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Interpreting Dealer Coin Photos - Inspired by the Recent Peace Dollar Auction thread

BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 4, 2023 8:12PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Many of you probably saw this thread concerning the supposed auction sale of a 1921 Peace dollar. Several comments were made regarding the surprisingly high auction result, legitimacy of the auction, the photography used, and such.

I found the photography technique of this seller to be particularly interesting. Several photos from their site can be seen in the above thread. I was curious enough that I went to their eBay store and purchased a Peace dollar (at a small "educational" premium) to allow for a comparison of their work and my usual photography technique.

Many commented that the seller apparently uses several lighting colors to achieve their trademark look. They also tend to give everything a prooflike look. Here are the photos from the listing for the coin I purchased:

image
image
image

The coin was advertised as a "* 1925-P * NEAR+ GEM BU MS PEACE SILVER DOLLAR * FRESH FROM ORIGINAL ROLL *

The final photo with the torn-open coin wrapper is apparently a stock photo that they show on all of their Peace dollar offerings.

As you can see, the coin has some apparent issues. I suspected that I would receive a coin with some vertically-oriented obverse hairlines, a few obverse left-field scuffs, decent strike, decent luster, and a reasonably nice reverse. I was under no illusion that the coin was going to be an actual gem BU coin, or that it was from an actual "original roll" but for $42 it looked good enough to provide material for an interesting thread.

First, let me be perfectly clear about a few things. I'm not trying to disparage this particular seller. Though I find it to be a bit quirky, their photography is better than many. They also clearly have an excellent return policy. They do ask that you decide if you're going to keep the coin before breaking the seal they put over the flip, and to me that's entirely reasonable. Their seller reputation on eBay is excellent. I question the veracity of "original roll" Peace dollars, but I suppose it's possible they somehow acquired some old secondary bank-wrapped rolls. The quick (and admittedly meaningless) research I did shows that the bank names printed on the rolls actually exist, have been around for many decades, and they're in reasonable proximity to the seller's physical location.

Here are the photos I took of the coin I received:

image

Overall, the coin is more-or-less as expected. The reverse is actually quite nice, and by itself should have no trouble deserving an MS65 grade. The left field obverse scuffs aren't so deep and are actually less noticeable in-hand than their photos would suggest. Luster is reasonably good and unbroken - this is not the "oh-so-common" slider so commonly seen. The obverse has enough scattered hits and scuffs that I would typically see it as in the MS63/64 range, except for one thing......

The coin does indeed have evidence of a pretty significant wipe across the majority of the obverse. It's a darn shame too, because otherwise it would be a $100 coin.

When I tilt the coin just-so.... it shows this:

image

You can easily see the evidence of the wipe in this photo, but it's actually worse in-hand. I was initially somewhat hopeful that it might be only die-polish lines, but they extend across the devices and fields with small interruptions at the "shoulder" transition points from high to low.

In all, I think the photography for this particular coin, while somewhat unusual, lends itself well enough to interpretation. The nonsense with the colored lighting produces some flashy visual interest, but those colors aren't really on the coins they're selling. The 1921 coin in the other thread was a bit dark for optimal interpretation.

A couple of final thoughts. I purchase coins from a variety of auction houses and dealers. After a while, if you pay attention, you can easily (but not always perfectly) predict how the coin will look in-hand from what you can see in the photo. It often doesn't rise to the level of conscious thought, but I have developed an intuitive sense of how Stacks, HA, Legend, PCGS, and GC photograph their coins. Various dealers usually use the same setup over time and this also lends itself to predictable interpretation. The websites of Harry Laibstain, John Agre, Gerry Fortin, Doug Winter, and Larry Shepherd come to mind. Their individual photo techniques are incredibly varied, but the consistency in their photos makes it possible to understand what you will likely be getting.

It's probably also true that taking many thousands of coin photographs helps a person interpret the images they see on a computer monitor.

Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nice work. :+1:

    while it technically is possible to see the issues in images like this, it is really just about impossible to know for sure if what you are looking actually is what you are looking at and really is only confirmable after a purchase and in-hand evaluation, as you have done.

    there is one reason and one reason alone why we see coins imaged like this and otherwise deceptive methods when i'm quite certain the sellers CAN do better but choose not to and that is, the buyers buy and are happy, somehow. i truly don't understand how some of the sellers do as well as they do with the stuff they sell, with images like this. SURE, it kinda looks neat and perhaps the buyers truly are happy paying well over what they ought for some trickery images. what can ya do, this is earth baby; if it started to make sense and people started making sensible decisions en-masse, THEN i would worry...

