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Who are the Authorized Buyers?

OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

Who are the authorized buyers that can buy and sell bullion from the mint and how many are there?

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't do anything with the US mint but searched their site and found this. Is this what you are asking about?

    https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/bullion-authorized-purchasers.html

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Authorized Purchasers of United States Mint Bullion Coins:

    UNITED STATES
    A‑Mark Precious Metals, Inc.
    American Precious Metals Exchange (APMEX)
    Coins & Things, Inc. (CNT)
    Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas
    Fidelitrade, Inc.
    Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc.
    Manfra, Tordella, & Brookes, Inc. (MTB)
    ScotiaMocatta (Scotia Bank)
    StoneX Bullion
    The Gold Center

    EUROPE
    Bayerische Landesbank
    Deutsche Bank AG

    FAR EAST
    Tanaka Kinkinzoku

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So how does someone like JM Bullion compete with APMEX? - just wondering :)

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2023 2:48PM

    @1630Boston said:
    So how does someone like JM Bullion compete with APMEX? - just wondering :)

    Sad part is APMEX has about the highest premiums of all the online dealers. You'd think by cutting out the middle man they would be among the lowest. If they are paying $2.35 over spot for an ASE they shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sell to the public at a $15/oz premium. Seems criminal to me.

    American Eagle Silver Bullion
    United States Mint Authorized Purchasers are charged the LBMA Silver Price plus a $2.35 per coin premium.
    Minimum ordering requirement: 25,000 ounces
    American Eagle Gold Bullion
    United States Mint Authorized Purchasers are charged the LBMA PM Gold Price plus a percentage premium as follows:
    1-ounce: 3%
    1/2-ounce: 5%
    1/4-ounce: 7%
    1/10-ounce: 9%
    Minimum ordering requirement: 1,000 ounces
    American Eagle Platinum Bullion
    United States Mint Authorized Purchasers are charged the LBMA PM Platinum Price plus $65 per coin.
    Minimum ordering requirement: 100 ounces.
    American Eagle Palladium Bullion
    United States Mint Authorized Purchasers are charged the LBMA PM Palladium Price plus a 6.25% premium.
    Minimum ordering requirement: 100 ounces.
    https://www.usmint.gov/news/consumer-alerts/business-guidelines/authorized-purchaser-program

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2023 2:56PM

    @1630Boston said:
    So how does someone like JM Bullion compete with APMEX? - just wondering :)

    As I understand it, JM Bullion is a wholly-owned subsidiary of A-Mark, one of the APs.


    Source: https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/a-mark-and-jm-bullion-unveil-cybermetals-an-online-platform-to-enable-digital

    Edited

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    savoyspecialsavoyspecial Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said "...they shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sell to the public at a $15/oz premium. Seems criminal to me"

    and it would be....if they forced you to buy them

    www.brunkauctions.com

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @savoyspecial said:
    @blitzdude said "...they shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sell to the public at a $15/oz premium. Seems criminal to me"

    and it would be....if they forced you to buy them

    "Congressionally authorized, American Eagle Bullion Coins are minted and issued by the United States Mint. They are intended to provide investors with a convenient and cost-effective way to invest in precious metals"

    50-100% premiums are not cost effective. The mint should cease doing business with them. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    cagcrispcagcrisp Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A Mark has a minority interest in Sunshine Mining.

    Sunshine Mining is one of four suppliers of precious metals planchets for the United States Mint..

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins & Things here in MA. Hes one of the authorized dealers. Used to be a place I bought my coins. His dad ran the coin business. Now the coin shop is gone and its just the son doing the precious metals thing.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    NJCoinNJCoin Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2023 4:24PM

    @savoyspecial said:
    @blitzdude said "...they shouldn't be allowed to turn around and sell to the public at a $15/oz premium. Seems criminal to me"

    and it would be....if they forced you to buy them

    This ^^^. It's a market, and they are in business to make money.

    When the "public" agrees that a $15/oz premium is excessive, it will stop buying at that price, and the premium will come back to earth. It's nothing more than a function of the mint being unable to satisfy demand, which makes what I learned in Econ 101 to be something other than BS.

    Supply < Demand = increased price to clear the market. If the dealers did not grab this mark-up, their buyers would. Just like all the flippers do here when the mint releases limited mintage collector coins where the demand exceeds the available supply.

    Premiums will come back down when the supply of silver blanks catch up with demand. Not before.

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    OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lilolme said:
    I don't do anything with the US mint but searched their site and found this. Is this what you are asking about?

    https://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/bullion-authorized-purchasers.html

    @blitzdude said:
    Authorized Purchasers of United States Mint Bullion Coins:

    UNITED STATES
    A‑Mark Precious Metals, Inc.
    American Precious Metals Exchange (APMEX)
    Coins & Things, Inc. (CNT)
    Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas
    Fidelitrade, Inc.
    Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc.
    Manfra, Tordella, & Brookes, Inc. (MTB)
    ScotiaMocatta (Scotia Bank)
    StoneX Bullion
    The Gold Center

    EUROPE
    Bayerische Landesbank
    Deutsche Bank AG

    FAR EAST
    Tanaka Kinkinzoku

    Thanks! Very interesting! Only 10 in the US and 13 in total. Great name for a business: Coins & Things!!!

