PCGS $20 Liberty AU55 cac gold, real grade?

logger7

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275459746779?hash=item4022ae2bdb:g:NlMAAOSwHnNjIWVw&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAoBqy4kNxqAUblwHiqD/gKFDZw9hCIk1PWZIqmNOfy+y9RXpT/ATENcAWbcR1l4gNqifl3Bo+JI/mfEErj7pftUuQr3YK0He0K++yLvbSN0B90da5l12ItxAo/hsplP2ygzy3nqAcKygmq8igmBupxFBsXcFRxaLVABu3qk2Yd3sir36XmQnzKXX8OIa5dcvyu9Sy5nNKE0C7G6V4h/zZvIw=|tkp:Bk9SR-yVk9KoYQ&nma=true&si=EZGOdkLOHyde22f00TMNpROCbag%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

How would this coin grade today, is an AU55 cac gold sticker really an AU58 or an Unc.?

PeakRarities

Pictures not really good enough to grade it but I would say it’s a solid 58. Liberty”s face is battered pretty badly but I don’t think I’d be that surprised if I saw it in a low unc holder, my opinion just from those pictures.

FlyingAl

I could see it in an UNC holder, maybe 61 or 62.

steveben

hard to tell from the photos, but based on what i see and the gold cac, probably 60 or 61.

VanHalen

I submitted a generic $5 Lib in a PCGS AU55 holder some years ago expecting a green sticker. It came back with a gold sticker. Mine was too beat up to be a 58. CAC saw it as a MS61 was my guess. I didn't ask their opinion and will in the future.

Project Numismatics

Looks 58 or 62 but impossible to tell which from these photos.

Cougar1978

I agree it’s a nice 55. Beyond that if it were submitted and did make Unc probably about a 61.

It really does not appear to have the luster of an MS coin IMO - an issue for our hosts to decide. It sold for $3212 on the Bay. CPG for AU 55 CAC $2520. The seller did well. An MS61 CPG would be $2560 non CAC. Certainly the gold sticker is a frenzy with a lot of buyers. Reminds me of the beanie babies thing.

MidLifeCrisis

The real grade is PCGS AU55 CAC Gold Sticker.

They are both just opinions.

The only opinions that really matter are the buyer's and the seller's.

logger7

@Cougar1978 said:
I agree it’s a nice 55. Beyond that if it were submitted and did make Unc probably about a 61.

It really does not appear to have the luster of an MS coin IMO - an issue for our hosts to decide. It sold for $3212 on the Bay. CPG for AU 55 CAC $2520. The seller did well. An MS61 CPG would be $2560 non CAC. Certainly the gold sticker is a frenzy with a lot of buyers. Reminds me of the beanie babies thing.

It sold for a low Unc price which is how someone willing to spend the money saw it: https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1905-20/9047

Cougar1978

Yes it’s their money lol. I am sure the seller is thrilled. It sold for about $700 over the CPG MV for MS61.

lermish

58+

blitzdude

53 looks about right. RGDS!

Edit 55 not 53. THKS!

jdimmick

It looks like a 58, but usually cac wont sticker a coin in gold, unless 1.7 to 1.9 grades higher, in this case a 61, but it dosnt look 61, It appears I see some light actual wear, not friction. course again were viewing a photo, it may look quite nice in hand??

MFeld

@jdimmick said:
It looks like a 58, but usually cac wont sticker a coin in gold, unless 1.7 to 1.9 grades higher, in this case a 61, but it dosnt look 61, It appears I see some light actual wear, not friction. course again were viewing a photo, it may look quite nice in hand??

I don’t think the grading/stickering is nearly that precise, though I agree with the AU58 part. (Edited to add: But I’ll add a plus.)

logger7

This is the reverse. I'm not seeing any wear on that. Light friction on the obverse, but the fields look commensurate with a coin closer to Unc. than AU.

asheland

A safe bet at AU58.

ricko

The listing is gone now.... but thanks for the reverse picture above. I would think AU58 for sure from the pictures... The reverse appears to have nice luster. I think we will see this coin again... likely in a new slab. Cheers, RickO

skier07

JA probably thinks the coin at a minimum is uncirculated.

PeakRarities

@skier07 said:
JA probably thinks the coin at a minimum is uncirculated.