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • WalkerloverWalkerlover Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭

    @Pedzola said:
    Quality photos have been incredibly important for me since I started collecting. I won't buy a coin that I have to guess at what it looks like.

    I think photos like those above are complete BS. They are clearly intended to make the coin appear different, probably to hide faults. I don't think there is any excuse for this - saying that you can interpret from the pictures what the coin must actually look like is justifying deceptive behaviour.

    One of the things I absolutely hate about coin collecting is the constant need to protect yourself from bad actors and varying degrees of scumbaggery. I think intentionally poor photos is an all too common form that collectors shouldn't accept.

    You can argue that no photos truly show a coin accurately, but the images above go far beyond a favorable lighting angle.

    I agree and having bought a few coins on EBay I think many sellers use lighting and camera angles to over exaggerate the eye appeal and visual aspects of their coins leading to great disappointment.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've found that lights and angles can change everything.

  • nwcoastnwcoast Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent work and post!
    Thank you for this effort to better illustrate and describe the lengths some sellers go to when marketing their goods.
    This very educational post, may be very helpful to many when navigating the sometimes bumpy waters of online coin purchases.

    Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2023 5:44AM

    Here is a similar image of a Jeff nickel(1942 P) I purchased from a seller on ebay. Learning experience. The nickel I received was dull, scratched and may have been uncirculated. Sorry no photos of the actual nickel remain as this was in Dec 2021. This sellers nickels since have all looked exactly like this.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • FranklinHalfAddictFranklinHalfAddict Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2023 6:00AM

    I haven’t read every reply in the thread yet so I don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but…
    The lines in the highlighted areas appear to be die polish lines.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM ... Thank you for a very interesting and informative post. Certainly most of us are aware of deceptive coin photography, it has been discussed here often. Your information - and experiment - shows that pictures and technique can be interpreted in some cases. We should also remember, that the pictures are not always intentionally deceptive. Cheers, RickO

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bryce, thank you for an excellent thread and agreed on all counts.

    Over the years, I’ve seen many eBay sellers with 100% feedback, which, based on their listings, appears far from warranted. But they have mostly happy buyers, who mistakenly think they’re getting good deals. At the same time, they know when to allow returns by the unhappy customers, in order to avoid negative feedback.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think this is a very interesting and informative thread--thanks for doing it! I know you said that you don't want to disparage the seller and noted their good feedback, but I have a few thoughts to consider:

    1- The coin is not Gem BU (Peace dollars commonly have nicer reverses than obverse--just like Morgans--and the lower obverse grade will set the grade)

    2- All the more so, a wiped coin is not fresh from a roll

    3- There are other sellers known to have shady practices who have very good feedback. I think this is a mix of a generous return policy so if someone catches them, they are treated well, and the fact that many seasoned buyers know to stay away, so the clientele that get the coins are generally less informed and don't know they've been had.

    All said, I know you went into this knowing what to expect, but I think what you've shown is that the seller is willfully taking advantage of buyers, and that's not acceptable. I understand we're only seeing one coin in this thread, but I think it's safe to assume that their inventory is as consistent as their photography and descriptions.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2023 2:50PM

    @airplanenut said:
    I think this is a very interesting and informative thread--thanks for doing it! I know you said that you don't want to disparage the seller and noted their good feedback, but I have a few thoughts to consider:

    Well, I take back what I said. I was initially being cautious. When I made this post I didn't have direct proof that they were reselling coins from TPG "details" holders as "fresh from rolls". On the other thread, an occurrence of this was shared by an astute forum member and now, I think we can all say what we're really thinking.

    If they're willing to lie about one coin, it's safe to assume that they're simply running a deceptive and dishonest business.

    Interesting how these type have learned to overcome and and defeat the "buyer protections" that exist with this particular auction house. Really, nobody is watching any of this.

  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 12,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What is nice about that seller's photos is they are easily recognizable, and thus easily skipped when browsing search results. Actually, I try to exclude that seller from search results, but forget sometimes.

  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭✭✭

    EBay reviews are "happy horseshit" now. They don't receive enough negative reviews from unhappy customers. I understand that eBay is now structured to reduce negative reviews by forcing the buyer to communicate with the seller if they're unhappy with the purchase. I usually judge the transaction by the ease of the return (always positive) in those situations but will comment briefly on the coin quality if the descriptions or photos are misleading.

