POLL: What kind of PCGS/NGC graded coins will you cross to CAC 1.0 when they open for business?

Coin Finder

POLL: What kind of PCGS/NGC graded coins you own will you cross to CAC 1.0 when they open for business? Anonymous

BustDMs

Not crossing but will send in some submissions to see how they are handled.

Catbert

Is there a limit to what “in your face” topics should be discussed on our host’s forum?

I know. I’m an old ninny. Carry on.

DisneyFan

Plus or Star graded PCGS/NGC & CAC

Cougar1978

None. Pretty much well sold out of USA Classic at this time. At least ones that would justify cross over expense. Shifted to graded mods, bullion, world, and currency awhile back. But if deal is right no prob acquiring / retooling US Classic.

Might buy some CACG to evaluate, etc. see how they really compare PCGS / NGC. IF can buy right. Otherwise not waste money on that. Can buy nice slabbed world, mods, bullion, graded currency for what cost 2 people go out to dinner. Stack nicely in my cases at shows / can get good margin. I would think CACG MV wb same as CAC in CDN. However I haven’t seen this confirmed. It wb interesting see how many CACG on eBay by 06/30/23. Will they surpass ICG?

oldabeintx

None of the above, including "none". However, if stickered NGC coins don't begin to reflect the fact that they will cross at the same numeric grade, AND CACG is successful, then it will make sense to cross them. I will try for a plus with better stickered coins with a requested minimum, of a plus, again depending on how the market treats CACG. The poll is impossible to answer with any degree of certainty at this stage and the choices are too limited.

coinbuf

Zero, I will not be sending in any of my currently stickered coins for crossover. I do have five raw coins picked out and ready to send once they are open. But for myself this more about getting a new first gen holder than anything else, I may consider crossing some coins in the future when I'm ready to sell my collection if the market shows a strong preference for CACG at that time.

1madman

My vote would be any & all the dreck currently in pcgs & ngc holders. Makes it all more salable, even if it drops a grade. Think about it, worst coins in potentially best plastic.

Cougar1978

Why would stickered Coins (PCGS /NGC) not cross to CACG? Unless the coin went bad in holder since stickering…

coinkat

What seems lost in all of this is the coin. Some coins have the look others do not. Holders are less important as they are merely temporary. The quality of the coin does not change... opinions do change

PeakRarities

@Cougar1978 said:
Why would stickered Coins (PCGS /NGC) not cross to CACG? Unless the coin went bad in holder since stickering…

Are you referring to @oldabeintx comment about NGC stickered coin values reflecting that they would cross? Otherwise, I don’t see any comments made about stickered coins not crossing.

Catbert

@DeplorableDan said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Why would stickered Coins (PCGS /NGC) not cross to CACG? Unless the coin went bad in holder since stickering…

Are you referring to @oldabeintx comment about NGC stickered coin values reflecting that they would cross? Otherwise, I don’t see any comments made about stickered coins not crossing.

He’s stuck on a coins “going bad in holder” theme.

VanHalen

A couple of key categories are missing. This poll would likely result in near 0% for anybody.

gumby1234

Why would I spend money for a crossover when my coins are just fine in their current holders? Maybe try some raw coins or purchase some already in CAC slabs thou.

ricko

None.... However, this will sure be interesting to watch. Fun times ahead... Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf

What an odd poll. Clearly not designed to gather opinions but to push an agenda.

oldabeintx

Not sure I've made my point clear regarding crossing NGC coins. I've read that stickered NGC coins sell for less than stickered PCGS coins. I imagine this has something to do with registries, otherwise it wouldn't make any sense (not sure it makes sense in any event). With the cross guarantee, NGC and PCGS stickered coins may, absent the PCGS registry thing, achieve parity in the market. If this doesn't occur I may submit my more expensive stickered coins in to CACG. Again, this also assumes that CACG is successful in terms of added value. I'm agnostic when it comes to holders, but not when it comes to potential liquidation.

PeakRarities

@jmlanzaf said:
What an odd poll. Clearly not designed to gather opinions but to push an agenda.

I too, question OP's original intention by creating a poll with these options. JA said himself that it would likely not be in anyone's best interest to cross stickered old holders, or any gold stickered coins, as the collectible value of either may outweigh the benefits of a CAC slab. As far as + graded coins with a CAC sticker, those could make sense to cross at the same grade only. You would then know if CAC considers it an A or B coin, which was previously unclear as CAC ignores plusses for the stickering service.

fiftysevener

Still unclear if my NGC/PCGS CAC coins will cross to CACG holders. Do they guarantee to cross ?

jmlanzaf

@DeplorableDan said:

@jmlanzaf said:
What an odd poll. Clearly not designed to gather opinions but to push an agenda.

I too, question OP's original intention by creating a poll with these options. JA said himself that it would likely not be in anyone's best interest to cross stickered old holders, or any gold stickered coins, as the collectible value of either may outweigh the benefits of a CAC slab. As far as + graded coins with a CAC sticker, those could make sense to cross at the same grade only. You would then know if CAC considers it an A or B coin, which was previously unclear as CAC ignores plusses for the stickering service.

Agree. All of the poll options are special cases that you would be less likely to submit until or unless CACG proves itself to be superior in the marketplace.

coinbuf

@fiftysevener said:
Still unclear if my NGC/PCGS CAC coins will cross to CACG holders. Do they guarantee to cross ?

Yes and no, they will cross at grade (plus not a guarantee) unless the coin has changed in the holder. This applies to copper color designations also, if in CACG's opinion the color has changed there is no automatic cross.

oldabeintx

@coinbuf said:

@fiftysevener said:
Still unclear if my NGC/PCGS CAC coins will cross to CACG holders. Do they guarantee to cross ?

Yes and no, they will cross at grade (plus not a guarantee) unless the coin has changed in the holder. This applies to copper color designations also, if in CACG's opinion the color has changed there is no automatic cross.

But remember one can stipulate a minimum grade, as other TPG's do. If a coin, most likely copper, is doubtful, save the fees.

oldabeintx

PS, the "plus" and "star" designations might be lost as well. One can stipulate a "plus" minimum as well.

Namvet69

But I'll certainly enjoy the opinions of the playahs!

asheland

No crossing, but wouldn't mind buying some in their new holders when I see them, assuming I like the coin and all...

yspsales

Probably zero.

Funny thing happened at the ANA grading seminar.

I always worked with PCGS coins and it was conducted with NGC coins.

Felt there was a gap of about a point on certain series between the two TPG's

Have no interest in learning another system.

Walkerfan

Ready for a mind blow? I’m still involved in the registry ATS and, so far, there has been no indication that these new CAC slabs will even be allowed to participate in that game. If this is true; I will probably avoid the new CAC slab, altogether, and stick to PCGS and NGC with or without the CAC sticker, unless the coin in the new CAC slab is spectacular. No way will I cross anything under any circumstances….

Kove

I won't cross any.

But I will continue to buy PCGS/CAC stickered as long as I can.

I still find value in the "second opinion" concept of PCGS + CAC. I find less value in the single opinion of just CAC grading.

Jzyskowski1

Absolutely none.
I will add one to my collection for different types of holders but can wait until eBay starts handling them. Just one and one only
I do hope that perhaps more anacs slabs become available. I really enjoy buying them as the grading quality is generally good as the other guys. 😁

Cougar1978

Absolutely none. Would rather spend that on dining, entertainment.

I have never seen such a mess about the holder game lol. With how the poll is going looks people don’t give a hoot for it anyhow.

Just list them on an excel spreadsheet and that way you can organize how you want. I do use the registry as an inventory manager for my Pcgs material which works just fine for me.

PeakRarities

@Cougar1978 said:
Absolutely none. Would rather spend that on dining, entertainment.

I have never seen such a mess about the holder game lol. With how the poll is going looks people don’t give a hoot for it anyhow.

Just list them on an excel spreadsheet and that way you can organize how you want. I do use the registry as an inventory manager for my Pcgs material which works just fine for me.

I’m not challenging your viewpoint in any way, but please don’t place much value on the results of this poll. The options are limited to the coins that are least likely to get crossed. Make another poll asking if anyone plans to cross modern NGC holdered coins with stickers, and the results would be vastly different.

jmlanzaf

@DeplorableDan said:

@Cougar1978 said:
Absolutely none. Would rather spend that on dining, entertainment.

I have never seen such a mess about the holder game lol. With how the poll is going looks people don’t give a hoot for it anyhow.

Just list them on an excel spreadsheet and that way you can organize how you want. I do use the registry as an inventory manager for my Pcgs material which works just fine for me.

I’m not challenging your viewpoint in any way, but please don’t place much value on the results of this poll. The options are limited to the coins that are least likely to get crossed. Make another poll asking if anyone plans to cross modern NGC holdered coins with stickers, and the results would be vastly different.

Agree. Or even just ask whether anyone will use CACG as a grading service and I imagine you would find that most people will consider them. 3 of the 4 options in this poll (rattlers and gold CAC) carry such a high premium, you would be a fool to even ask PCGS to reconsider them for an upgrade. The 4th one (plus or star) will really depend on whether you can specify a cross with the equivalent. I'm happy to see that almost everyone chose none of the above.

jesbroken

I have never lost money on PCGS, so I will stay with them. Not saying I have had hundreds of PCGS graded coins, but what I have I have always made a profit on when selling. If I had a $20k coin, that might change if the increased value pans out long term, but then I will never have a $20k coin. lol
Jim

golden

None.

robec

I may send a few non Registry coins in.

winesteven

I didn’t answer the poll because the two main choices for sending in coins to cross (in my opinion) are not even offered in this poll!

1. In my opinion, I think a ton of CAC stickered NGC coins will be submitted to CACG to cross. Right or wrong, NGC CAC stickered coins tend to have lower market value than similar PCGS CAC stickered coins. Getting these in a CACG holder guaranteed to cross at that same grade or better (but color suffixes are not guaranteed) should increase the market value of those coins. On the submission form if your coin has a color suffix, just indicate to cross at the same full grade or better (or however they phrase it to ensure it crosses with that same color suffix).
2. Since they guarantee CAC stickered coins will guarantee to cross at the same grade or better, I think for collectors not tied to the PCGS Registry, a ton of CAC stickered coins in whole grade numbers (without a plus), both NGC and PCGS will be submitted to cross, but instructed to only cross with a plus grade added (or better). We’ve been told that CAC stickered coins that are “A” coins will then cross at that same grade number, but have a “+” added to that grade! Other than not having that coin partake in the PCGS Registry, why not submit whole grade CAC coins to cross, but only with a plus grade or better? Many times getting a plus added to a grade increases the market value so much more than the fee to cross! It’s quite possible the extra value obtained of those that cross with a plus will make up for the crossing fees of those that don’t cross (since in CACG’s opinion it was a “B” coin).

Steve

jonruns

A P/C 58+ gold coin that DW thinks is a UNC. And worth significantly more as a 61 or 62.

winesteven

@jonruns said:
A P/C 58+ gold coin that DW thinks is a UNC. And worth significantly more as a 61 or 62.

From my understanding, JA and CAC are super tough with friction. While I have a lot of respect for DW, I’d be surprised if many of the gold coins graded 58+ that DW thinks should be 61 or 62 will be agreed with by CACG.

Steve

BillJones

One might conclude from this poll that the new CAC holder might have a harder time gaining traction in the certification market than was first perceived. I prefer to spend more money on additional coins, tokens and medals in my collection than on certification fees.

PerryHall

Will NGC and PCGS allow CAC slabs in their registries? I doubt it.
Will CAC establish their own registry? Possibly.

BillJones

@PerryHall said:
Will NGC and PCGS allow CAC slabs in their registries? I doubt it.
Will CAC establish their own registry? Possibly.

