@gumby1234 said:
Probably worth $50 more when selling now, but what did it cost for shipping, insurance and CAC?
$75. But the main reason I sent it in is I prefer to have my coins with a CAC sticker. I also needed to know if this coin was a B or C coin for my own personal knowledge to learn more about what coins pass or don’t pass CAC
Well it’s not a C coin, but how do you know it’s not a B coin since CAC stickers both A & B coins equally?
I don’t understand your question
The CAC sticker confirms that the coin is either an A or a B coin, so I’m not following how you would know whether this coin is a B coin (since it could be an A or B coin).
I am thinking the mark by the sunray would preclude A. Most of the people who responded to this thread thought it was either overgraded or not of CAC quality. But I am not a professional grader so perhaps I am am not realizing that perhaps I am too tough on the coin nobody has seen it in hand on the forum except me
Here's another problem. Like with the grading services, CAC standards have changed over time, and some will argue that they have become inconsistent as well. Your coin may have beaned today, but you have no guarantee that if you sent in tomorrow, it would also bean. It's an attractive coin, but with its chatter, I'm surprised that it beaned.
So I would not treat your coin beaning as a form of 'education' as to what they are looking for in a MS 65 Walker. For that, I'd ask someone I trust who does a lot of volume with CAC. Just my experience.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
The OP said he wants to own CAC coins. In most cases, until you get into coins over $500, it will be cheaper (and much easier) to just buy them that way.
Yes, I agree. The problem for us long term collectors is all the coins we already own that do not have a CAC. Sending them in for a hopeful CAC is often cheaper than replacing the coin without a CAC.
@gumby1234 said:
Probably worth $50 more when selling now, but what did it cost for shipping, insurance and CAC?
$75. But the main reason I sent it in is I prefer to have my coins with a CAC sticker. I also needed to know if this coin was a B or C coin for my own personal knowledge to learn more about what coins pass or don’t pass CAC
Well it’s not a C coin, but how do you know it’s not a B coin since CAC stickers both A & B coins equally?
I don’t understand your question
The CAC sticker confirms that the coin is either an A or a B coin, so I’m not following how you would know whether this coin is a B coin (since it could be an A or B coin).
I am thinking the mark by the sunray would preclude A. Most of the people who responded to this thread thought it was either overgraded or not of CAC quality. But I am not a professional grader so perhaps I am am not realizing that perhaps I am too tough on the coin nobody has seen it in hand on the forum except me
Here's another problem. Like with the grading services, CAC standards have changed over time, and some will argue that they have become inconsistent as well. Your coin may have beaned today, but you have no guarantee that if you sent in tomorrow, it would also bean. It's an attractive coin, but with its chatter, I'm surprised that it beaned.
So I would not treat your coin beaning as a form of 'education' as to what they are looking for in a MS 65 Walker. For that, I'd ask someone I trust who does a lot of volume with CAC. Just my experience.
I think part of the problem is commenting on coins from pictures is difficult and often times inaccurate. My I phone photos are very tough on contact marks as I don’t have great experience taking pictures. In hand the mark by the sun is not as brutal as suggested in the photo
. Also the coin’s incredibly bright luster will tend to accentuate the marks more perhaps than an average or even above average coin as the luster is in a class of its own. I don’t feel the result from CAC is lucky in anyway
@Elcontador said:
Here's another problem. Like with the grading services, CAC standards have changed over time, and some will argue that they have become inconsistent as well.
Grades are opinions, not facts. Standards don't need to change or become inconsistent for opinions to change. Or for different people to have different opinions.
@david3142 said:
I think you are overestimating the value learned from one data point.
Plus, you can get the same info for free by looking at lots of coins with and without stickers (especially if you knew which had been tried and failed).
The OP said he wants to own CAC coins. In most cases, until you get into coins over $500, it will be cheaper (and much easier) to just buy them that way.
I think he learned from more from this discussion than the result of the submission.
