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The "well-heeled" younger coin buyers.....

FrankHFrankH Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭✭

I see in quite a few threads mention of a trend of younger coin buyers acquiring some pretty nice coins.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1086006/did-anyone-notice-at-fun/p1

This makes me wonder if these are "becoming" numismatists or "buying a fad."
Are the purchases widespread or concentrated on only certain areas? Either price or rarity?

... ?

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    Klif50Klif50 Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭

    We are seeing the same thing happening in the sports card and non-sports card collecting arena with young people populating the local and national shows and wheeling and dealing, buying and selling notable cards in droves. It's a good thing for the hobbies.

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    spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think buying a fad can be a good thing sometimes... Sure if they aren't careful they can lose money but a) it's good for the hobby and b) some of them will likely spark a real desire to learn and take on the torch of the hobby for years to come.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The real question is: Will they still be around after the market experiences a significant downturn? Only time will tell.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    Pnies20Pnies20 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2023 12:26PM

    As with anything else, it will be a fad to some and some will stay.

    A major factor on how many stay will be how established folks treat them and their experience with dealers.

    BHNC #248 … 108 and counting.

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    FrankHFrankH Posts: 773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    I can only speak for myself, but almost all of my purchases are heavily focused.

    In addition, about half of what I do in the hobby is numismatic research.

    Would you care to say what attracts you to rare coins?

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,408 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:
    I can only speak for myself, but almost all of my purchases are heavily focused.

    In addition, about half of what I do in the hobby is numismatic research.

    Research is the name of the game, Al. Gottta know what you're getting, and to me, the history behind a coin (or coin issue) is icing on the cake.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2023 2:11PM

    @291fifth said:
    The real question is: Will they still be around after the market experiences a significant downturn? Only time will tell.

    This is a great question. As we've seen with stock day traders, everyone is a genius in an up market.

    But with equities, a good trader can make money on all volatility. With coins, that isn't possible.

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Also, for what it’s worth:

    I don’t think there are many YNs that will drop a thousand dollars for a coin. Those YNs that were mentioned in the other thread seem to be anomalies- I know I sure couldn’t afford to do that.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am a YN and I specialize in CBHs and collect by die variety. I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads. CBHs seem to be better priced and significantly more interesting to study, and in result, I have the fever.

    This is an interesting comment and analysis by someone new to the Hobby. Two things come to mind: I think if you're intrigued by die varieties and that sort of thing that CBH's would be the easiest place to begin, the references are good, the coins tend to be easy to identify and are quite numerous. Secondly, I don't really think the silver dollar market and toned coins are fads, those are pretty well established.

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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    The real question is: Will they still be around after the market experiences a significant downturn? Only time will tell.

    Exactly! I have a feeling many will cut losses and move on. This could actually create a sharp drop in coin values very quickly before the market recovers. Potentially a significant buying opportunity awaits? I’m gonna go out on a limb and say most yn’s would be classified as having “weak hands”.

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    cladkingcladking Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2023 1:57PM

    @291fifth said:
    The real question is: Will they still be around after the market experiences a significant downturn? Only time will tell.

    In my experience very few give up collecting because of market corrections even where they are severe. Most give it up when they suffer large losses due to poor buying decisions or questionable value when they bought. They give it up when they suffer large losses of any kind because of things outside of market forces. Like gamblers or stock market pickers we are more likely to double down than give up.

    Tempus fugit.
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    keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2023 2:01PM

    @FlyingAl said:
    Also, for what it’s worth:

    I don’t think there are many YNs that will drop a thousand dollars for a coin. Those YNs that were mentioned in the other thread seem to be anomalies- I know I sure couldn’t afford to do that.

    Dozens of anomalies? Most of them have gotten their start from parents that are funding their activities. $1000 seems to be nothing to many of them.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FrankH said:

    Are the purchases widespread or concentrated on only certain areas? Either price or rarity?

    It's my inference they like NCLT in noticeably higher proportion versus the collector base generically, but this is an inference only. I don't have data to back this belief.

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    Glen2022Glen2022 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭✭

    What is/are CBHs

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pruebas said:

    @291fifth said:
    The real question is: Will they still be around after the market experiences a significant downturn? Only time will tell.

