Because it's your own. Assuming the first is yours and 2nd is the 67+. Yours is a nice coin, especially your reverse, but look at Liberty's cheek on yours and then at the other. Notice how clean it is without nicks/scratches. As I said it's a nice coin, but not a 67+ in my opinion.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Hi everyone, I agree the 2nd is nicer it is in fact mine. The first coin is our hosts “Plate coin” for this year and mint and is currently graded 67+ so of course I am a little excited that my coin certainly looks to be even higher grade than this. But it came back as MS66 so I just wanted a consensus if it’s worth a reconsideration.
Hi dollarfan! The only “perceivable” chatter in front of Liberty’s face and looks like more of just an effect of that “orange peel” original surface. Because the only actually chatter is that small nick close to the hair line and that’s it. Value difference is my is about $600 retail and the 67+ sold at auction for $45,000 so pretty massive
So of course when I see that it’s possible my coin could be the finest Morgan ever of this date and mint that makes me question my own experience for me to even consider such a lofty claim. So is this really a discovery piece for the first MS68 1900 P Morgan or is mine an MS66 because it’s Blast white? I’ve collected Morgan Dollars for about 10 years and this is the finest one I’ve held and when I saw that it certainly looks to best the current record 67+
Based on the photos, like your coin better. I would try a few times to get it into a 67 holder, perhaps consider sending it to CAC grading when they open, or NGC if that fails. The plate coin appears to have a nicer reverse, but the obverse is weighted higher and I don’t see anything that would preclude your coin from 67.
Howdy davewesen! The top one is certainly a beauty. In fact it has my favorite type of toning! The red/blue rim toning is commonly found on silver coins in super old soapbox ANA holders.
Hey DeplorableDan! I’ve only had around 8 submissions total with our host. I know the “reconsideration” looks to be simple online I just wanted to make sure I’m not only looking through rose colored lenses here. Yes I would agree that the reverse on the plate coin does appear to pull ahead.
Hi FlyingAI! Thank you for the input! I agree they can! Since I only have the MS66 is hand I of course would not be able to fully get an accurate comparison with this plate coin.
@MatthewCoins said:
Hey DeplorableDan! I’ve only had around 8 submissions total with our host. I know the “reconsideration” looks to be simple online I just wanted to make sure I’m not only looking through rose colored lenses here. Yes I would agree that the reverse on the plate coin does appear to pull ahead.
Other members with more submitting experience should chime in, but you might be better off just cracking that one out and sending in raw, or using the regrade service. In either case, the graders don’t see the existing 66 grade on the current holder and they’ll grade it as a new coin. With reconsideration, the coin stays in its current holder while they grade it and I think you’d be much more likely to end up with a 66+. I highly doubt that the coin would ever grade less than 66 so you wouldn’t have much to lose.
I have cracked out coins before but for some reason I would be to scared to damage this since I use the Ol’ hammer method. At 66+ it sounds much more reasonable as it would make it only 1 full grade lower than this plate coin. I don’t have a registry set or anything but this might be the star of it! If it comes back higher than 66!
I will agree with @davewesen that the top coin appears to have better luster, and has a more original look. We would definitely love to see a different set of photos when you get a chance. As far as eye appeal is concerned, I really like how clean the cheek on your coin is. Please note that everything I’ve said is just my opinion, and I would also ask this forum for help if I were in the same situation. You may possibly get more replies tomorrow from more experienced collectors that explain exactly why yours can’t be a 67 and the top coin is, but I like that one a lot from the photos.
I just wonder how and who persevered these coins. In decades of collecting I've never come close to anything like these.......well, maybe once I had a 67 that was in an American savings holder.
bob
I think you could get a 66+ maybe, but i seriously doubt you'll ever get a 67. I don't see enough luster, and to me the reverse holds it back. I believe the other one was gifted a higher grade with the toning, but with high grade coins many times things that look like flaws or contact marks are not really there, they are extremely minor breaks in luster that catch the light and look bad in pictures. You'd have to see the other coin in hand to truly compare them.
There's a lot more that goes into grading than simply the looks. The luster, the originality of the surfaces, the lack of marks, the sharpness of the strike... Watch pcgs grading videos if you haven't already. Some of the features cannot be adequately compared by picture alone.
