How to NOT dip a coin 101

spyglassdesign

Step 1: Have a coin with artificial toning
Step 2: Buy EZ*Est
Step 3: Dilute roughly 10 to 1.
Step 4: Have distilled water.
Step 5: Be patient, dipping coin for a few seconds at a time and gradually getting longer until you start see results, dipping in distilled water between each dip
Step 6: Get impatient
Step 7: Drop coin in 100% solution
Step 8: Panic... leave coin in for 5 seconds or more
Step 9: Wash coin
Step 10: Realize you are already in for a penny, so go in for a pound and dip some more just to see what happens.
Step 11: Keep coin as gentle reminder of how not to dip.

sigh

Side note, with all that toning I never noticed the die crack on the reverse between the A and the L of HALF.

124Spider

In a show of how subjective these things are, I like the "after" far more than I like the "before." Yes, even I would be able to figure out that it has been cleaned, but it's quite attractive cleaned (and was, IMO, horrible before).

spyglassdesign

@124Spider said:
In a show of how subjective these things are, I like the "after" far more than I like the "before."

Yeah I do too overall, but it did reveal a lot of surface damage that the toning was attempting to hide.

Elcontador1

To je sraciek.

slider23

There is not much you could have done as the coin was going to be a Details coin either way.

spyglassdesign

@slider23 said:
There is not much you could have done as the coin was going to be a Details coin either way.

At least this way, if it ever was GRADED (unlikely) it would be cleaned instead of AT.

[Deleted User]

@spyglassdesign said:
Step 1: Have a coin with artificial toning
Step 2: Buy EZ*Est
Step 3: Dilute roughly 10 to 1.
Step 4: Have distilled water.
Step 5: Be patient, dipping coin for a few seconds at a time and gradually getting longer until you start see results, dipping in distilled water between each dip
Step 6: Get impatient
Step 7: Drop coin in 100% solution
Step 8: Panic... leave coin in for 5 seconds or more
Step 9: Wash coin
Step 10: Realize you are already in for a penny, so go in for a pound and dip some more just to see what happens.
Step 11: Keep coin as gentle reminder of how not to dip.

sigh

Side note, with all that toning I never noticed the die crack on the reverse between the A and the L of HALF.

Now, leave it sit somewhere like a nightstand for about a year, year and a half, flip it every few months, and maybe it'll start growing a new skin. It'll be brown with a circam look at first, then slowly deepen to a medium to dark grey. It may take 3-4 years to get to gray from brown.

Kove

People typically don't artificially tone the gem, problem free coins. They are trying to cover something up while at the same time trying to earn a color premium.

I think the lesson is to automatically assume AT is hiding either a problem or an excessively beat up coin.

hfjacinto

I would have kept the coin toned and put it an album. That’s a great coin for a 7070. I don’t believe every coin needs to get slabbed or graded. Dipping it (unless the toning is really ugly) just doesn’t generally improve the coin.

mr1931S

Well, at least this is not the crime against humanity that I committed on several occasions by applying Ferric Chloride to my dateless Buffalo Nickels

logger7

Skip Fazzari has a workshop on that very topic at the FUN show. Would never have taken the risk. Coin was worth professional advice, cheaper at Anacs or Icg.

davewesen

any luster when you started or just a colored XF?

spyglassdesign

@davewesen said:
any luster when you started or just a colored XF?

Well, the toning had reflectivity but I can't say for sure if there was luster underneath. It was very thick.

TomB

Truly, I don't think you did a poor job at all. The starting coin was rather compromised to begin with and no doubt had an aggressive treatment prior to your obtaining it that meant any future work would have to unravel a lot of layers. The coin certainly isn't a gem, but it was never going to be one again anyway. I think you did well.

By the way, this looks like the GR-12 (JR-4) die marriage, which is a slightly better die marriage that Dick and I had as an R4 in the reference work we sold about a decade ago. If so, it is a tougher die marriage, but historically I could not get any real premium for R4 Reeded Edge half dollars.

spyglassdesign

@TomB said:
Truly, I don't think you did a poor job at all. The starting coin was rather compromised to begin with and no doubt had an aggressive treatment prior to your obtaining it that meant any future work would have to unravel a lot of layers. The coin certainly isn't a gem, but it was never going to be one again anyway. I think you did well.

By the way, this looks like the GR-12 (JR-4) die marriage, which is a slightly better die marriage that Dick and I had as an R4 in the reference work we sold about a decade ago. If so, it is a tougher die marriage, but historically I could not get any real premium for R4 Reeded Edge half dollars.

Great info thanks!