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Authorized Purchasers of United States Mint Bullion Coins:

    UNITED STATES
    A‑Mark Precious Metals, Inc.
    American Precious Metals Exchange (APMEX)
    Coins & Things, Inc. (CNT)
    Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas
    Fidelitrade, Inc.
    Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc.
    Manfra, Tordella, & Brookes, Inc. (MTB)
    ScotiaMocatta (Scotia Bank)
    StoneX Bullion
    The Gold Center

    Of the above, the only companies who appear to sell directly to retail buyers are A-Mark (JM Bullion) and APMEX. A quick look at the websites of the others don't reveal a way to purchase a single specific item from them (a 2023 silver eagle, for example).

    A-Mark (JM Bullion) wants $39.43 for one, APMEX wants $39.56.

    FWIW...

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No different from any market.... Inventory acquired, pricing set. If it sells, good... If not, reduce the price.... If selling well, increase the price... Businesses must make a profit. Cheers, RickO

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    stawickstawick Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Authorized Purchasers of United States Mint Bullion Coins:

    UNITED STATES
    A‑Mark Precious Metals, Inc.
    American Precious Metals Exchange (APMEX)
    Coins & Things, Inc. (CNT)
    Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas
    Fidelitrade, Inc.
    Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc.
    Manfra, Tordella, & Brookes, Inc. (MTB)
    ScotiaMocatta (Scotia Bank)
    StoneX Bullion
    The Gold Center

    EUROPE
    Bayerische Landesbank
    Deutsche Bank AG

    FAR EAST
    Tanaka Kinkinzoku

    Just curious, but anybody know which of these Mike Meczak (sp?) from HSN is associated with? He often claims to be an AP anyway.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:
    Authorized Purchasers of United States Mint Bullion Coins:

    UNITED STATES
    A‑Mark Precious Metals, Inc.
    American Precious Metals Exchange (APMEX)
    Coins & Things, Inc. (CNT)
    Dillon Gage Inc. of Dallas
    Fidelitrade, Inc.
    Jack Hunt Coin Broker, Inc.
    Manfra, Tordella, & Brookes, Inc. (MTB)
    ScotiaMocatta (Scotia Bank)
    StoneX Bullion
    The Gold Center

    Of the above, the only companies who appear to sell directly to retail buyers are A-Mark (JM Bullion) and APMEX. A quick look at the websites of the others don't reveal a way to purchase a single specific item from them (a 2023 silver eagle, for example).

    A-Mark (JM Bullion) wants $39.43 for one, APMEX wants $39.56.

    FWIW...

    And it's worth considering that the cost of the coin is not the total cost structure for the operation. If the buy at $3 over and sell at $5 over, they are probably losing money. This is especially true on a purchase of 1 or 2 coins.

    1. Apmex offers free shipping, so the premium has to include shipping.
    2. They take credit cards, so they have to include 3% for that.
    3. They have to pay the staff and other overhead.
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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    And it's worth considering that the cost of the coin is not the total cost structure for the operation. If the buy at $3 over and sell at $5 over, they are probably losing money. This is especially true on a purchase of 1 or 2 coins.

    1. Apmex offers free shipping, so the premium has to include shipping.
    2. They take credit cards, so they have to include 3% for that.
    3. They have to pay the staff and other overhead.

    I agree with your overarching point.

    However, with respect to cc payments, APMEX routinely charges ~4.0% more at check-out (i.e., the customer pays this incremental cost directly).

    For example, currently on a 2023 ASE:

    Source: https://www.apmex.com/product/258627/2023-1-oz-american-silver-eagle-coin-bu

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    And it's worth considering that the cost of the coin is not the total cost structure for the operation. If the buy at $3 over and sell at $5 over, they are probably losing money. This is especially true on a purchase of 1 or 2 coins.

    1. Apmex offers free shipping, so the premium has to include shipping.
    2. They take credit cards, so they have to include 3% for that.
    3. They have to pay the staff and other overhead.

    I agree with your overarching point.

    However, with respect to cc payments, APMEX routinely charges ~4.0% more at check-out (i.e., the customer pays this incremental cost directly).

    For example, currently on a 2023 ASE:

    Source: https://www.apmex.com/product/258627/2023-1-oz-american-silver-eagle-coin-bu

    Fair enough. I've only ever bought from them on ebay.

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    OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    APMEX routinely charges ~4.0% more at check-out

    Wow, didn't know they accept Crypto for payment now. That's Crypto with a (?) ...

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Onastone said:

    @MetroD said:

    APMEX routinely charges ~4.0% more at check-out

    Wow, didn't know they accept Crypto for payment now. That's Crypto with a (?) ...

    That's crypto with a link to information.

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Onastone said:
    Wow, didn't know they accept Crypto for payment now. That's Crypto with a (?) ...

    @jmlanzaf said:

    That's crypto with a link to information.

    And here is the information:

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @Onastone said:
    Wow, didn't know they accept Crypto for payment now. That's Crypto with a (?) ...

    @jmlanzaf said:

    That's crypto with a link to information.

    And here is the information:

    I'm a little surprised at DOGE.

    time to resurrect the crypto thread. Lol

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    I wonder what it takes to become a buyer. If someone is wealthy enough and willing to purchase in such large quantities could anyone do it?

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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2023 5:02PM

    @Watchtower said:
    I wonder what it takes to become a buyer. If someone is wealthy enough and willing to purchase in such large quantities could anyone do it?

    $10M net worth, 5 year continuous history as an established precious metals wholesaler for starters (and thats just to peddle gutter)
    https://www.usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/AP-Criteria-Silver-Bullion.pdf

    Edit: Up the net worth to 25M if you want to deal in real PMs.
    https://www.usmint.gov/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/AP-Criteria-Gold-Platinum-Palladium-Bullion.pdf

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    That doesn't sound impossible for a corporation. As an individual I'm out but for someone who deals in such things it sounds highly profitable.

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