    Is the OP going to write a negative review of his purchase?

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nah, I got what I expected.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Nah, I got what I expected.

    And that sums up the problem with this seller: you're knowledgeable enough to know what to expect; their target customer isn't.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Outstanding post. If I ran the forum, I'd start a "Newbies Must Read" category, and carefully select posts like this one to populate it. Anybody who wanted to join would have to answer affirmatively to a question asking whether they had read every post in that category before being granted membership. Thanks for taking the time to make a solid contribution to every new collector's education.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • The_Dinosaur_ManThe_Dinosaur_Man Posts: 834 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent write-up. Creating intentionally deceptive photographs can sometimes be just as difficult as generating realistic imagery that matches expectations. A semester's study in the techniques used in professional cinematography can yield all sorts of artsy results.

    Custom album maker and numismatic photographer, see my portfolio here: (http://www.donahuenumismatics.com/).

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Outstanding post. If I ran the forum, I'd start a "Newbies Must Read" category, and carefully select posts like this one to populate it. Anybody who wanted to join would have to answer affirmatively to a question asking whether they had read every post in that category before being granted membership. Thanks for taking the time to make a solid contribution to every new collector's education.

    Successful BST transactions: EagleEye, Christos, Proofmorgan,
    Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins

    Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't an optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.

    My mind reader refuses to charge me....
  • redraiderredraider Posts: 122 ✭✭✭✭

    This is CanyonCityCoins. I can tell from the pictures. This guy once bought a bunch of PCGS UNC detail Altered Color Indian Head Cents from Rick Snow and then did the same picture of an old paper roll unwrapped with the coins he cracked out in the image. He is a crook and a deceiver and I avoid him at all costs.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I haven’t read every reply in the thread yet so I don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but…
    The lines in the highlighted areas appear to be die polish lines.

    .
    there are situations where it gets hairy because a coin(s) has both, as i believe this one does. peace dollars and morgans are quite known for die polish lines and unfortunately PLS so seeing both on them isn't a rare occurrence.

    i only make this post so that you know you can trust your eyes a bit although i'm not sure which lines you are calling what but just wanted to confirm i see both in that image. :)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2023 9:32AM

    Some DPLs are possible, of course. The ones around “WE” seem likely candidates. I’ll hit it with a 10x loupe when I get home.

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Deciphering what's in a bad photo is a great way to make huge profit and / or avoid a huge loss.

    I bring sellers photos into Photoshop and use my magic to figure out what's going on.

    I do this almost daily.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pretty important in your particular niche, I would imagine.

  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 21,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ErrorsOnCoins said:
    Deciphering what's in a bad photo is a great way to make huge profit and / or avoid a huge loss.

    I bring sellers photos into Photoshop and use my magic to figure out what's going on.

    I do this almost daily.

    If you paste multiple times and then offset the various layers, you can make some pretty sweet errors out of bad photos.

    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • FranklinHalfAddictFranklinHalfAddict Posts: 650 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2023 8:07PM

    @BryceM said:

    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I haven’t read every reply in the thread yet so I don’t know if this has already been mentioned, but…
    The lines in the highlighted areas appear to be die polish lines.

    >

    No. Those are NOT die polish lines. DPLs are elevated, and are usually only present in the fields, which are the highest parts of the coin die. When DPLs do occur in large, flat areas of the fields, they're also raised. On this coin, the lines shown are incuse, and are not seen in the parts of the fields adjacent to the devices where the higher material protected the surfaces of the fields from the harsh cleaning.

    Die polish lines are common on Peace dollars. Most commonly they're located in areas where clashing of the dies is common. One of these common locations is around the shoulder of the Eagle. True DPLS look like this. They extend right up to, but not across, the devices:

    image

    In the other thread that I referenced in the first post, this seller was recently shown to be selling a "coin from an original bank roll" which was recently sold in a Heritage Auction in a details "re-engraved obverse" ANACS holder. With verifiable proof that they are lying in their advertising, it stands to reason that their photography technique is deliberately deceptive too.

    Apart from that, it's also quite obvious that an excellent seller rating at this particular auction site is of zero protective value. Zero. ZERO!!!