I wouldn’t make that assumption, CAC is the least forgiving when it comes to friction or wear. Hard to tell from the photos though

BillJones

I could see this coin in an MS-61 holder. I have seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders.

I would rather have a “real AU-58” with a smoother face and a very light rub. I guess it got the gold CAC because CAC saw it as an AU-58 or low end Unc. I think that the gold sticker is marginal.

lermish

@DeplorableDan said:

@skier07 said:
JA probably thinks the coin at a minimum is uncirculated.

I wouldn’t make that assumption, CAC is the least forgiving when it comes to friction or wear. Hard to tell from the photos though

@BillJones said:
I could see this coin in an MS-61 holder. I have seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders.

I would rather have a “real AU-58” with a smoother face and a very light rub. I guess it got the gold CAC because CAC saw it as an AU-58 or low end Unc. I think that the gold sticker is marginal.

I agree with both of you. There are plenty of 61s and 62s that should truly be 58++; amazing looking coins that nonetheless have friction or wear and that by definition are not mint state.

The gold sticker just means at least solid for the next grade up. That is a 58 or 58+. I think it is a mistake to assume or even think that JA thinks the coin is uncirculated.

MFeld

@BillJones said:
I could see this coin in an MS-61 holder. I have seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders.

I would rather have a “real AU-58” with a smoother face and a very light rub. I guess it got the gold CAC because CAC saw it as an AU-58 or low end Unc. I think that the gold sticker is marginal.

In discussing a coin in an AU55 holder, how could you “see this coin in an MS 61 holder”, have “seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders” and at the same time, “think that the gold sticker is marginal”?

Pokermandude

58 at best

dhikewhitney

@skier07 said:
JA probably thinks the coin at a minimum is uncirculated.

Gold CAC = at least one grade higher which would be AU58. That is what I think the grade should be.

BillJones

@MFeld said:

@BillJones said:
I could see this coin in an MS-61 holder. I have seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders.

I would rather have a “real AU-58” with a smoother face and a very light rub. I guess it got the gold CAC because CAC saw it as an AU-58 or low end Unc. I think that the gold sticker is marginal.

In discussing a coin in an AU55 holder, how could you “see this coin in an MS 61 holder”, have “seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders” and at the same time, “think that the gold sticker is marginal”?

“How could I see this coin in an MS-61 holder?”

I’ve had a lesser, lower grade coin, in an MS-63, green CAC holder, offered to me. I passed. Since the asking price was $13,000, which was 30% higher than the “Coin Facts” suggested retail price, passing was a reasonable reaction. The dealer, who made the offer, often flips coins from his website in a matter of days. He held the piece for nearly four months and asked for offers on-line. Finally he sold it to another dealer at a major show.

I think i made the right decision.

Why I would view the gold CAC sticker as “marginal?” I would not pay the AU-58 price for that coin because of the bag marks on the portrait. A green CAC holder is appropriate. Gold CAC is, to me, marginal.

MFeld

@BillJones said:

@MFeld said:

@BillJones said:
I could see this coin in an MS-61 holder. I have seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders.

I would rather have a “real AU-58” with a smoother face and a very light rub. I guess it got the gold CAC because CAC saw it as an AU-58 or low end Unc. I think that the gold sticker is marginal.

In discussing a coin in an AU55 holder, how could you “see this coin in an MS 61 holder”, have “seen gold coins with more rub in the fields get MS-62, even 63 holders” and at the same time, “think that the gold sticker is marginal”?

“How could I see this coin in an MS-61 holder?”

I’ve had a lesser, lower grade coin, in an MS-63, green CAC holder, offered to me. I passed. Since the asking price was $13,000, which was 30% higher than the “Coin Facts” suggested retail price, passing was a reasonable reaction. The dealer, who made the offer, often flips coins from his website in a matter of days. He held the piece for nearly four months and asked for offers on-line. Finally he sold it to another dealer at a major show.

I think i made the right decision.

Why I would view the gold CAC sticker as “marginal?” I would not pay the AU-58 price for that coin because of the bag marks on the portrait. A green CAC holder is appropriate. Gold CAC is, to me, marginal.

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn’t asking how you could see the coin as a 61. I was asking how, if you could see it as a 61, you could also think the gold sticker was marginal. But you ended up answering that - thanks.