1933 St Gaudens…15 to 20 known?
johnny010
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Elite
Smithsonian
Government
Others?
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johnny010
Posts: 1,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Yes there are others. Most have been confiscated by the Secret service over the years. There is one that is able to legally be owned by the public.
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The Langbords had 10. Government confiscated them. The prevailing theory is that there are a few more out there.
Edit for typo
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I was under the assumption that the Langbords had 10, Smithsonian has 2, and Elite has 1, for a total of 13. Are they counting coins that have been melted into the "15 to 20 known" ?
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Sorry, typo. I meant 10, not 12.
Not sure on the number remaining but there are supposedly a few more out there that Switt got rid of/sold.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
The Secret Service/Treasury confiscated more than just the 10 from the Langbords.
For example, Eliasberg surrendered his, in 1952.
The article below has a detailed list, and it shows that
many of the surrendered coins were melted down (but not the Langbord 10).
https://coinweek.com/us-coins/united-states-1933-double-eagle-20-gold-coin/
There may still be a few more that are held in secret (see the end of the list).
The guy that owns the 64-D Peace dollar has a couple.
Not illegal to own overseas. Just by private ownership in USA.
I thought the one was allowed to be considered legal because it was specifically listed on a government export form of some type and allowed to pass.
Some doubt it is even the same coin that came out of the Farouk 1953 auction. Way above my paygrade.
If anyone is interested, the Farouk auction is in this book. Abe Kosoff, the dean of American numismatics,
https://www.pcgs.com/books/abekosoff
No I don't.... I mean no he doesn't.
wag number. 13 are known to exist.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
No doubt there are a few out there.... The Langbord situation is a clear example of trying to do the right thing and getting shafted by the government. I still wonder if there were only ten in that SDB..... Cheers, RickO
theres more then most are not saying anything much (and i dont blame them)
The Government brought them to the ANA Show in 2008 and had them on display. They were really something to see.
From The Numismatic News
See ten 1933 $20s at ANA
A group of 10 1933 Saint-Gaudens double eagles seized by the government in 2005 will be put on display Aug. 16 by the U.S. Mint at the ANA World
NMNJUL 21, 2008
A group of 10 1933 Saint-Gaudens double eagles seized by the Secret Service will be put on display Aug. 16 by the U.S. Mint at the opening ceremony of the American Numismatic Association's World's Fair of Money in Denver.
Only one 1933 $20 can be legally owned. It sold in New York City during the 2002 ANA convention for $7.59 million. The others the Mint claims were illegally removed from the Philadelphia Mint more than 70 years ago. They were owned by the daughter of Israel Switt, who was once a jeweler in Philadelphia.
Existence of the 10 gold coins owned by Joan Langbord came to the government's attention in September 2004 when her family attorney approached the Mint about them. They were authenticated with the help of the Smithsonian Institution June 21, 2005, and this news was revealed to the numismatic hobby Aug. 11, 2005.
The coins are housed by the Mint in Fort Knox, Ky., in the facility that stores much of America's 260 million troy ounces of gold bullion reserves.
It has been feared that the coins will ultimately be destroyed, so this might be the only opportunity for collectors to view the valuable coins.
The Mint has maintained since the 1940s that the coins were never legally issued. Over the years examples have been seized, including the one now in private hands, which was taken in 1996. It was legalized after lengthy negotiations and when it came to light that King Farouk of Egypt was granted an export license from the U.S. Treasury for one of these coins.
All that the Treasury has said is that it does not intend to monetize, issue or auction the 10 1933 double eagles.
The coins will be introduced to the hobby by Mint Deputy Director David Lebryk before the ribbon cutting.
Frankly I don't feel the Langbords got shafted by the government, as they were only reclaiming what was essentially stolen property. It's more like they got shafted posthumously by their relative with the dubious morals. Those coins should never have left the bag- and wouldn't have- but for Switt's confederate at the Mint, who pulled the switch. The rumor that I always heard is that Switt likely had 20 total but got rid of a few. Moot point because anyone in possession of one will undoubtedly either keep it for life, after which we will have another Langbord-esque deal with that person's heirs...or sell it underground.
Just my twenty bucks worth
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
The extras were built into the Amber Room when it was moved during World War II along with the paintings from the Gardner museum.
I do like to believe that a few are out there like plenty of other undiscovered or lost gems.
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It would sure seem reasonable to me that there are certainly some around, trading from time to time underground.
Kinda like owning an unregistered machine gun, you would have to be very selective as to who could see it.
Of course the difference between the items in this analogy is that the coin would be confiscated, the unregistered machine gun could get you a cell.😂
"15 - 20 Known"
That just sounds wrong to me. If they're known, then the number should be exact.
I personally believe there are only 13; the 2 at the Smithsonian, the 10 from Joan Langboard, and the Farouk coin.