    Look at the way the shadows and highlights hit the lines in question in the areas I highlighted compared to the devices. Shadow on left and highlight on right.
    What was the method of polishing dies during that era? It’s not like the relief of the peace Dollar is several inches. Is it impossible that whatever was used to polish the dies didn’t make it the 0.05” down into the recessed area of the die?
    Honestly just trying to learn here, because to me the lines in the area I highlighted look 100% raised, even more so when zoomed in.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2023 1:45PM

    @FranklinHalfAddict

    I have no idea what instrument was used to polish dies in the 1920s.

    I've been looking at the coin through a 5X and 10X Eschenbach loupe for the last 5 minutes.

    The reverse is fine - no die polish lines nor evidence of a wipe/cleaning.

    On the obverse, the immediate first impression is that of a broad wipe with parallel (north-south) hairlines covering the majority of the left half of the coin. This affects the portrait most severely, but can also be seen across the left field. It's a bit difficult to put into words, but it just looks "cleaned." The little scratches extend up and over fields and devices without any regard to elevation. Rubbing back and forth a few times with with a dirty rag would do this. A fine buffing wheel could also do this.

    There are some areas that could be die polish lines, but nothing stands out as clearly meeting those criteria except for around "WE" and some very faint lines left of the "Y" in "LIBERTY". Could there be some fine die polish lines in the larger areas of the left obverse field?.... yeah, maybe.

    However, think about why die-polish lines occur. The most common and obvious reason is to repair damage to extend the working life of a die. Clashes in the production of Peace dollars were pretty common and a huge number of VAMS can be attributed thereby. Clashes can show up in the devices, at times, but not so commonly. Something would have to cause damage down in the recessed areas of the die to produce this. The highest part of the softer of the two dies is usually affected first. The highest part of the die produces the lowest part of the finished coin, the fields.

    There's simply no reason for a repairman to go to the effort to run a tool around the recessed areas of the devices - especially not across Liberty's cheek. Even if he did, the work would be irregular, instead of uniform, and show breaks around contour changes.

    When I put a loupe on DPLs, their true identity is usually obvious with a single glance. The "scratches" are usually coarse enough to easily see that they are raised. Hairlines are often finer, especially on this coin, and they do not appear to be raised above the surface. But..... if I stare at hairlines long enough..... I start talking myself into seeing DPLs when there really aren't any.

    Also, it is often impossible to tell from a single photo if something is raised or incuse. Interpreting shadows can sometimes lead you 100% in the wrong direction.

    Hope that helps. If anyone wants to pay for shipping both ways, I'm happy to send the coin out so you can look at it in-hand.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What did you decide? are you going to look at any more of their auctions or just pass them by?

    Some sellers have a strong following so that most of their auctions go for too much money.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @davewesen

    If you're asking me, you're joking, right?

  • coinnutcoinnut Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excellent post BryceM. I did the same thing last year with nearly the same results that you got. I bought two cheap Morgans just to test the waters. Sure enough the coins I received were totally white and nothing special. Fortunately mine had not been wiped. Probably worth what I paid but now will probably have to pay to get them slabbed.

  • Eric_BabulaEric_Babula Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    Nah, I got what I expected.

    Well, kinda yes and kinda no. You weren't expecting the wiping, were you? Return. Neg or Neutral feedback, with comments regarding misleading pics and that the coin was wiped/cleaned. Just a thought.

    Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!

  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very educational post, thanks for doing this.

  • Shane6596Shane6596 Posts: 759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I saw this sellers pics before i understood toning. Saw a morgan they had with all the colors and was like...WOW!! Then dug deeper and found out it was the lighting they used. I havent bought any coins from them. Not saying i wont, but i know to look deeper at the coin being sold.

    It is a clever way to get attention when scrolling through the bay. It definitely stands out.

    This thread has been informative.

    Successful BST transactions with....Coinslave87, ChrisH821, Walkerguy21D, SanctionII.......................Received "You Suck" award 02/18/23

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FullHorn said:
    Excellent post! I agree that taking many pictures of coins and experimenting with lights offers great insight when viewing the images taken by others.

    The "amber" color in the original picture is also seen on coins that "spilled" out of the roll. Looks like it came in at an angle.

    The original picture hides (or lessens) the apparent flaws inherent on the surface. Good cloak job, I say!

    True, the wipe can't be seen in the original picture. Pretty sneaky if you ask me.

    It just proves the assertion that coins cannot be properly graded from a computer screen.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • Eric_BabulaEric_Babula Posts: 413 ✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:
    @Eric_Babula

    As I said on my first post, I did expect hairlines. They’re visible in the sellers photos if you look. I didn’t buy the coin for my collection. I bought it as an educational exercise. For that purpose, it excelled.