    This is a great question. As we've seen with stock day traders, everyone is a genius in an up market.

    This is what happened in South Africa but it was with new "collectors" generically. It's evident from the change in the price level roughly starting in 2004 and ending maybe a few years after prices peaked around YE 2011.

    Noticeably smaller market versus the US though.

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is considered a 'younger buyer'? anyone under 40?

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2023 2:31PM

    @1madman said:

    @291fifth said:
    The real question is: Will they still be around after the market experiences a significant downturn? Only time will tell.

    Exactly! I have a feeling many will cut losses and move on. This could actually create a sharp drop in coin values very quickly before the market recovers. Potentially a significant buying opportunity awaits? I’m gonna go out on a limb and say most yn’s would be classified as having “weak hands”.

    I think "weak hands" are far more prevalent than just potentially YN, but that's way outside the scope of this thread and forum. I haven't seen comprehensive pre and post pandemic price comparisons though.

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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Glen2022 said: What is/are CBHs

    Capped Bust Half-Dollars.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Glen2022 said:
    What is/are CBHs

    Capped bust halfs.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    1madman1madman Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen said:
    What is considered a 'younger buyer'? anyone under 40?

    No, think of them as teenagers, early 20s at the oldest. That’s the group in question who’ve seemed to have popped up as dealers/market makers.

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    ponderitponderit Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Reading this thread my thoughts go to Speety. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times at our local coin show. He was a great kid and a great collector.

    Successful BST transactions with Rob41281, crazyhounddog, Commoncents, CarlWohlford, blu62vette, Manofcoins, Monstarcoins, coinlietenant, iconbuster, RWW,Nolawyer, NewParadigm, Flatwoods, papabear, Yellowkid, Ankur, Pccoins, tlake22, drddm, Connecticoin, Cladiator, lkeigwin, pursuitofliberty
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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keyman64 said:

    @FlyingAl said:
    Also, for what it’s worth:

    I don’t think there are many YNs that will drop a thousand dollars for a coin. Those YNs that were mentioned in the other thread seem to be anomalies- I know I sure couldn’t afford to do that.

    Dozens of anomalies? Most of them have gotten their start from parents that are funding their activities. $1000 seems to be nothing to many of them.

    Yes. A dozen or two out of thousands of YNs are anomalies.

    I would also say that for a large majority of young people, investing tens to hundreds of thousands in the rare coin market is not the best choice for that amount of money. Also, who the heck just gives their kids that kind of money?

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,758 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ponderit said:
    Reading this thread my thoughts go to Speety. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times at our local coin show. He was a great kid and a great collector.

    My first thought was Cameron Keefer.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
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    BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jacrispies said:
    I am a YN and I specialize in CBHs and collect by die variety. I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads. CBHs seem to be better priced and significantly more interesting to study, and in result, I have the fever.

    I would like to hear what other YNs buy for their personal collections.

    Very understandable. I still remember the first time I saw CBHs as an 8-yo and how much they blew my mind. I loved the lettered edge.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    I am a YN and I specialize in CBHs and collect by die variety. I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads. CBHs seem to be better priced and significantly more interesting to study, and in result, I have the fever.

    This is an interesting comment and analysis by someone new to the Hobby. Two things come to mind: I think if you're intrigued by die varieties and that sort of thing that CBH's would be the easiest place to begin, the references are good, the coins tend to be easy to identify and are quite numerous. Secondly, I don't really think the silver dollar market and toned coins are fads, those are pretty well established.

    Agree. If @jacrispies is a YN as stated, then the silver dollar market and toned coins have been around longer than they have. In fact the silver dollar market has likely been around longer than their parents and more. Strange comment to state "the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads.".

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lilolme said:

    @Maywood said:
    I am a YN and I specialize in CBHs and collect by die variety. I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads. CBHs seem to be better priced and significantly more interesting to study, and in result, I have the fever.

    This is an interesting comment and analysis by someone new to the Hobby. Two things come to mind: I think if you're intrigued by die varieties and that sort of thing that CBH's would be the easiest place to begin, the references are good, the coins tend to be easy to identify and are quite numerous. Secondly, I don't really think the silver dollar market and toned coins are fads, those are pretty well established.

