I am assembling an Indian Cent Grading Set in soapbox ANACS holders, going no lower than G04. I'm trying to include key dates, rare varieties, off-center examples, and overdates. I have nine so far, with a recent eBay pickup, 1894/94 in VF20. The 1869/69 is F12. The only proof coin, a PF61BN is housed in a Gen. 1 ANA holder. The goal is a Box of Twenty with a nice MS66RD as the cherry. I started this little project, pre-pandemic.
I loved Indian Cents when I was high school. I finally finished the set. I lost my shirt on it when I sold them in the early 1970s. Today, in my old age, I would have enjoyed having that set. I could have formed one when I bought a near complete set when I was dealer, but I sold them.
Today I cherry pick the pieces I want. I have a Civil War era set, and I have nice examples of the 1908-S and 1909-S.
And an 1864-L
That concludes my holdings in key date Indian Cents.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@winesteven said: @Tomthemailcarrier posted his lovely 1877 above. What he didn’t tell you (but I will), is that he was kind enough to sell me his prior one (in a higher grade than his current one), shown here, for my “Unique” IHC set. Tom, thanks again so VERY much!
Steve
Thank you Steve. I rest assured knowing that my former 1877 IHC beauty is in its proper home. It belongs in the amazing collection that you have meticulously put together. Your accomplishment is incredible and was undertaken with care and patience with a focus on quality. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family!
I took a few photos of proof Indians a few years ago for @TONEDDOLLARS
Since he has since sold his set I’m not sure who has these now. If it’s OK, I’ll post a few of them to the thread.
Doug - I’m so honored that you reached out to meet with me. You’re a Superstar! Your absolutely phenomenal IHC and FE sets are at the very pinnacle of what’s almost impossible to accomplish! You and Stewart (and with Indians, Jasper Mantooth) are in a league of your own! I’m so saddened by Stewart’s recent passing.
A PM has been sent. I’m looking forward to meeting with you.
As to the coins in your sets, each time I look at the photos, I end up having to buy a new keyboard, as my drool ruins it!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
@winesteven Is there something in particular that causes weakness in the tips of the top 3 feathers on these? I noticed your 1877 although not as badly as my 1893.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
The top 1/3 of each of the first three feather tips from the left is one of the better general indicators of strike quality. As a generalization, Rick Snow will not apply his Eagle Eye Photo Seal to an uncirculated coin if it does not show decent detail at those higher areas of those three feathers.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Actually, I see quite a large difference in the top 1/3 of the three feathers from the left between my 1877 and your 1893 (which is indeed a lovely coin).
Rick uses a five point scale (five being the best, and my understanding is 3 being the minimum to meet his standard). He gave mine a 4 for strike. Yes, my 1877 has a Photo Seal. Rick's PDS grade for that coin is 13 (4,5,4). The first number refers to post mint Planchet marks for the grade, also taking into account where they are located. The second number refers to the Die state - the newer the dies when the coin was struck, the better. The final number refers to the Strike.
While CAC and Rick each take the same wide variety of factors into account in determining if a coin merits their sticker, they each place different weights from each other on the various factors. That's why I say that while it is indeed somewhat redundant, it's really having the best of both worlds if a coin merits both stickers.
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Here's a blowup of my 1877. You'll notice the strike marks, even though it's not 100%. On your 1893, from the photo, it looks like most of the top 1/3 of each of the first three feathers from the left is much closer to flat, with fewer marks from the die striking the planchet. Maybe in hand it's different?
.
.
I don't know how to blow up that area of your 1893:
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
These were purchased raw before TPG was even around. And what really got me interested in the Indian Head cent series I now collect in higher certified grades.
@asheland said: @winesteven you have a lot of experience with these, just curious, do you think this would Eagle Eye sticker at 63?
No doubt the strike is excellent, so that’s not an issue.
While there are a few very TINY carbon spots on the reverse, those are absolutely not a problem on this coin. As I’ve noted elsewhere, my sense is Rick is more sensitive to carbon spots/flecks than JA. I’ve seen quite a few 65 and 66 Indians with CAC stickers that won’t get a Photo Seal due to carbon. That’s not the case with this coin.
I’m not a strong grader. As a 63, MY sense is all is good for the grade, BUT what “keeps it as a 63” is that scratch on the jaw and the other one on the cheek. Those are not good places to have those planchet “distractions”. IF it doesn’t Photo Seal, I believe the reason is due to where those distractions occur. I don’t have the knowledge to answer this for you.
I cheated, so I see the color suffix is BN, as I guessed. That won’t work against you at all. All is good!
My weakest area of knowledge is determining Die State. My sense is all is good, but as noted, I’m weak here.
