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Possible 1930 S Wheat Cent Overdate? 🤔

I can’t determine if underneath the zero is a 5, an 8, or an accidental “S.” So I figured I’d post a few pictures of it & see what others have to say.



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    MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're imagining things.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nothing there.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    braddickbraddick Posts: 23,115 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MarkKelley said:
    You're imagining things.

    The images are amazing imaginations.

    peacockcoins

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,672 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like someone is channeling Madden.

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

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    wozymodowozymodo Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2023 7:55PM

    Deleted

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,511 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @MarkKelley said:
    You're imagining things.

    The images are amazing imaginations.

    @braddick said:

    @MarkKelley said:
    You're imagining things.

    The images are amazing imaginations.

    Imagine that

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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No!

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot... Welcome aboard. Very good pictures, but there is nothing there but surface damage and the hit on the 0.... Much like seeing images in clouds, our imaginations can see things in surface irregularities of coins - usually due to wear, handling, damage.. all Post Mint Damage (PMD). Cheers, RickO

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    https://www.businessinsider.com/science-of-the-white-and-gold-blue-and-black-dress-illusion-2015-2

    I’ll just leave this here and see if anyone decides pareidolia is still as useless as a excuse or answer as to why they see something differently than another..

    @coinbuf, @MarkKelley, @291fifth, @johnny9434, @ricko

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    WiskyTangoFoxtrotWiskyTangoFoxtrot Posts: 34
    edited February 4, 2023 9:19PM

    Or maybe a little outline to point your eyes in the direction to see how I see it..


    I’m no expert, but the design of the “2” used in the 1920’s does match the outline I have made under the 3. And I’m not saying that it’s perfect or even visible with ease, but to straight deny that it’s even a possibility based on all the strange things that have made it onto coins over the years, such as other over dating like on the 1918 D, 8 over 7 Buffalo Nickel, or the 1942, 42 over 41 Liberty Dime.

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    anablepanablep Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whatever it might be, it's not obvious. If 40x magnification is required to see some artifact on a coin, it's probably not worth going through the trouble of whatever you want to do with the coin. Nice pictures though.

    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
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    @anablep, I was simply looking for a confirmation of the possibility, not an outright rejection because it’s not as definitive. And I don’t remember asking if it was worth anything either. It’s for my own personal collection of oddities & mishaps. I don’t want to sell it, but if it was a kind of over date variety, who better to bring it to than the attention of the largest group of collectors on any given forum?

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    ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome to the forum! :)

    The 2 appears too large for the size of a 2 used by the mint.
    The 8 would be too small for the size used by the mint.
    Sorry, it's not what you think it might be. :/

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,511 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Still don't see it 😕

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    @ifthevamzarockin,

    Here I have 2 1920 cents, side by side so you can see that even though they are both from the Philadelphia mint, there are still noticeably different profiles of the 2 that was used.

    Here is the 1920 side by side the 1930 and remarkably the outline of the 2 in question under the 3, looks not only to be a similar size, but also follows the same design profile of the 2 on the 1920.

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    @ifthevamzarockin, obviously the design profile of the 0 is different, and if I had a 1928 to put side by side with the 1930, you would probably notice that the 8 is of similar design and size to that of the questionable 8 under the 0 of the1930 coin.

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    ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,498 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you try doing a photo overlay you will see the size difference.
    Notice how tall the 8 is. ;)
    Here are a couple of photos for you to play with.

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    emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭✭✭

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @emeraldATV said:

    Damage

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,053 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2023 6:04AM

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    Or maybe a little outline to point your eyes in the direction to see how I see it..

    I’m no expert, but the design of the “2” used in the 1920’s does match the outline I have made under the 3. And I’m not saying that it’s perfect or even visible with ease, but to straight deny that it’s even a possibility based on all the strange things that have made it onto coins over the years, such as other over dating like on the 1918 D, 8 over 7 Buffalo Nickel, or the 1942, 42 over 41 Liberty Dime.

    The examples of “over dating” you mentioned are different from the coin you posted in that they are visible and don’t require the use of imagination.
    Of course, you’re free to “see” whatever you want, even if it’s not there. And while I could be wrong, I suspect that you’re just having some fun. Regardless, I hope you enjoy your coin.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,768 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2023 12:41PM

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/science-of-the-white-and-gold-blue-and-black-dress-illusion-2015-2

    I’ll just leave this here and see if anyone decides pareidolia is still as useless as a excuse or answer as to why they see something differently than another..