    Agree. If @jacrispies is a YN as stated, then the silver dollar market and toned coins have been around longer than they have. In fact the silver dollar market has likely been around longer than their parents and more. Strange comment to state "the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads.".

    Oh, give him a break? Many of us here have strong opinions, even if they are perhaps overstated. BTW, all my coins are older than I am. ;)

    I don't see Morgans ever going "out of style", but toned Morgan valuations may crash when/if the economy crashes.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
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    keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,455 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FlyingAl said:

    @keyman64 said:

    @FlyingAl said:
    Also, for what it’s worth:

    I don’t think there are many YNs that will drop a thousand dollars for a coin. Those YNs that were mentioned in the other thread seem to be anomalies- I know I sure couldn’t afford to do that.

    Dozens of anomalies? Most of them have gotten their start from parents that are funding their activities. $1000 seems to be nothing to many of them.

    Yes. A dozen or two out of thousands of YNs are anomalies.

    I would also say that for a large majority of young people, investing tens to hundreds of thousands in the rare coin market is not the best choice for that amount of money. Also, who the heck just gives their kids that kind of money?

    At Winter FUN it was a couple dozen out of how many active dealers at the show? Not anomalies when you think of it in terms of these numbers.

    As for the question about who gives their kids this type of money…based on the thread subject, I would say it is the well healed. :wink:

    Also, I have a 17 and 18 year old. I’d like to think I have raised them well enough. Had my daughter been interested, I could easily give her thousands of dollars, along with guidance, and not worry about it. My son is perfectly trustworthy but would require a lot more guidance since he has Down Syndrome.

    Also, in one of my transactions with a YN, it was requested that I mail the bank check to the YN but I made the check out to the father. I had no problems with this. I got my coin and it is one of my favorite purchases from last year.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keyman64 said:

    @FlyingAl said:

    @keyman64 said:

    @FlyingAl said:
    Also, for what it’s worth:

    I don’t think there are many YNs that will drop a thousand dollars for a coin. Those YNs that were mentioned in the other thread seem to be anomalies- I know I sure couldn’t afford to do that.

    Dozens of anomalies? Most of them have gotten their start from parents that are funding their activities. $1000 seems to be nothing to many of them.

    Yes. A dozen or two out of thousands of YNs are anomalies.

    I would also say that for a large majority of young people, investing tens to hundreds of thousands in the rare coin market is not the best choice for that amount of money. Also, who the heck just gives their kids that kind of money?

    At Winter FUN it was a couple dozen out of how many active dealers at the show? Not anomalies when you think of it in terms of these numbers.

    As for the question about who gives their kids this type of money…based on the thread subject, I would say it is the well healed. :wink:

    Also, I have a 17 and 18 year old. I’d like to think I have raised them well enough. Had my daughter been interested, I could easily give her thousands of dollars, along with guidance, and not worry about it. My son is perfectly trustworthy but would require a lot more guidance since he has Down Syndrome.

    Also, in one of my transactions with a YN, it was requested that I mail the bank check to the YN but I made the check out to the father. I had no problems with this. I got my coin and it is one of my favorite purchases from last year.

    I was referencing the dealer YNs vs. YNs in general, which is where I think we're getting our differences here :smile:. We also have to take into account that YNs don't generally travel as much due to cost and school, or at least that's what I understand from my experience (and observing what my friends do).

    I suppose the whole loans from parents thing is a bit of foreign concept to me. I was never really given any money to spend how I pleased outside of a birthday gift or something similar (I had to find a way to earn money myself). I can see how it's done, but I can't quite understand why :smile:. It's just me :smile:.

    As to your last point, I think that's perfectly fine as well and I can think of several reasons that may be done without large amounts of money changing hands.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess I was more impressed with the 20-something I mentioned in my FUN report, that was buying raw mid grade large cents for his date set, then the well heeled rippers and flippers negotiating big deals. But I also realize that it’s all part of the same market and hobby.

    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    I am a YN and I specialize in CBHs and collect by die variety. I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads. CBHs seem to be better priced and significantly more interesting to study, and in result, I have the fever.