And I think you are underestimating how 1 data point combined with multiple others contribute to the learning. LOL........... Why you decided to make a big deal of this and rip into him and then me. Well. LOL again..........................
@david3142 said:
I think you are overestimating the value learned from one data point.
Plus, you can get the same info for free by looking at lots of coins with and without stickers (especially if you knew which had been tried and failed).
The OP said he wants to own CAC coins. In most cases, until you get into coins over $500, it will be cheaper (and much easier) to just buy them that way.
I think he learned from more from this discussion than the result of the submission.
And I think you are underestimating how 1 data point combined with multiple others contribute to the learning. LOL........... Why you decided to make a big deal of this and rip into him and then me. Well. LOL again..........................
Not intending to rip into, or offend anyone. We don’t disagree on the value that CAC adds, I was just suggesting you can get a similar education for less money. You can go to lot viewing and cover up the label/sticker and do that 100 times in about 20-30 minutes. I would say (and have said) the same thing about looking at graded coins vs. submitting them yourself. It seems you put more weight on submitting to CAC yourself rather than looking at already stickered (or failed) coins. Perhaps you discuss the coins with John and are able to gain additional insight. If you do, it would certainly make sense why you feel that way.
As someone mentioned on another thread if John is willing to talk about why certain coins stickered (or didn’t), that would certainly be very helpful, far beyond a simple yes/no.
@david3142 said:
I think you are overestimating the value learned from one data point.
Plus, you can get the same info for free by looking at lots of coins with and without stickers (especially if you knew which had been tried and failed).
The OP said he wants to own CAC coins. In most cases, until you get into coins over $500, it will be cheaper (and much easier) to just buy them that way.
I think he learned from more from this discussion than the result of the submission.
And I think you are underestimating how 1 data point combined with multiple others contribute to the learning. LOL........... Why you decided to make a big deal of this and rip into him and then me. Well. LOL again..........................
I didn’t see him making a big deal out of this or ripping anyone. But rather, his posts seemed sensible and might be of help to others.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting. The two separate photos of the 1943 walker shows vastly different looks on this coin. The first one looks to be a horror the second ….very nice.
A large photo can make coins look worse than they actually are.
For example ….the first photo seems to display long scratches between the sun rays when it just might just be a toning streak?
The dreaded right field shows reeding kind of bag mark which preclude it from a 66 not a 65. However, the severity of such bag marks plus the possible chatter along Liberty’s left leg which determine whether CAC determines such coin is an A or a B.
Cannot be sure strictly from a photo.
With the cac fee more than doubling, what would submitters here consider the minimum value of a certified coin to send to them from a strict and hard nosed business perspective?
@logger7 said:
With the cac fee more than doubling, what would submitters here consider the minimum value of a certified coin to send to them from a strict and hard nosed business perspective?
There are a lot of collectors who just want the CAC and a new $35 fee plus postage both ways will be a hard swallow. From a financial point of view, at least $500 and only with a shipment of 20 coins. There are some dealers who ask more than $35 over the CAC price guide for CAC coins.
@logger7 said:
With the cac fee more than doubling, what would submitters here consider the minimum value of a certified coin to send to them from a strict and hard nosed business perspective?
The minimum value shouldn’t be the main consideration. The upside in potential added value and the estimated chances of being successful in obtaining a CAC sticker are far more important.
For example, you might have a $2000 coin that would bring only $2025, if stickered. At the same time, you could have a $200 coin that would bring $250, if stickered. Under those scenarios, the $200 coin would be a better candidate for submission than the $2000 coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@logger7 said:
With the cac fee more than doubling, what would submitters here consider the minimum value of a certified coin to send to them from a strict and hard nosed business perspective?
The minimum value shouldn’t be the main consideration. The upside in potential added value and the estimated chances of being successful in obtaining a CAC sticker are far more important.
For example, you might have a $2000 coin that would bring only $2025, if stickered. At the same time, you could have a $200 coin that would bring $250, if stickered. Under those scenarios, the $200 coin would be a better candidate for submission than the $2000 coin.
