I received those Morgan's need some help here

[Deleted User]

Guys I am alarmed. It could be for no reason but I need some help with these. This 1878 looks funny to me. I am not saying it's counterfeit because I wouldn't know. I listed to everyone's opinion and now that I have them in hand and I can control the images can you help me determine what's going on with this one for starters?

Ask me to take images of anything and I will.

[Deleted User]

lilolme

I am not looking for any counterfeit things but in the other thread you mentioned the option to return the coins and that is what you should do.

In the OP there are 3 obverse pictures. In the field at 3 o/c you have lines running in three directions - a different direction in each obverse picture. There are other lines on the coin visible in other areas. In hand you can tilt the coin and look for these. The coin portraits give the appearance of being dead as if over dipped or similar. The funky color on the coin could be trying to hide some of this stuff. Again return them.

MFeld

At best, the coin looks circulated and cleaned. Return it and don't let the seller talk you out of doing that, for any reason.

291fifth

If you have a return option DO IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TomB

1) Don't ever trust this seller again.

2) Return the coin(s) in question for refund.

3) Be ready for a fight for your refund.

4) Learn a lot more.

[Deleted User]

Thanks Gentleman.
I appreciate your help.

PeakRarities

Agree you should return the 78, Can we see the 98 now?

MFeld

You didn't post your own pictures of the other coin from the other thread, but I'm extremely confident it should be returned, as well. Good luck and I echo all of the points made by @TomB.

spyglassdesign

@Watchtower said:
Thanks Gentleman.
I appreciate your help.

Been there done that. That's why I am significantly more hesitant buying coins unless the photos are decent.

Risk aversion at this early in the game is not a bad thing and will save you some $ in the long run. If you don't have any slabbed Morgan's yet (pcgs or ngc), I'd suggest getting a few, 63 to 65 or 66, more common years (less cost) so you have a baseline to compare coins to. Even better if you can find some with cac because then you know it's been reviewed at least twice.

Good luck with the return!

coinbuf

Not trying to be mean, but I cannot help and wonder what the coins you previously bought from this "trusted" seller look like.

[Deleted User]

I appreciate your advice I really do.
I filed a dispute with paypal.

[Deleted User]

I opened a dispute on this with PayPal. I do not trust this person. He told me to send the items back for a refund but even still I do not trust them.

gumby1234

@Watchtower Can we see pics of the 1898 please?

MFeld

@Watchtower said:
I opened a dispute on this with PayPal. I do not trust this person. He told me to send the items back for a refund but even still I do not trust them.

Make certain you do everything (including shipping) in strict compliance with PayPal procedures. Remember, they’re your friend and the seller isn’t.

logger7

@Watchtower said:
I opened a dispute on this with PayPal. I do not trust this person. He told me to send the items back for a refund but even still I do not trust them.

I'm not sure I heard the whole story but it sounds like the seller misrepresented what he was selling with bogus pictures? Standard procedure is to open a return request, get a return label the seller pays for and get your money back when it is returned.

AUandAG

Certainly not a DMPL. It's been cleaned and is circulated. Where's the other coin?

bob

rokky

I think the first warning sign that should’ve been taken into account is the slab that the coin is in. Labeled as a Proof Cameo by a Mickey Mouse grading service. I wouldn’t have even take a glance at that coin. Just my opinion though

PeakRarities

These are from @Watchtower ‘s other active thread, it’s an 1886 he bought from the same seller in the past. Based on the new images of the 78, the images of the 86, and without yet seeing new images of the 98 yet I think it’s safe to say that this seller is not your friend. This 86 has nice mirrors but it’s a manipulated coin that I wouldn’t pay a premium for. As I mentioned in the other thread, look at the shadows around the stars that indicate cleaning. I still would like to see better photos of the 98 though, because that one looked like it might have even had a more sinister type of manipulation where frost was added to the devices.

jesbroken

As long as you have your emails back and forth and were offered a return and be totally honest with Paypal, you should walk away with your money returned. I just went thru this ordeal with paypal and they were very, very helpful and fair. Best of luck.
Jim

[Deleted User]

I am absolutely going to stay in compliance with PayPal and totally honest. I have been upfront all the way. All of the coins have hairlins I believe. They are deceiving at a glance but not after close scrutiny. If you want to see images I will send them. All I need to do is take one of my original Morgan's and place it side by side and it all jumps out.
I'll post images in a minute.

davewesen

Dan, showed the 78 not the 86

link to other thread ->https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1086885/morgan-purchase-i-need-opinions#latest

NickelMike

Ah yes, these coins. Cleaned and circulated like others have said. If the price is right go ahead and keep them, if not, good luck

[Deleted User]

Alright I will show you guys what I am dealing with. The 1887 is one of my own beautiful original lustrous Morgan's just for an example with images to kind of show how bad these coins are.