Overall, my sense is it’ll Photo Seal. If by chance it doesn’t, as noted it would only be due to the planchet mark locations. I suggest shipping this and other nice Indians (and Flying Eagle cents) to Rick. He charges only $15 each for each coin that succeeds, with no charge for those coins that fail. For each coin that passes, not only do you get the Eagle Eye Photo Seal sticker, but you also get a plasticized card on one side showing a slab photo with the sticker, and Rick’s signed certification on the reverse. He also posts three high quality photos for each coin that passes on his Photo Seal website, searchable by cert number. One is a slab shot, one is a large closeup of the obverse, and the third is a large closeup of the reverse. These are easily downloadable for your use. Quite a value for just $15! Naturally, round trip shipping is covered by you. Take a look at my 1877 MS65RB shown on the prior page of this thread, and also shown higher up on this page in a comment by @Tomthemailcarrier. You’ll see the three high quality photos provided by Rick for each coin with a Photo Seal.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Do you mean as if I were to sell it? If so, I've never thought about it. It's been in my collection 30 +/- years. I've just had it slabbed in the past year.
@asheland said: @winesteven you have a lot of experience with these, just curious, do you think this would Eagle Eye sticker at 63?
No doubt the strike is excellent, so that’s not an issue.
While there are a few very TINY carbon spots on the reverse, those are absolutely not a problem on this coin. As I’ve noted elsewhere, my sense is Rick is more sensitive to carbon spots/flecks than JA. I’ve seen quite a few 65 and 66 Indians with CAC stickers that won’t get a Photo Seal due to carbon. That’s not the case with this coin.
I’m not a strong grader. As a 63, MY sense is all is good for the grade, BUT what “keeps it as a 63” is that scratch on the jaw and the other one on the cheek. Those are not good places to have those planchet “distractions”. IF it doesn’t Photo Seal, I believe the reason is due to where those distractions occur. I don’t have the knowledge to answer this for you.
I cheated, so I see the color suffix is BN, as I guessed. That won’t work against you at all. All is good!
My weakest area of knowledge is determining Die State. My sense is all is good, but as noted, I’m weak here.
Overall, my sense is it’ll Photo Seal. If by chance it doesn’t, as noted it would only be due to the planchet mark locations. I suggest shipping this and other nice Indians to Rick. He charges only $15 each for each coin that succeeds, with no charge for those coins that fail. For each coin that passes, not only do you get the Eagle Eye Photo Seal sticker, but you also get a plasticized card showing a slab photo with the sticker on one side, and Rick’s signed certification on the reverse. He also posts three high quality photos for each coin that passes on his Photo Seal website, searchable by cert number. One is a slab shot, one is a large closeup of the obverse, and the third is a large closeup of the reverse. These are easily downloadable for your use. Quite a value for just $15! Naturally, round trip shipping is covered by you. Take a look at my 1877 MS65RB shown on the prior page of this thread, and also shown higher up on this page in a comment by @Tomthemailcarrier. You’ll see the three high quality photos provided by Rick with each coin with a Photo Seal.
Steve
Thank you for the information!
I do want to send to Rick Snow at some point, CAC, too.
Comments
1864 Bronze with L on Ribbon. Although you can't see the full "L" for Longacre, the pointed breast point gives it away as the "with L" variety.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
There have been quite a few posts with serious eye candy, wow!
Finally after a few more recent posts I decided to throw this one up:
I am assembling an Indian Cent Grading Set in soapbox ANACS holders, going no lower than G04. I'm trying to include key dates, rare varieties, off-center examples, and overdates. I have nine so far, with a recent eBay pickup, 1894/94 in VF20. The 1869/69 is F12. The only proof coin, a PF61BN is housed in a Gen. 1 ANA holder. The goal is a Box of Twenty with a nice MS66RD as the cherry. I started this little project, pre-pandemic.
Matt Snebold
MS65RB. This is my only PCGS-certified Indian Cent.
Matt Snebold
I loved Indian Cents when I was high school. I finally finished the set. I lost my shirt on it when I sold them in the early 1970s. Today, in my old age, I would have enjoyed having that set. I could have formed one when I bought a near complete set when I was dealer, but I sold them.
Today I cherry pick the pieces I want. I have a Civil War era set, and I have nice examples of the 1908-S and 1909-S.
And an 1864-L
That concludes my holdings in key date Indian Cents.
1880 S1 DDO and Off-center clashed reverse.
Here are 3 of my favorites which I unfortunately sold. My bad.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Can I say the same about mine? It sure looks like the U and N of UNITED is doubled similar to yours @asheland? Would you say this is a Snow-1 DDO?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday!
1879
1887
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Sure enough
Unfortunately, I don’t believe it is. You can mainly see it in the TY of Liberty, plus partial digits on the denticles under the date.
My YouTube Channel
I hope I’m not breaking any rules posting this:
@sedulous
There are a few things to look for:
My YouTube Channel
This is the only Indian cent in my primary ("serious") collection.
(I do also have a sideline collection of holed ones, plus all the ones in my detector finds album.)
1862
1859
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
A couple favorites I own.
WOW, very nice!
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
1887 ddo
Cool! Thanks for sharing!
Probably just a plain non-variety version:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I really like that one!
My YouTube Channel
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I took a few photos of proof Indians a few years ago for @TONEDDOLLARS
Since he has since sold his set I’m not sure who has these now. If it’s OK, I’ll post a few of them to the thread.
Same coin
Same coin
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
1889
1895
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I could use a few blazing red ones here.
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
You store your soap bar slabs the same way I do. Very nice!! 👍🏻
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
@winesteven I will be at the show and would love to meet you and review you exhibit with you. Please message me with contact information.
I have a lot of favorites in this set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-cents/indian-cents-major-sets/indian-cents-major-varieties-circulation-strikes-1859-1909/alltimeset/36161
The 1877 is one of my favorites
Doug - I’m so honored that you reached out to meet with me. You’re a Superstar! Your absolutely phenomenal IHC and FE sets are at the very pinnacle of what’s almost impossible to accomplish! You and Stewart (and with Indians, Jasper Mantooth) are in a league of your own! I’m so saddened by Stewart’s recent passing.
A PM has been sent. I’m looking forward to meeting with you.
As to the coins in your sets, each time I look at the photos, I end up having to buy a new keyboard, as my drool ruins it!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Is anyone interested in civil war years battlefield dug pieces?
This one looks like it has been in the earth a while:
1860
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@winesteven Is there something in particular that causes weakness in the tips of the top 3 feathers on these? I noticed your 1877 although not as badly as my 1893.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
The top 1/3 of each of the first three feather tips from the left is one of the better general indicators of strike quality. As a generalization, Rick Snow will not apply his Eagle Eye Photo Seal to an uncirculated coin if it does not show decent detail at those higher areas of those three feathers.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
@winesteven Your 1877 and my 1893 appear to have been well struck except for those feather tips. Does your 77 have Eagle eye?
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
Actually, I see quite a large difference in the top 1/3 of the three feathers from the left between my 1877 and your 1893 (which is indeed a lovely coin).
Rick uses a five point scale (five being the best, and my understanding is 3 being the minimum to meet his standard). He gave mine a 4 for strike. Yes, my 1877 has a Photo Seal. Rick's PDS grade for that coin is 13 (4,5,4). The first number refers to post mint Planchet marks for the grade, also taking into account where they are located. The second number refers to the Die state - the newer the dies when the coin was struck, the better. The final number refers to the Strike.
While CAC and Rick each take the same wide variety of factors into account in determining if a coin merits their sticker, they each place different weights from each other on the various factors. That's why I say that while it is indeed somewhat redundant, it's really having the best of both worlds if a coin merits both stickers.
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Here's a blowup of my 1877. You'll notice the strike marks, even though it's not 100%. On your 1893, from the photo, it looks like most of the top 1/3 of each of the first three feathers from the left is much closer to flat, with fewer marks from the die striking the planchet. Maybe in hand it's different?
.
.
I don't know how to blow up that area of your 1893:
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
@winesteven Your 77 is definitely better struck than mine and higher grade and much nicer looking.
Thanks for the info about the feather tips. This is my only nice IHC. Not bad for $30. Bought it last year.
Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM
I think your coin is great. As you can imagine, I paid a little more than $30 for mine, lol.
While mine has an RB suffix, in Rick's opinion it's 90% Red.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
These were purchased raw before TPG was even around. And what really got me interested in the Indian Head cent series I now collect in higher certified grades.
@winesteven you have a lot of experience with these, just curious, do you think this would Eagle Eye sticker at 63?
My YouTube Channel
@MWallace How do you determine value?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Overall, my sense is it’ll Photo Seal. If by chance it doesn’t, as noted it would only be due to the planchet mark locations. I suggest shipping this and other nice Indians (and Flying Eagle cents) to Rick. He charges only $15 each for each coin that succeeds, with no charge for those coins that fail. For each coin that passes, not only do you get the Eagle Eye Photo Seal sticker, but you also get a plasticized card on one side showing a slab photo with the sticker, and Rick’s signed certification on the reverse. He also posts three high quality photos for each coin that passes on his Photo Seal website, searchable by cert number. One is a slab shot, one is a large closeup of the obverse, and the third is a large closeup of the reverse. These are easily downloadable for your use. Quite a value for just $15! Naturally, round trip shipping is covered by you. Take a look at my 1877 MS65RB shown on the prior page of this thread, and also shown higher up on this page in a comment by @Tomthemailcarrier. You’ll see the three high quality photos provided by Rick for each coin with a Photo Seal.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
Do you mean as if I were to sell it? If so, I've never thought about it. It's been in my collection 30 +/- years. I've just had it slabbed in the past year.
Thank you for the information!
I do want to send to Rick Snow at some point, CAC, too.
👍
My YouTube Channel