Agreed. It's not just a simple minimum value of the coin. From a business perspective you have to take into account the probability of the success as well at the potential upside. Is the reward worth the risk? Is the extra investment loss on a failure going to result in having to hold the coin for a significant time or take a loss? Is the upside more than the cost of acquisition if successful?
Comments
Here's another problem. Like with the grading services, CAC standards have changed over time, and some will argue that they have become inconsistent as well. Your coin may have beaned today, but you have no guarantee that if you sent in tomorrow, it would also bean. It's an attractive coin, but with its chatter, I'm surprised that it beaned.
So I would not treat your coin beaning as a form of 'education' as to what they are looking for in a MS 65 Walker. For that, I'd ask someone I trust who does a lot of volume with CAC. Just my experience.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Yes, I agree. The problem for us long term collectors is all the coins we already own that do not have a CAC. Sending them in for a hopeful CAC is often cheaper than replacing the coin without a CAC.
I think part of the problem is commenting on coins from pictures is difficult and often times inaccurate. My I phone photos are very tough on contact marks as I don’t have great experience taking pictures. In hand the mark by the sun is not as brutal as suggested in the photo
. Also the coin’s incredibly bright luster will tend to accentuate the marks more perhaps than an average or even above average coin as the luster is in a class of its own. I don’t feel the result from CAC is lucky in anyway
Grades are opinions, not facts. Standards don't need to change or become inconsistent for opinions to change. Or for different people to have different opinions.
Just sayin'.
And I think you are underestimating how 1 data point combined with multiple others contribute to the learning. LOL........... Why you decided to make a big deal of this and rip into him and then me. Well. LOL again..........................
Not intending to rip into, or offend anyone. We don’t disagree on the value that CAC adds, I was just suggesting you can get a similar education for less money. You can go to lot viewing and cover up the label/sticker and do that 100 times in about 20-30 minutes. I would say (and have said) the same thing about looking at graded coins vs. submitting them yourself. It seems you put more weight on submitting to CAC yourself rather than looking at already stickered (or failed) coins. Perhaps you discuss the coins with John and are able to gain additional insight. If you do, it would certainly make sense why you feel that way.
As someone mentioned on another thread if John is willing to talk about why certain coins stickered (or didn’t), that would certainly be very helpful, far beyond a simple yes/no.
@spacehayduke said:
I didn’t see him making a big deal out of this or ripping anyone. But rather, his posts seemed sensible and might be of help to others.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Interesting. The two separate photos of the 1943 walker shows vastly different looks on this coin. The first one looks to be a horror the second ….very nice.
A large photo can make coins look worse than they actually are.
For example ….the first photo seems to display long scratches between the sun rays when it just might just be a toning streak?
The dreaded right field shows reeding kind of bag mark which preclude it from a 66 not a 65. However, the severity of such bag marks plus the possible chatter along Liberty’s left leg which determine whether CAC determines such coin is an A or a B.
Cannot be sure strictly from a photo.
With the cac fee more than doubling, what would submitters here consider the minimum value of a certified coin to send to them from a strict and hard nosed business perspective?
There are a lot of collectors who just want the CAC and a new $35 fee plus postage both ways will be a hard swallow. From a financial point of view, at least $500 and only with a shipment of 20 coins. There are some dealers who ask more than $35 over the CAC price guide for CAC coins.
The minimum value shouldn’t be the main consideration. The upside in potential added value and the estimated chances of being successful in obtaining a CAC sticker are far more important.
For example, you might have a $2000 coin that would bring only $2025, if stickered. At the same time, you could have a $200 coin that would bring $250, if stickered. Under those scenarios, the $200 coin would be a better candidate for submission than the $2000 coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Agreed. It's not just a simple minimum value of the coin. From a business perspective you have to take into account the probability of the success as well at the potential upside. Is the reward worth the risk? Is the extra investment loss on a failure going to result in having to hold the coin for a significant time or take a loss? Is the upside more than the cost of acquisition if successful?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin