask if they had even seen any that were only sold at an event there 30-70 years or more ago.

    I had to send every one of them in to get graded or crossed over and I still have some in grading from last year. Usually I have to find, buy and grade several to get to ones that are top pop. It is a major challenge but that is why I like it.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a link so others do not have to spend 10 minutes finding it like I just did ....

    https://pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/famous-u-s-coins/top-100-modern-coins-10th-anniversary-edition/8694

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 30, 2023 6:15AM

    Follow-up on my comments above on the narrow reed coins.

    PCGS has revised the price guide for the 2014 $5 gold narrow reeds down to $15,000, from the jump to $25,000 which was a surprising increase for the MS69, based limited sale information at the time.

    This new price seems to be a more reasonable valuation now for the 2014, considering the number graded at PCGS is only 15 and the NGC total is 24 after almost 10 years, and considering recent eBay sales above $10,000.

    Even if there are more 2014's that are being hoarded or undiscovered it seems like this coin is much scarcer than initially believed. IMO the 2014 narrow reed coin should be included in the gold eagle registry sets along with the 2015 $5 narrow reed coins.

    The mint report of thousands of $5 gold eagle coins inadvertently struck with the 1/10th ounce Buffalo narrow reed collar was meant to include the 2015's. A combined total of 2,445 narrow reed varieties have been graded which indicates the mint estimate was correct.

    Edited to include additional population report information:

    PCGS has graded 1,760 2014 $5 gold eagles with normal (wide) reeds and 14-MS69's and 1-MS70 with narrow reeds.
    NGC has graded 12,963 2014 $5 gold eagles with normal (wide) reeds and 19 MS69's and 5-MS70's with narrow reeds.

    PCGS has graded 5,720 2015 $5 gold eagles with normal (wide) reeds and 392 with narrow reeds.
    NGC has graded 14,952 2015 $5 gold eagles with normal (wide) reeds and 2,053 with narrow reeds.

    Even when combining the two dates that were struck in error with the same narrow reed collar, only 407 total have been graded at PCGS. They are by far the lowest PCGS populations of any of the $5 gold eagle coins graded, even including the 2006W-2008W burnished coins and the 1999W coins struck with unfinished proof dies.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be fun if there were an "Everyman's Top 100" Registry.

    peacockcoins

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2023 7:09AM

    I do think the Sacagawea mule is a questionable coin and should not be included along with the many other mules which some may have been done by rogue mint employees and are not really true modern production errors.

    The prices of the 1964 SMS coins are also out of reach for most collectors and I still believe a modern set collection should start in 1965. Wondercoin did a great job obtaining the SMS coins for his Hall of Fame Top 100 Set which of course should be kept intact.

    I decided I will try to collect most of the coins in this new set, but I have no desire to buy any mules or the 1964's, including the SMS dime which was overlooked.

    It would be more fun if an Everyman Set was established without the $25-$100k coins, and that also allowed more modern collectors to participate in selecting their replacements.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I picked up a 2014 Narrow Reed. Time will tell if this was a good play. I assume demand may go up with these being required to build the modern set. Assuming at least 40 people want to build that set 😁

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 8, 2023 7:50PM

    @johnny010 said:
    I picked up a 2014 Narrow Reed. Time will tell if this was a good play. I assume demand may go up with these being required to build the modern set. Assuming at least 40 people want to build that set 😁

    Wow, was it a PCGS or NGC? Where did you find one? PM if you want.

    PCGS needs to have more people ask to put these in the gold eagle sets too, as separate line items like the 1999W $5 and $10 dollar, and the 2021W $10 unfinished proof dies are, to get them the attention they deserve.

    Mint employees used proof dies by mistake to make the three unfinished proof die errors and they mistakenly used a Buffalo 1/10-ounce proof die collar to make the 2014 and 2015 narrow reeds. Both are the same type of major error and so should be in the gold uncirculated sets as major varieties.

  • johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PCGS

    From a guy that wanted to sell me some Libertads. I was on the fence because those aren’t my thing (yet?) and then he wanted to show me his 2014. Too random to pass it up. I’d almost say it found me.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,585 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:
    PCGS

    From a guy that wanted to sell me some Libertads. I was on the fence because those aren’t my thing (yet?) and then he wanted to show me his 2014. Too random to pass it up. I’d almost say it found me.

    That is amazing. Congratulations.

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