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Update: CAC RESULTS IN. I Need To Know. MS 65 Walker NEWP.Sent To CAC
Walkerlover
Posts: 706 ✭✭✭✭
Please advise me if 1) you like this coin as a MS 65, and if you think it’s solid as a 65 and 2) do you think it will get a green bean at CAC?
On the positive side I love the original looking fresh blazing luster and OGH, on the negative there are a few marks in the right obverse field and the one line between the sun rays. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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It’s an attractive coin, but the long hit between the sun’s rays may preclude CAC approval.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
The long mark is somewhat detracting in the pictures, but I understand it may not be as prevalent in hand. If you are worried about the mark and CAC, you may wish to play the safe hand and keep looking. If you otherwise like the coin (you said you do), and CAC isn't a deal breaker, I'd say go for it. As for whether it will CAC or not, I have no idea.
A little field chatter on most coins is about what you will get at MS65, so finding a truly clean 65 may be tough.
If it's inexpensive, you can always get it in hand, and if it doesn't meet your goals, flip it and go for another.
Good luck whatever you choose!
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An MS 66 is only slightly more expensive.
I would try to find a nicer MS 66.
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Nice strike. Great reverse. Looks like great luster.
Obverse has distractions as you note; also Liberty's neck. 64+obv/66rev. I would pass. I do not think it would CAC.
I just finished my WLH short set. Its all 65 or better ( bright white coins). Be patient, better coins are out there. BE PATIENT. It took me a year to find my last coin. 43D, and its perfect!
Are MS 66 coins with incredible original luster available if patient? This coin looks like it is from an original roll with the most amazing luster. Please let me know what you think if I can find similar. Thank you
You said =On the positive side I love the original looking fresh blazing luster and OGH
This to me looks like a WLH which was dipped at least once and not original skinned.
How can you tell. I want to learn from you. what do you see that makes you conclude that
It's not dipped out but subdued as this has a non-cartwheel flat even lustrous appearance.
Your best bet to really learn is to attend a local show just to look at as many coins in hand as you can as photos on the web only go so far.
It is a nice WLH. However, you enumerated the negatives... they will always be there, and you will see them each time you look at the coin. Better to keep looking for one that will better suit your aesthetic requirements. Cheers, RickO
A lil more... It's not uncommon for OGH 3.0 & early 3.1 series holders to have a lot of dipped coins in them. Coin World for many months in 1993 slammed toned coins slabbed as being bad since they could continue to darken in the holders. This led to a major dip craze as you could literally see dealers at show lined up at all the restroom sinks dipping prior to on site submission.
It looks like a fairly ordinary example of a very common coin. In such circumstances, when asked, I suggest being patient and more particular.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What @MFeld said.
Definitely wouldn't pay extra for the OGH, average 65 and no bean.
I like that word better.
I agree with the likelihood that CAC will reject the coin for the reasons previously indicated. If CAC certification is critical to your satisfaction, perhaps you should buy one already stickered?
This is a perfect example of what the services valued at the time, luster.
30+ years ago, when I was hunting raw walkers, I valued strike and clean mark free surfaces. When submitted, most of them came back in 4 holders. Then I’d see marred up coins like this in 5 holders. Deciding this was all bs, I switched my efforts to early dates in XF-AU. Those I could apparently understand, and were genuinely scarce to boot.
Selling off some raw remnants a couple years ago, most of them ~4 money, I was surprised to learn they later graded 5-6’s.
Rant over, back to you…..
The OGH is really the only thing it has going for it. The coin itself certainly isn’t under graded, and might not even 5 again if resubmitted raw.
The date is extremely common in true gem with blazing luster, well struck, and minimal marks. I’d look for another.
Another reason why I think the 2016 gold version is the best rendition. Full strikes with full details and most of them grade 69 or 70.
Hard pass. There is too much chatter. I don’t think it is a solid 65 and don’t think (and hope) it wouldn’t sticker. It’s a super common coin. Even MS67 coins can be had for a few hundred.
If you do like it I think the OGH will allow you to resell it a little easier than the same coin in a new holder. As @Walkerguy21D said that's what it has going for it. If it didn't have that mark between the sun's rays I personally would like it a lot more. But that mark might look very different when you actually get it. If you want a CAC 1943 I would wait for one already CAC. The premium on that particular date and mint is not astronomical.
I will say I built a complete short set and when I was done I really liked 12 of the 20 coins. So now I'm rebuilding the set with coins that I actually really like rather than filling holes. This hobby can be easy to get excited and just buy away. My advice? Wait for the coin you like the first time around and if an exceedingly common coin already has you wondering about a small mark or spot. Just wait for the next.
Ask yourself Grasshopper, is a coin really a coin if it doesn’t have a green bean ?
I think it'll fail CAC.
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Looks like a low-end 65 to me that would likely not pass CAC.