    This is an interesting comment and analysis by someone new to the Hobby. Two things come to mind: I think if you're intrigued by die varieties and that sort of thing that CBH's would be the easiest place to begin, the references are good, the coins tend to be easy to identify and are quite numerous. Secondly, I don't really think the silver dollar market and toned coins are fads, those are pretty well established.

    By morgan dollars and toned coins being market fads, I was referring to current prices due to increased interest during COVID. As you likely saw, common GSAs went from about $230 to $450 a pop, a substantial increase in value. Toned coins setting record prices (not necessarily morgans). Of course, prices have settled somewhat since, but those were fads that have continuing interest and price increases to this day. Whether or not this is defined as a fad is not important.
    @lilolme Hopefully this explanation wasn't too strange to comprehend.

    @davewesen said:
    What is considered a 'younger buyer'? anyone under 40?

    I was actually curious about this too because I would like to get my terms straight. I turned 19 recently so I just assumed that I fell under the category. :smile:

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

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    KliaoKliao Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like seeing the variety of what the mint has produced over the course of their history, so I am more of a type collector. In addition, I'm doing more buying and selling to make a little money in between as well as continue in training my eye for quality coins and improving my grading skills. :)

    Young Numismatist/collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jacrispies said:

    @Maywood said:
    I am a YN and I specialize in CBHs and collect by die variety. I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads. CBHs seem to be better priced and significantly more interesting to study, and in result, I have the fever.

    This is an interesting comment and analysis by someone new to the Hobby. Two things come to mind: I think if you're intrigued by die varieties and that sort of thing that CBH's would be the easiest place to begin, the references are good, the coins tend to be easy to identify and are quite numerous. Secondly, I don't really think the silver dollar market and toned coins are fads, those are pretty well established.

    By morgan dollars and toned coins being market fads, I was referring to current prices due to increased interest during COVID. As you likely saw, common GSAs went from about $230 to $450 a pop, a substantial increase in value. Toned coins setting record prices (not necessarily morgans). Of course, prices have settled somewhat since, but those were fads that have continuing interest and price increases to this day. Whether or not this is defined as a fad is not important.
    @lilolme Hopefully this explanation wasn't too strange to comprehend.

    @davewesen said:
    What is considered a 'younger buyer'? anyone under 40?

    I was actually curious about this too because I would like to get my terms straight. I turned 19 recently so I just assumed that I fell under the category. :smile:

    .
    @lilolme Hopefully this explanation wasn't too strange to comprehend.

    Not at all. However, your initial comment and the one I was responding to was:

    "I don't understand the silver dollar market, toned coins, and other market fads."

    I was not able to interpret this to be anything close to the long description that you just posted. The first statement is about the "silver dollar market" and related to a "market fads".

    So reading those words, I still find that to be a strange comment (without the longer later clarifying statement). So I stated that the silver dollar market has been around longer than you and probably your parents. As far as I know you believed the silver dollar market was a fad.

    Notice in my statement I did not saying to degenerate you.
    Not sure why you felt the need to throw in:
    @lilolme Hopefully this explanation wasn't too strange to comprehend.

    I see this type of stuff but never understood the need.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lilolme Glad we got to clear up the misunderstanding :)

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

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    Project NumismaticsProject Numismatics Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2023 6:39PM

    There are several podcast interviews with some of the new YN dealers that are worth a listen - the coinworld and coinit podcasts have both done multiple episodes featuring YN dealers. I’ve listened to several and just like many of us, they have often been collecting since elementary age and are deeply passionate and knowledgeable.

    While it may seem odd they are so well financed, some of today’s biggest numismatic names who cut their teeth in the 80s were similarly well financed at the time.

    Here are two examples:

    https://www.coinitpodcast.com/1909193/10588036-not-quite-yet-an-adult-but-definitely-a-coin-dealer

    https://www.coinitpodcast.com/1909193/10344878-am-i-a-coin-dealer-chatting-with-collector-turning-dealer-noah-lehmann-haupt-of-numismattack-trading

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not long ago, the forum was subject to wailing and moaning about not enough young people in the hobby. At that time, I tried to point out the large number of internet coin people (Instagram etc.) that were mostly younger generations. This was mostly ignored... Well, now they are appearing at shows, with knowledge and money. No surprise to me... The hobby is alive and thriving.... Cheers, RickO

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