    @coinbuf, @MarkKelley, @291fifth, @johnny9434, @ricko

    You are free to think or see whatever you like on that or any coin, I'm sure that if you look hard enough you will have no trouble imagining a bunny rabbit face too. However, I'll not be falling down the microscope rabbit hole with you, all I see is a well circulated wheat cent, great for a wheat cent folder.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,511 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2023 2:37PM

    I'd like to put an O in there pat

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    @anablep, I was simply looking for a confirmation of the possibility, not an outright rejection because it’s not as definitive. And I don’t remember asking if it was worth anything either. It’s for my own personal collection of oddities & mishaps. I don’t want to sell it, but if it was a kind of over date variety, who better to bring it to than the attention of the largest group of collectors on any given forum?

    Don't you think that someone would have noticed an overdate in the 90 years since it was minted? Overdates are not unique. Every coin of that die would have the same overdate.

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    @jmlanzaf, unless, I don’t know, a worker at the mint happened to take a 28’ Penny and put it directly onto the press thinking it would be a cool memento of their job at the mint? Haven’t crazier one off coins come out over the years with a similar stories? Hell, maybe they decided to reuse a die, and I happened to find a coin that had been struck by it before it wore out to where it wasn’t as noticeable. I can only speculate, but then again, that’s all you can do too. And no, I don’t think that someone may have noticed that in the last 90 years, most people tend to be oblivious to the finite details of pocket change.

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    silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,599 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nothing there just a beat up penny

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    ZoidMeisterZoidMeister Posts: 3,021 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm with the OP. He needs to send it to PCGS, express service . . . . . .

    There is a lesson to be learnt . . . . . . .

    Z

    Busy chasing Carr's . . . . . woof!

    Successful BST transactions with: Bullsitter, Downtown1974, P0CKETCHANGE, Twobitcollector, AKbeez, DCW, Illini420, ProofCollection, DCarr, Cazkaboom, RichieURich, LukeMarshall, carew4me, BustDMs, coinsarefun, PreTurb, felinfoal, jwitten, GoldenEgg, pruebas, lazybones, COCollector, CuKevin, MWallace, USMC_6115, NamVet69, zippcity, . . . . who'd I forget?

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    krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭

    I think the consensus is to save your money because there is nothing special about this coin, and it's definitely not an overdate. The people here have seen many, many overdates, and photos of many others, and no one believes it's an overdate or even the possibility of an overdate. But if you are determined, send it in, and pay the tuition.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

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    JoeLewisJoeLewis Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭✭

    Send it to PCGS

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    PizzamanPizzaman Posts: 226 ✭✭✭

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    @jmlanzaf, unless, I don’t know, a worker at the mint happened to take a 28’ Penny and put it directly onto the press thinking it would be a cool memento of their job at the mint? Haven’t crazier one off coins come out over the years with a similar stories? Hell, maybe they decided to reuse a die, and I happened to find a coin that had been struck by it before it wore out to where it wasn’t as noticeable. I can only speculate, but then again, that’s all you can do too. And no, I don’t think that someone may have noticed that in the last 90 years, most people tend to be oblivious to the finite details of pocket change.

    You don't think you're just seeing things?

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    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OP likes to post these things and can come up with tons of excuses as to why he's right and everyone else is wrong.
    So...put up or shut up. Send them in and post the results. Otherwise this is a waste of time and server space.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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    Russell12Russell12 Posts: 193 ✭✭✭✭

    "I was simply looking for a confirmation of the possibility, not an outright rejection" TRANSLATION: If you can't tell me I am correct, don't comment.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2023 2:30PM

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    @jmlanzaf, unless, I don’t know, a worker at the mint happened to take a 28’ Penny and put it directly onto the press thinking it would be a cool memento of their job at the mint? Haven’t crazier one off coins come out over the years with a similar stories? Hell, maybe they decided to reuse a die, and I happened to find a coin that had been struck by it before it wore out to where it wasn’t as noticeable. I can only speculate, but then again, that’s all you can do too. And no, I don’t think that someone may have noticed that in the last 90 years, most people tend to be oblivious to the finite details of pocket change.

    A double struck coin is not the same as an overdate.

    Occam's razor. "Anything can happen" is not evidence.

    People may be oblivious. Variety specialists are not.

    I'm not speculating. I'm looking at the coin objectively.

    You need to study further.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We are all wrong. You have a very special coin. Send it for grading.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    Shane6596Shane6596 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :D why wont this thread die?

    Its like a bad penny, it keeps turning up

    Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Shane6596 said:
    :D why wont this thread die?