    You are correct! This has been a VERY educational thread! Thanks!

    Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mark Feld said:

    "They have mostly happy buyers, who mistakenly think they’re getting good deals."

    Nothing can be truer than this. The seller knows what they are doing. Premeditation. "Preying" on novices and newbies is no good for anyone, mostly the victims.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks Bryce. Your post just reinforces my belief that if I or someone I trust, can't physically see the coin, or get it with a no questions asked return guaranty, I don't buy it.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a very educational thread for sure. Pretty much anyone responding here would have enough knowledge to expect less of a coin than what is being shown in that photo. That being said, that's a seller I would pass on for sure. One can gamble by bidding on their wares and hope for a big prize, but for the most part they're going to get a turd whose photo has been fudged enough to make it look like a Godiva chocolate.

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes questionable ebay sellers use awful photo editing tactics to snare newbies. That is a fact most buyers become aware in short order. Damaging to the hobby, but not impactful.

    A more concerning way to snare newbies are TV marketers and the "mystery box" promoters. In these cases they are enabled by stakeholders and market leaders. Potentially more damaging to the hobby because of mass exposure, not just singular sellers here and there.

    Good thread, need more focus on other questionable and more impactful tactics that snare newbies.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fathom said:
    Yes questionable ebay sellers use awful photo editing tactics to snare newbies. That is a fact most buyers become aware in short order. Damaging to the hobby, but not impactful.

    A more concerning way to snare newbies are TV marketers and the "mystery box" promoters. In these cases they are enabled by stakeholders and market leaders. Potentially more damaging to the hobby because of mass exposure, not just singular sellers here and there.

    Good thread, need more focus on other questionable and more impactful tactics that snare newbies.

    What do you mean by "Damaging to the hobby, but not impactful."?

    i think that a large sized group of "singular sellers", such as those who do business on eBay, can collectively damage the hobby as much as if not more than the stakeholders and market leaders.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I dislike the word "impactful". Use "influential." :s:)

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • Riley1955Riley1955 Posts: 136 ✭✭✭

    @ms71 said:
    Outstanding post. If I ran the forum, I'd start a "Newbies Must Read" category, and carefully select posts like this one to populate it. Anybody who wanted to join would have to answer affirmatively to a question asking whether they had read every post in that category before being granted membership. Thanks for taking the time to make a solid contribution to every new collector's education.

    I agree. As a "newbie" I'm all over these kinds of post.

  • fathomfathom Posts: 1,513 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @fathom said:
    Yes questionable ebay sellers use awful photo editing tactics to snare newbies. That is a fact most buyers become aware in short order. Damaging to the hobby, but not impactful.

    A more concerning way to snare newbies are TV marketers and the "mystery box" promoters. In these cases they are enabled by stakeholders and market leaders. Potentially more damaging to the hobby because of mass exposure, not just singular sellers here and there.

    Good thread, need more focus on other questionable and more impactful tactics that snare newbies.

    What do you mean by "Damaging to the hobby, but not impactful."?

    i think that a large sized group of "singular sellers", such as those who do business on eBay, can collectively damage the hobby as much as if not more than the stakeholders and market leaders.

    Overpriced merch is impactful.

    I think the legitimacy of a marketer is based somewhat on perception. Individual ebay sellers would not qualify in the minds of many new buyers as legitimate retailers representing the hobby.

    Retailers that utilize mass media to entice new buyers at exhorbitant pricing and slick marketing claiming direct support from whatever large entity can give the perception they represent the hobby marketplace.

    Bottom line overpricing is bad for the hobby, whether its photo enhancement or slick marketing it chases too many potential collectors.

    Sunlight is a disinfectant. Integrity preserves interest and values.

    Good for the hobby that thread participants care about this stuff.

  • FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that we shouldn't forget that not all editing is bad. Here's and example of two slab shots - the first has no editing whatsoever and the second is a composite slab shot with brightness, exposure, and color adjustments. Each adjustment is made to make the coin look like it does in hand, therefore adding a benefit rather than a detractor.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,549 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FA, I like your editing. It was impactful consequential.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very informative post Bryce. I have purchased a few coins in my past that looked toned, but in reality were just made to look toned by the lighting. I was even tempted by this eBay seller's pics but waited for someone like you to set the record straight. I too was going to buy a low value coin just out of curiosity. At least his coins are not AT????

    OINK

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