NGC might let the CAC into their registry for U.S. coins, but PCGS will never do that.

winesteven

@PerryHall said:
Will NGC and PCGS allow CAC slabs in their registries? I doubt it.
Will CAC establish their own registry? Possibly.

Here are some thoughts, plus answers (in point #3):

1. Since NGC allows PCGS slabs in their Registry, I believe chances are high they’ll also allow CACG slabs too.
2. I agree that PCGS in all likelihood will NOT allow CACG slabs in their Registry. As such, since the PCGS Registry is important to me, that’s why I won’t cross my PCGS Registry coins to CACG.
3. CACG will absolutely have their own Registries. Notice this is “Plural”. Each of their two separate Registries WILL indeed accept coins graded by PCGS and NGC (as well as their own holders). One of the two Registries will be for coins with OR without CAC stickers. The other registry will be limited to PCGS and NGC coins WITH CAC stickers and/or coins in the new CACG holders. Each of the two registries WILL recognize (and reward) “+” grades. Additionally, the Registry formula will take into account not only the grade, but also how tough that date is. So in Type Sets, coins in key dates and other tough dates will be rewarded compared to common dates in the same grades.

Steve

MFeld

@BillJones said:
One might conclude from this poll that the new CAC holder might have a harder time gaining traction in the certification market than was first perceived. I prefer to spend more money on additional coins, tokens and medals in my collection than on certification fees.

Based on the way the poll was set up, it's not surprising to see that someone might come to that conclusion regarding traction for CAC holders.

jmlanzaf

@winesteven said:

@jonruns said:
A P/C 58+ gold coin that DW thinks is a UNC. And worth significantly more as a 61 or 62.

From my understanding, JA and CAC are super tough with friction. While I have a lot of respect for DW, I’d be surprised if many of the gold coins graded 58+ that DW thinks should be 61 or 62 will be agreed with by CACG.

Steve

I'd also love to know what the coin is. While it may be a pop 1, I would think that at auction a 58+ CAC would sell for more than a 61/62 for most coins. 58+ CAC in gold is really special in the current market.

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@BillJones said:
One might conclude from this poll that the new CAC holder might have a harder time gaining traction in the certification market than was first perceived. I prefer to spend more money on additional coins, tokens and medals in my collection than on certification fees.

Based on the way the poll was set up, it's not surprising to see that someone might come to that conclusion regarding traction for CAC holders.

Which might have been the (silent) OP's point in creating the poll.

DollarAfterDollar

I like eye appealing coins, can't afford rare ones. CAC will be getting a submission from me when the flood gates open.

jonruns

From my understanding, JA and CAC are super tough with friction. While I have a lot of respect for DW, I’d be surprised if many of the gold coins graded 58+ that DW thinks should be 61 or 62 will be agreed with by CACG.

Steve

I'd also love to know what the coin is. While it may be a pop 1, I would think that at auction a 58+ CAC would sell for more than a 61/62 for most coins. 58+ CAC in gold is really special in the current market.

The OP's question was what kind of coins will you try to cross to CAC 1.0 and personally I will try to cross a P/C 58+ rare gold coin that I own. I'm not cracking it out, so if it doesn't cross no problem.

Cougar1978

Frankly have none (Classic Coins - sold out or not material enough justify hassle / cost). So would just buy the CACG coins when they come out if even going in that direction.

jmlanzaf

@jonruns said:

From my understanding, JA and CAC are super tough with friction. While I have a lot of respect for DW, I’d be surprised if many of the gold coins graded 58+ that DW thinks should be 61 or 62 will be agreed with by CACG.

Steve

I'd also love to know what the coin is. While it may be a pop 1, I would think that at auction a 58+ CAC would sell for more than a 61/62 for most coins. 58+ CAC in gold is really special in the current market.

The OP's question was what kind of coins will you try to cross to CAC 1.0 and personally I will try to cross a P/C 58+ rare gold coin that I own. I'm not cracking it out, so if it doesn't cross no problem.

I understand that. What I'm saying is that a successful cross might LOSE you money. Depending on the specific coin, of course.