MFeld

@davewesen said:
Dan, showed the 78 not the 86

link to other thread ->https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1086885/morgan-purchase-i-need-opinions#latest

Dan’s post shows the 1886.

[Deleted User]

I do have a small hoard of around 50 Morgan's left now. I've traded off some of the xf and au coins for other coins I want to collect. Around 30 of them are BU. I want end up with the best 6 of the group a few real DMPL coins. A couple cameo DMPL coins and one proof then call it done with Morgan's. I love them I think they are beautiful but a handful of really nice coins will do it for me. I now feel like a fool. I gave someone my trust and they tried to take advantage of me. I won't let them win. I am planning on sending some of these images to paypal unless someone here suggests that I do not. I want to plead my case and give this person no room to slither out of this situation. I still feel like calling my credit card company but it doesn't seem right because I think somehow it will screw paypal. If things fail with PayPal I will call my CC company. I am open for advice on handling this.
Thank you.

PeakRarities

You might want to watch out for this with future purchases. See how the hairlines stop a little bit short of the devices? That’s normally an indicator of a harsh abrasive cleaning. Die polish lines would connect with the devices. Also note the “halo/shadow” effect around the stars.

davewesen

@MFeld said:

@davewesen said:
Dan, showed the 78 not the 86

link to other thread ->https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1086885/morgan-purchase-i-need-opinions#latest

Dan’s post shows the 1886.

sorry, shortened it up beyond comprehension ....

DeplorableDan, Watchtower's first post shows the 1878 not the 1886.

[Deleted User]

Dan I understand and agree. Those arrow points are good signals as you said. I am not defending my ignorance by saying this to you, the seller did their best to disguise these issues. Now that you can see the naked truth about those coins I would pay no more than $23 for any of those coins. I was deceived. I would like to say I should have known better, before I bought these I did not know better. Now I do. I have located three dealers who are well known and sell lots of PCGS Morgan dollars. They will get my business. No more of this for me. I'll go to local shows and if I buy online I now have a decent choice of dealers to work with.
This could have cost me a hard earned grand.
I hope this lesson I had to learn helps someone else.

PeakRarities

@davewesen said:

@MFeld said:

@davewesen said:
Dan, showed the 78 not the 86

link to other thread ->https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1086885/morgan-purchase-i-need-opinions#latest

Dan’s post shows the 1886.

sorry, shortened it up beyond comprehension ....

DeplorableDan, Watchtower's first post shows the 1878 not the 1886.

Correct, my post was an attempt to tie the whole story together, for readers who have not seen the ops other thread about these coins. The coins he finally received were first referenced in the thread linked below, and later in the thread OP had posted the pictures of the 86 and told us that coin came from the same seller in a previous purchase.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1086885/morgan-purchase-i-need-opinions/p1

FlyingAl

The 1886 has been harshly cleaned, as has the 1878. The 1898 looks somewhat ok, but I'd suspect a cleaning that isn't readily apparent in the images.

lilolme

I thought the new photos of the 1898 were interesting. While not a coin I would be interested in, I don't see anything really wrong with it. It has many contact marks though. It might also have some lines if rotated around in hand or the light. Now I went back and put the sellers photo side by side with the one in this thread. Notice in the middle of the cheek where the heavy frost break is located there can be seen a change in the texture of the sellers photo. Similar below the eye. Down on the neck there are multiple frost breaks and contact marks and in the sellers photo a heavier dose of the texture and color.

dhikewhitney

@MFeld said:
At best, the coin looks circulated and cleaned. Return it and don't let the seller talk you out of doing that, for any reason.

Concur

spyglassdesign

@DeplorableDan has hit the nail on the head. Learning to identify cleaning VS die polish is tough, and one of the first things I had to learn early on.

Keep at it, you will learn and there are many willing to share their knowledge here. Glad you are open to learning!

ricko

@Watchtower... Good luck with your returns and resolution. This seller is pushing junk, no doubt about that.... Cheers, RickO