I was shocked how fast that cleaner worked! I was dipping for up to 20 seconds in the 1/10th solution... And it only took 5 seconds in the full solution to eat it all off.

Meltdown

Always interesting to see these experiments.

joeykoins

I don't know? I prefer the coin before the dip.
It appears that it would have straight graded in that color?
Once again, this debate will live on. To each his own.
Your list is correct in some points but not all.
My purchase before toning. It was said to be cleaned.

Here is my coin after the toning process.
It straight graded!

AU 58
The opposite from your project.

spyglassdesign

@joeykoins interesting. If you look closely it was obvious the toning was artificial though... Streaky in areas, some hard lines, almost metallic looking in hand.

Perhaps as @Atcarroll mentioned it will tone over in time.

[Deleted User]

@spyglassdesign said:
@joeykoins interesting. If you look closely it was obvious the toning was artificial though... Streaky in areas, some hard lines, almost metallic looking in hand.

Perhaps as @Atcarroll mentioned it will tone over in time.

This one was unnaturally bright when I got it, 2017ish i think. After a couple years on the nightstand next to my bed it looked better. Not perfect, but better.

LanceNewmanOCC

@TomB said:
By the way, this looks like the GR-12 (JR-4) die marriage, which is a slightly better die marriage that Dick and I had as an R4 in the reference work we sold about a decade ago. If so, it is a tougher die marriage, but historically I could not get any real premium for R4 Reeded Edge half dollars.

i've only loosely kept up with the GR since the inception (or at least my awareness of them) and am wondering if your comment applies to graded coins with a nice look in say xf or better (MAYBE with a sticker)(MAYBE with official attribution on label)?

Broadstruck

Nice to see that all of that horrific clown makeup came completely off.

LanceNewmanOCC

@joeykoins said:
I don't know? I prefer the coin before the dip.

.
if you are referring to the artificially toned CBH in the OP, part of the reason a lot of us don't like stuff like that isn't just because it isn't a pretty toning pattern (to most) it is the fact of knowing there were probably unacceptable harsh chemicals involved AND most likely will start turning at some point, not for the better. also knowing someone can just churn these (ugly imo) coins out, PLENTY on ebay, knowing any goomba can do it, really turns us off to them and of course, with classic coins, they are usually quite problematic and it is also quite deceptive intent usually.

if the methods let the coins be stable and SAFE (non toxic chemicals) and the people buying them KNOW getting a premium back out of them is risky and they want to put their money into them knowing full well what they are doing, i wouldn't stand in their way. people burn their money on stuff ALL the time. i personally think the premiums on mint products these days is asinine BUT if everyone is happy and the mint keeps running, i am just one little ol person with his little ol opinion. to each their own. caveat emptor, ya know?

i'd buy the coin after dipping at the right price as it is very meaty cbh.

NOW, i know there are myriad coins in tpg holders with HIGHLY questionable toning and time will tell the tale with those.

i've owned a few coins long enough to see them start to turn (POSSIBLY some ms70 examples) i don't know for sure if that was what was used or not but i highly suspect it because that is usually what is used that yields such a result for copper coins. i wish i had the before pics still so i could post the difference and the time frame but it was only a year or two, raw.

FranklinHalfAddict

@124Spider said:
In a show of how subjective these things are, I like the "after" far more than I like the "before." Yes, even I would be able to figure out that it has been cleaned, but it's quite attractive cleaned (and was, IMO, horrible before).

100% agree. The coin looked absolutely disgusting before and doesn’t look all that bad afterward.

spyglassdesign

@FranklinHalfAddict said:

@124Spider said:
In a show of how subjective these things are, I like the "after" far more than I like the "before." Yes, even I would be able to figure out that it has been cleaned, but it's quite attractive cleaned (and was, IMO, horrible before).

100% agree. The coin looked absolutely disgusting before and doesn’t look all that bad afterward.

Thanks. I guess I wasn't too sure what the expect and felt it ended up over dipped since it ended up left in for about twice as long as I intended to.

coastaljerseyguy

So bottom line, neither dipping method used is suggested. The 10:1 solution was too weak to do anything and the pure EZest and 5 seconds dip was too strong. Maybe a 2-3 second dip in a 1:1 solution with water followed by a dip in water & baking soda to neutralize the acid then rinsed with distilled water would have removed the artificial toning but not stripped away metal and luster.

Goldminers

Coins that old deserve a little more respect. To me it is sad to see them getting improperly messed with.

ricko

That was a horrible AT job... super unnatural and ugly. Looks far better after the dip. Yep, also you learned something about dipping. Cheers, RickO