With that said, I think your strike is slightly weaker, but not by much. Look at the hair curls where the hair flattens out a bit. Your definition is noticeably weaker but again, only minimally.
Second, while your cheek and devices look clean, you do have more chatter in the fields. Both Obv and Rev.
Is it worth a resubmission? A plus or even a full upgrade says yes. If it's about resale value, it may be worth $50+ to try once or twice, depending on your initial investment.
This would be a perfect experiment for you to sharpen your grading skills by submitting the coin again. I personally think it’s accurately graded a 66, but you know best because you have the coin in hand. By all means, if you don’t feel comfortable cracking it because of potential damage to the coin, submit for regrade in the holder. You have to take chances in resubmitting high value upgrade coins in order to have great success in the coin market. I think the tuition this will provide you is well worth the price, because you’ll learn for future submissions.
Even though I am more partial to the appearance of the coin with the toning. I think technically the coin on the bottom should grade slightly higher. While the first coins fields are clearer, the smattering of contact points on the cheek I would think would keep this from a 67 or higher grade. The bottom coin has a few contacts in the field but the cheek is much cleaner. Unless my grading is off, I would place the bottom coin at a 67 and the top at a 66+ max.
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?"- Calvin and Hobbes
@MatthewCoins... Welcome aboard. You have a beautiful Morgan dollar there. The luster is somewhat less than the other (at least in the pictures)... yours has a mark by the Eagles beak and Liberty's eye... With minor marks in the obverse field. These coins are so close, it really requires in hand evaluation. I think a submission for reconsideration would be worth a try.
Good luck and let us know... Cheers, RickO
Wow, that is one clean cheek, congrats. Not sure the orange peel surface & its luster impact holds it back from the 67. One of the nicest 66 I've seen.
@Jimnight said:
What am I seeing above the eagles beak on your coin?
I think that coin is the 67+ coin, and it appears to be a small lamination peel? Doesn’t look like a full on hit, and may not have any affect on the 67+ grade.
Thank you for all the input everyone! I guess this coin wil be part of my first "recondsideration submission" I will say I always saw the TrueView images as always making coins look amazing so that's why I first even had these thoughts when I just looked at similar date/mint coins using the same lighting and angle and had to step back and see if it was only my bias that kept me thinking it had a chance at an upgrade. Alrighty well thanks for the welcome and I look forward to sticking around!
@MatthewCoins said:
Thank you for all the input everyone! I guess this coin wil be part of my first "recondsideration submission" I will say I always saw the TrueView images as always making coins look amazing so that's why I first even had these thoughts when I just looked at similar date/mint coins using the same lighting and angle and had to step back and see if it was only my bias that kept me thinking it had a chance at an upgrade. Alrighty well thanks for the welcome and I look forward to sticking around!
Welcome to the forum. Please update us with the results, as this is a great learning opportunity.
@justindan said:
I've had positive and negative experiences with both reconsideration and the cracking out resending.
I would have someone with more knowledge weigh the options while observing the coin in hand.
I had a good experience with a crack dip and resub... Quarter had some nasty spots and decent toning. Ms63fh to MS64FH without most of the spots (a couple wouldn't come off).
YMMV of course, and I wouldn't suggest dipping this coin unless you are experienced. It can go sideways very quick as I've learned! Reconsideration is definitely the safer option.
Both are beautiful coins. I do think they're now both correctly graded. The first coin with the rim toning has superior luster and detail. The stuff on its cheek is almost certainly over-emphasized in the photos and probably is just a subtle luster break in-hand.
Comparing the two coins in the first post in this thread, The toned coin has original toning and nicer fields, while the untoned coin (yours) has a nicer cheek.
I had a raw coin grade ANACS MS65 5 steps and than did not cross to PCGS at MS65FS. A $!00 overnight submission it finally graded MS65FS. Sold coin and someone else submited it and received a MS65+FS. Next time it sold, was submitted again and was graded MS66FS. Today, the coin does nor show in coinfacts anymore. Was it cracked out for an album?? lol Did it not grade FS again. Maybe it was crossed to NGC? The common denominator here folks is.......resubmit, resubmit, SUBMIT! lol
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
The second coin looks superior in the photos. Since it is already PCGS graded, get it to CAC first so they can evaluate it in hand and explain the potential for upgrade.
Congrats! IMO the coin is much more appropriately graded as a +, and I concur with @yspsales that its time for a trip to CAC. I love that coin in a 66+CAC holder and I think that's where it deserves to be.
I'm a little concerned with the possible effect of the lighting used for the photo of the 2nd coin's obverse. Between liberty's nose and star #7 there are several more or less vertical lines that look like cartoon "radio waves". Between her lips and star #5 there is another line, more or less horizontal. Also, there appears to be some disturbance on the front of her neck between her chin and the little dark line that's part of the design. All of these may (or may not) have been minimized with advantageous adjustment of the lighting setup.
Hi MS71 the lines in front of Miss Liberty’s face would be flaws/artifact's in the planchet nonetheless they certainly don’t help the coin in terms of at least making a more perceivable chatter free field.
Here’s my 66+ CAC of the same date, similar looking. Slab shot obverse shown to demonstrate the luster which TV’s often have difficulty capturing. Congratulations on your well deserved upgrade!
By the way, why did you choose Reconsideration (where the graders see the current grade as @DeplorableDan pointed out), versus Regrade, where the graders don’t see the current grade (other than the finalizer) and they guarantee the grade will not drop? This is really moot with the end result with your coin, since you got the Plus added on! I also agree with @DeplorableDan in that your coin will likely merit a CAC sticker
Your coin is lovely.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I sent it in on reconsideration. I would love to have a green bean like yours but I don’t have anyway to sign up for CAC since they have been closed to new members for something like 6 months.
You should have waited longer for more people to tell you the bottom coin is clearly superior before revealing that it's yours. I do like your coin, and I think it could re-grade 67.
(As a fairly new poster with a generic avatar and only 15 posts, you can expect to be treated with skepticism for a while. You should upload an avatar and stick around.)
MatthewCoins
Posts: 18 ✭✭
Comments
Is the other one worth the reconsideration? Or do I only believe they’re equal because it’s my own?
You didn’t specify which one is yours, but the second coin appears to be of a higher grade.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Because it's your own. Assuming the first is yours and 2nd is the 67+. Yours is a nice coin, especially your reverse, but look at Liberty's cheek on yours and then at the other. Notice how clean it is without nicks/scratches. As I said it's a nice coin, but not a 67+ in my opinion.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.
Hi everyone, I agree the 2nd is nicer it is in fact mine. The first coin is our hosts “Plate coin” for this year and mint and is currently graded 67+ so of course I am a little excited that my coin certainly looks to be even higher grade than this. But it came back as MS66 so I just wanted a consensus if it’s worth a reconsideration.
Your coin is absolutely amazing. Is there some chatter lines in front of face on obverse? I would send it again. What is the value spread
Hi dollarfan! The only “perceivable” chatter in front of Liberty’s face and looks like more of just an effect of that “orange peel” original surface. Because the only actually chatter is that small nick close to the hair line and that’s it. Value difference is my is about $600 retail and the 67+ sold at auction for $45,000 so pretty massive
So of course when I see that it’s possible my coin could be the finest Morgan ever of this date and mint that makes me question my own experience for me to even consider such a lofty claim. So is this really a discovery piece for the first MS68 1900 P Morgan or is mine an MS66 because it’s Blast white? I’ve collected Morgan Dollars for about 10 years and this is the finest one I’ve held and when I saw that it certainly looks to best the current record 67+
top one has more luster and eye appeal
Based on the photos, like your coin better. I would try a few times to get it into a 67 holder, perhaps consider sending it to CAC grading when they open, or NGC if that fails. The plate coin appears to have a nicer reverse, but the obverse is weighted higher and I don’t see anything that would preclude your coin from 67.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Howdy davewesen! The top one is certainly a beauty. In fact it has my favorite type of toning! The red/blue rim toning is commonly found on silver coins in super old soapbox ANA holders.
I don't know - yours certainly looks nicer. I'd send it back, but remember pictures can be deceiving.
Young Numismatist, Coin Photography: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1090140/flyingal-coin-photography-10-photos#latest
Hey DeplorableDan! I’ve only had around 8 submissions total with our host. I know the “reconsideration” looks to be simple online I just wanted to make sure I’m not only looking through rose colored lenses here. Yes I would agree that the reverse on the plate coin does appear to pull ahead.
Hi FlyingAI! Thank you for the input! I agree they can! Since I only have the MS66 is hand I of course would not be able to fully get an accurate comparison with this plate coin.
I’d be curious to see a real photo not a truview style photo.
Hi Alan, so trueview’s are not considered real photo’s? What is real?
Other members with more submitting experience should chime in, but you might be better off just cracking that one out and sending in raw, or using the regrade service. In either case, the graders don’t see the existing 66 grade on the current holder and they’ll grade it as a new coin. With reconsideration, the coin stays in its current holder while they grade it and I think you’d be much more likely to end up with a 66+. I highly doubt that the coin would ever grade less than 66 so you wouldn’t have much to lose.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
I have cracked out coins before but for some reason I would be to scared to damage this since I use the Ol’ hammer method. At 66+ it sounds much more reasonable as it would make it only 1 full grade lower than this plate coin. I don’t have a registry set or anything but this might be the star of it! If it comes back higher than 66!
I will agree with @davewesen that the top coin appears to have better luster, and has a more original look. We would definitely love to see a different set of photos when you get a chance. As far as eye appeal is concerned, I really like how clean the cheek on your coin is. Please note that everything I’ve said is just my opinion, and I would also ask this forum for help if I were in the same situation. You may possibly get more replies tomorrow from more experienced collectors that explain exactly why yours can’t be a 67 and the top coin is, but I like that one a lot from the photos.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
I just wonder how and who persevered these coins. In decades of collecting I've never come close to anything like these.......well, maybe once I had a 67 that was in an American savings holder.
bob
I think you could get a 66+ maybe, but i seriously doubt you'll ever get a 67. I don't see enough luster, and to me the reverse holds it back. I believe the other one was gifted a higher grade with the toning, but with high grade coins many times things that look like flaws or contact marks are not really there, they are extremely minor breaks in luster that catch the light and look bad in pictures. You'd have to see the other coin in hand to truly compare them.
There's a lot more that goes into grading than simply the looks. The luster, the originality of the surfaces, the lack of marks, the sharpness of the strike... Watch pcgs grading videos if you haven't already. Some of the features cannot be adequately compared by picture alone.
With that said, I think your strike is slightly weaker, but not by much. Look at the hair curls where the hair flattens out a bit. Your definition is noticeably weaker but again, only minimally.
Second, while your cheek and devices look clean, you do have more chatter in the fields. Both Obv and Rev.
Is it worth a resubmission? A plus or even a full upgrade says yes. If it's about resale value, it may be worth $50+ to try once or twice, depending on your initial investment.
Either way, congrats on the very nice coin!
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Don't forget the rim matters too... The third face as it's sometimes called. And often overlooked.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
This would be a perfect experiment for you to sharpen your grading skills by submitting the coin again. I personally think it’s accurately graded a 66, but you know best because you have the coin in hand. By all means, if you don’t feel comfortable cracking it because of potential damage to the coin, submit for regrade in the holder. You have to take chances in resubmitting high value upgrade coins in order to have great success in the coin market. I think the tuition this will provide you is well worth the price, because you’ll learn for future submissions.
@spyglassdesign you are correct except its the edge not the rim.
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I've had positive and negative experiences with both reconsideration and the cracking out resending.
I would have someone with more knowledge weigh the options while observing the coin in hand.
Very good thread, @MatthewCoins.
Nice coin.
Welcome to the boards!
Even though I am more partial to the appearance of the coin with the toning. I think technically the coin on the bottom should grade slightly higher. While the first coins fields are clearer, the smattering of contact points on the cheek I would think would keep this from a 67 or higher grade. The bottom coin has a few contacts in the field but the cheek is much cleaner. Unless my grading is off, I would place the bottom coin at a 67 and the top at a 66+ max.
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?"- Calvin and Hobbes
@MatthewCoins... Welcome aboard. You have a beautiful Morgan dollar there. The luster is somewhat less than the other (at least in the pictures)... yours has a mark by the Eagles beak and Liberty's eye... With minor marks in the obverse field. These coins are so close, it really requires in hand evaluation. I think a submission for reconsideration would be worth a try.
Good luck and let us know... Cheers, RickO
What am I seeing above the eagles beak on your coin?
Wow, that is one clean cheek, congrats. Not sure the orange peel surface & its luster impact holds it back from the 67. One of the nicest 66 I've seen.
I think that coin is the 67+ coin, and it appears to be a small lamination peel? Doesn’t look like a full on hit, and may not have any affect on the 67+ grade.
Just for comparison, I’ll drop a few a few other plate coins in here too.
PCGS 67
PCGS 66+
PCGS 66
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Thank you for all the input everyone! I guess this coin wil be part of my first "recondsideration submission" I will say I always saw the TrueView images as always making coins look amazing so that's why I first even had these thoughts when I just looked at similar date/mint coins using the same lighting and angle and had to step back and see if it was only my bias that kept me thinking it had a chance at an upgrade. Alrighty well thanks for the welcome and I look forward to sticking around!
Welcome to the forum. Please update us with the results, as this is a great learning opportunity.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I had a good experience with a crack dip and resub... Quarter had some nasty spots and decent toning. Ms63fh to MS64FH without most of the spots (a couple wouldn't come off).
YMMV of course, and I wouldn't suggest dipping this coin unless you are experienced. It can go sideways very quick as I've learned! Reconsideration is definitely the safer option.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Hey everyone! I did send it in on a express reconsideration and low and behold it DID upgrade to a MS66+ now!
Thanks for the update.
Both are beautiful coins. I do think they're now both correctly graded. The first coin with the rim toning has superior luster and detail. The stuff on its cheek is almost certainly over-emphasized in the photos and probably is just a subtle luster break in-hand.
I'm glad you got the upgrade and think it's appropriate at the 66+ level. Very nice piece.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Comparing the two coins in the first post in this thread, The toned coin has original toning and nicer fields, while the untoned coin (yours) has a nicer cheek.
I had a raw coin grade ANACS MS65 5 steps and than did not cross to PCGS at MS65FS. A $!00 overnight submission it finally graded MS65FS. Sold coin and someone else submited it and received a MS65+FS. Next time it sold, was submitted again and was graded MS66FS. Today, the coin does nor show in coinfacts anymore. Was it cracked out for an album?? lol Did it not grade FS again. Maybe it was crossed to NGC? The common denominator here folks is.......resubmit, resubmit, SUBMIT! lol
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The second coin looks superior in the photos. Since it is already PCGS graded, get it to CAC first so they can evaluate it in hand and explain the potential for upgrade.
Follow it up with CAC
Gorgeous coin.
I think the color probably gives the other coin a bump.
The chatter probably hurts your coin.
Best one can do from 2D images.
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Congrats! IMO the coin is much more appropriately graded as a +, and I concur with @yspsales that its time for a trip to CAC. I love that coin in a 66+CAC holder and I think that's where it deserves to be.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
I'm a little concerned with the possible effect of the lighting used for the photo of the 2nd coin's obverse. Between liberty's nose and star #7 there are several more or less vertical lines that look like cartoon "radio waves". Between her lips and star #5 there is another line, more or less horizontal. Also, there appears to be some disturbance on the front of her neck between her chin and the little dark line that's part of the design. All of these may (or may not) have been minimized with advantageous adjustment of the lighting setup.
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Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Hi MS71 the lines in front of Miss Liberty’s face would be flaws/artifact's in the planchet nonetheless they certainly don’t help the coin in terms of at least making a more perceivable chatter free field.
Congratulations!
That is one beautiful coin!
Here’s my 66+ CAC of the same date, similar looking. Slab shot obverse shown to demonstrate the luster which TV’s often have difficulty capturing. Congratulations on your well deserved upgrade!
By the way, why did you choose Reconsideration (where the graders see the current grade as @DeplorableDan pointed out), versus Regrade, where the graders don’t see the current grade (other than the finalizer) and they guarantee the grade will not drop? This is really moot with the end result with your coin, since you got the Plus added on! I also agree with @DeplorableDan in that your coin will likely merit a CAC sticker
Your coin is lovely.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I sent it in on reconsideration. I would love to have a green bean like yours but I don’t have anyway to sign up for CAC since they have been closed to new members for something like 6 months.
That orange peel textured surface is so cool
You should have waited longer for more people to tell you the bottom coin is clearly superior before revealing that it's yours.
I do like your coin, and I think it could re-grade 67.
(As a fairly new poster with a generic avatar and only 15 posts, you can expect to be treated with skepticism for a while. You should upload an avatar and stick around.)