Probably makes sense this way if / when another one becomes legal. Elite is playing the cards on this one 😎
After the Langford 10 were unlawfully confiscated by the government, a private owner who had been waiting to see how the Langford case came out gave up and surrendered his coin to the government. Those 11 plus the (most likely) Farouk piece plus the two original Smithsonian pieces come to 14.
Wow
No way I’d ever do that.
Dumb of government not to sell to collectors and raise a 100 million for their coffers
I believe so. It appears that 24-25 got out of the Philly Mint but then you had 9 melted. With the Langbord 10, that might mean 5-6...less the Farouk Coin....less the one turned in anonymously in 2018.
So maybe 3 to 5 left.
If they sold all 10, they might get less.
Carr needs to do a 1934. I would buy that coin.
Did you check to see if the Chinese haven't already done it?
Dan would do a much better job.
I can't find any info on this 14th coin, and I don't believe it exists.
" Jaime Hernandez:
With the 2016 court decision that the government was within its bounds to take custody of 10 specimens of the 1933 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle long held by members of the Langbord-Switt family, we see the likely end of questions about how many examples will ever be available for private acquisition. The United States government can never sell any of the 12 examples it now has in its possession because of a document it issued with the July 2002 sale of the Fenton-Farouk coin; the official certificate issued by the government for that specimen states it is the only 1933 Double Eagle that was or will be released by the United States government and monetized. It also means that any 1933 Double Eagle that should appear in the future would receive the same fate as the 10 Langbord-Switt specimens. This only further reaffirms the unique status of the single 1933 Double Eagle available in the collector market, bolstering the coin's appeal and value."
Dan already did a 1934 St Gaudens $20 Gold Double Eagle Coin a few years back in 2018.
1934 - SAINT GAUDENS $20 Gold Double Eagle ICG MS70 4808551301 60 pcs 05/15/18
My coin graded MS70
That is correct but they don't specifically say that they will never monetize another 1933 coin, though I believe that is highly unlikely. This is the certificate of monetization.
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Dang I missed it.
Personally, I wouldn't have entrusted a single one to the gov't for authentication let alone ten. I realize everyone has 20/20 hind sight, though, I would book a trip to one of our host's overseas offices for that or any other piece at risk from our masters in D.C. Jmho! I am a believer in that the rightful owners of the ten '33's are the Langbords and they got royally ripped off.
Why would the Federal gov't sell them for multi millions when in their infinite wisdom-in their minds-could melt them and return them as bullion to the tax paying serfs?
They can't sell them since the coins were confiscated. If the coins are legal, they would have to return them to the Lanbords. If they aren't legal, they cannot be sold. They fought so hard to claim all the 1933 DE are illegal except for one. I don't see why they would undermine that and say these are legal to own now.
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There is at least one more in the US Mint's possession
https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/extant-1933-double-eagle-already-in-mint-custody.html
I just imagine if all of those dates were never melted in the 1930s. The fab 5 would be easily obtainable today.
Correct. This is the 14th specimen currently known to exist.
IF 25 specimens ( a nice round number totaling $500 face so why not?) passed through the hands of Israel Switt at some time in the 1930's, they presumably represent the 9 melted pieces, the (probably) Farouk coin, The Langbord 10, and the privately surrendered coin, which would leave 4 pieces unaccounted for.
My best guess is that they are in the hands of overseas collectors who know how to keep their mouths shut. This is based upon nothing but conjecture on my part.
@EliteCollection
Thanks for posting the monetization cert. Cool piece of history.
They already know one is in Europe, another is "elsewhere" and 2 others are unknown. https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/10-1933-gold-double-eagles-safe-from-fed-destruction.html
A lot were minted and sitting near the cashier’s window. Switt, being a jeweler, was a frequent visitor and probably exchanged a few older DE for the new shiny ones. No one stole any, all bag weights were correct. No one thought they would not be issued at the time.
The accuracy of the last sentence above depends upon (if applicable) when the coins were actually exchanged.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Absolutely. Roger Burdette’s research indicated a short window where the exchange could have taken place legally. If Switt could do it…
There is one on the East Coast. Neurotic collector that's does not believe Proof coins are actual coins. Built/turned his bedroom Into huge bank vault.
Showed me the coin while the Langboard trial was taking place.
The German Army was really good at hiding the Amber Room.......
Only God and the people that were there to witness it will ever know?
RickO ya still got that 64-D Peace?
Werent the Langboard Saints sent to NGC to get slabbed?
This is my thoughts. I mean, and I don’t think I’m unique, would most people actually turn ALL in? Why not test the water without going ‘all in.’ Maybe they would confiscate them, but at least I would hedge with just a few coins, squirreled away.
I would be completely shocked if there weren’t a few more floating around!
And it is still "theft" if you are sold something that had not been authorized for sale. No one is alleging that Switt pocketed them. But the Mint never authorized them for release to the public.
I always feel that if these were anything but coins people would be more up in arms about the insider trading and illegal acquisition.
Clicked on the 'shop' link for the 1933. Nothing came up. I'll try again tomorrow.
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