I would try to upgrade to a nice 66 it it were me. Mint State 1943 Philly Walkers were very well made, so finding a quality example is not as difficult as for other dates / mintmarks. San Francisco 1943s are another story
I can only convey to you what I see as I look and review the coin in hand. Incredible flash, cartwheel luster, no spots or dip residue. It has the most luster of any coin I have ever seen in my life and this is in a more than 25 year holder, so it’s been stable and not fooled around with. It Has to be seen in hand to be believed
In my opinion it is an ultra-common date MS63. I don't even think it would even get a 64 today. Too many marks and rubbing on the high points as well.
I’d look for one without the dings in the right field.
I would pass. It is probably a 65 but I don't love it as a 65, mostly because of the marks as noted, particularly in the right obverse field. it could CAC. CAC is not as concerned with marks as they are with originality and this coin looks original enough, in my opinion. But a MFeld suggests, I would be patient and more selective.
Tom
I would say solid for the grade but doubtful on the bean.
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?"- Calvin and Hobbes
You really can't tell from pictures. CAC will not pass coins with the slightest PVC.
If a CAC is your goal it would be better to buy one with a CAC rather than going through the process of sending it to CAC. Currently, there are 259 that have a CAC and it's price guide values them at $130. Most probably hoped for a gold CAC.
Thanks everyone for your advice. I decided to send it to CAC. I know the marks are a little strong but the amazing eye appeal and luster make up for it. I also need to know for myself wether this is a B or C coin. Coin looks somewhat better in hand as my I phone pictures can be brutal on contact marks. I will update next week when I get the results.
It is a nice lustrous MS65. I would think it would CAC. The marks keep it from 66.
Happy to report coin passed CAC today. I wasn’t that sure if it would based on the contact marks but felt the original super luster and strike would compensate for the moderately large line between the suns rays. Now I am more inclined to keep as a permanent collection piece. Otherwise if I upgrade to a better coin I now have the added CAC sticker when I sell to bring up the price.
Luster wins over contact marks, congrats.
Probably worth $50 more when selling now, but what did it cost for shipping, insurance and CAC?
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$75. But the main reason I sent it in is I prefer to have my coins with a CAC sticker. I also needed to know if this coin was a B or C coin for my own personal knowledge to learn more about what coins pass or don’t pass CAC
I must admit I'm really surprised.
Well it’s not a C coin, but how do you know it’s not a B coin since CAC stickers both A & B coins equally?
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
A 65 is worth about $125. A 66 CAC just sold for $169. At best the bean added $20 to the value of this coin. I’m glad you got the result you wanted but this seems like an extremely inefficient education to learn a tiny bit about how accurately graded 1 coin is.
I don’t understand your question
I am thinking the mark by the sunray would preclude A. Most of the people who responded to this thread thought it was either overgraded or not of CAC quality. But I am not a professional grader so perhaps I am am not realizing that perhaps I am too tough on the coin nobody has seen it in hand on the forum except me
Most (not all there are a ton of amazing graders here!) people underrate the importance of luster for a grade and focus just on contact marks. To be fair contact marks show up in pictures and luster sometimes is a guessing game.
Id take your coin over a different 65 that has less luster and fewer contact marks any day.
Congrats on your CAC result, it may not come with a financial windfall but knowledge is power.
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First time visiting this thread, and I thought that it was a looker and would CAC. I thought that JA was not accepting regular submissions at this time due to back log?
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Hmm.
Congrats, though!
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You can submit through the $35 tier
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My thoughts exactly....well maybe with a shrug thrown in.
But yes, congrats, and I learned from this as well.
True, but the education on how CAC views certain surface issues on silver walkers was worth whatever he paid for it. Will help him with guidance on more expensive Walkers in the future, small price to pay to steer him in the right direction. Certainly a better value than a Super Bowl ticket without the 49ers playing............
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I think you are overestimating the value learned from one data point.
Plus, you can get the same info for free by looking at lots of coins with and without stickers (especially if you knew which had been tried and failed).
The OP said he wants to own CAC coins. In most cases, until you get into coins over $500, it will be cheaper (and much easier) to just buy them that way.
I think he learned from more from this discussion than the result of the submission.
I am not sure I agree with your evaluation. Checking on EBAY and Great Collections most nice 65s were priced around $130 and those with CAC were priced around $200-225. 66s were priced approximately $100-150 more respectively.
The last few PCGS 65 CAC coins on GC were $136, $122, $154 so maybe $135 is a better estimate than my $125. The last 66 CACs to sell were $205, $221, $266. That $169 seems to be low although it did happen (at Heritage) just 2 months ago. Another sold in July on GC for $160. Those look to be bargains but I imagine the coins weren’t as nice.
65 non-CACs seem to fetch between $80 and $120.
I bought a number of nice and somewhat better date Walkers from an area dealer for around $50 each. Sent them off to get graded at NGC economy, got a number of MS66 results and then ran them through cac. Even with the stickers they were not worth much more than $125-150 on ebay. Very hard to justify all the submissions.