    Its like a bad penny, it keeps turning up

    It is a bad penny, which is why it keeps showing up. :p

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    Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Shane6596 said:
    :D why wont this thread die?

    [Its like a bad penny, it keeps turning up]

    Because people keep responding to it!
    OH NO! Now I just did - sorry........... :o

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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    @Pizzaman. No, I don’t think I’m “just seeing things.” I posted this to hear the opinions of others, and though I don’t necessarily agree with the majority of responses, it doesn’t mean that I dislike any of them for giving their opinions.

    After further research, I have come to realize that I may have used the wrong terminology to describe what I see on the coin in my original post, causing people to hyper-focus on just that particular point of it not being an “overdate.” Really what I should’ve asked is, if it was a “Class 3 Doubled Die” instead.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    @Pizzaman. No, I don’t think I’m “just seeing things.” I posted this to hear the opinions of others, and though I don’t necessarily agree with the majority of responses, it doesn’t mean that I dislike any of them for giving their opinions.

    After further research, I have come to realize that I may have used the wrong terminology to describe what I see on the coin in my original post, causing people to hyper-focus on just that particular point of it not being an “overdate.” Really what I should’ve asked is, if it was a “Class 3 Doubled Die” instead.

    Very intellectually agile of you. You asked if it has a "5, an 8, or an accidental S" under the zero? That was your initial question that made us hyperfocus on the question you asked.

    Now that we are refocussed on the correct question: Not a class 3 doubled die.

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    @Russell12. Not true by a long shot. I’m all for being proven wrong, and will gladly accept and acknowledge that I am wrong, when someone can actually prove me wrong either by explanation, or through physical evidence. Opinions about why any one individual thinks that it is not what my query asked about, provides neither.

    TRANSLATION: If I’m not learning anything because you’re giving me an opinion based on the feeling of your personal experience or education, but you’re not providing any reasoning, knowledge or logic to your analysis in response, why should I have blind faith to accept it without further clarification or question?

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    FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Explanation: what you see on your coin is the result of contact marks, circulation marks, and other marks – well, after the coin had been in circulation. your coin is not a Mint error of any kind or type. I’m sorry to say.

    Your coin did not leave the US Mint looking like that at all in 1930

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
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    emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 4,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Save the coin.
    2. Research any other finds that you feel should be documented into your theory.
    3. Don't put all your time into one quest. Moving on may answer many questions that you have.
      It's funny to me that your photos and comments are filling in my moving on questions so to say.
      After all this, I'm moving on again, saving this coin for another time.
      I'd like to thank you for your passion on this subject.
      I hope these photo's will fill in some blanks. Please note in your first photo, north of the 3, is a scratch like image of a 2.
      Same as in my photo. If I track down any other information that helps you ? You can count on me to share the damage.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    @Russell12. Not true by a long shot. I’m all for being proven wrong, and will gladly accept and acknowledge that I am wrong, when someone can actually prove me wrong either by explanation, or through physical evidence. Opinions about why any one individual thinks that it is not what my query asked about, provides neither.

    TRANSLATION: If I’m not learning anything because you’re giving me an opinion based on the feeling of your personal experience or education, but you’re not providing any reasoning, knowledge or logic to your analysis in response, why should I have blind faith to accept it without further clarification or question?

    You're asking us to prove a negative. The burden is on you to prove the affirmative. [Prove that you're not a bank robber.]

    There is no evidence of doubling.
    There is no evidence of an overdate. You just heard from the foremost error expert in the US. But I'm sure that won't convince you either. It's just pareidolia.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2023 8:51PM

    @WiskyTangoFoxtrot said:
    I’m all for being proven wrong, and will gladly accept and acknowledge that I am wrong, when someone can actually prove me wrong either by explanation, or through physical evidence.

    Describe the sort of explanation or physical evidence that you will accept as a proof.

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    OwnerofawheatiehordeOwnerofawheatiehorde Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :s Just let this thread die already!

    Type collector, mainly into Seated. Young Numismatist. Good BST transactions with: mirabela, OKCC, MICHAELDIXON

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    @jmlanzaf. I’ve already accepted that it’s not an overdate as I had previously stated that I was wrong for using that term incorrectly, hence why I asked about the possibility of a class 3 doubled die, to which both you & Mr. Weinberg have replied and said that was not the case either. So I’m past asking what it could be, but I did respond to a few comments, one to acknowledge my incorrect use of terminology, and the other to more or less stand my ground in my expectation to gain new knowledge through these discussion threads.

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