@craig44 said:
I can agree with you here. Todays players are not better. they may be a little stronger/faster, but that is simply because of better training/nutrition.
They're A LOT stronger. Again, on average. They're A LOT faster. On average.
Of course it's because of better training and nutrition. That's what makes them....... better.
The average player is 20lbs heavier than the average player of the late 60s while being negligibly taller. And it ain't fat in those 20lbs. That's a good amount of strength that's been added. While increasing the size of the league five-fold.
The worst player in the NHL in 1967, even given modern training, wouldn't make a roster today. Because the NHL pulls from a worldwide talent pool and greatly improved US talent pool.
@craig44 said:
If players from the 20's, 40's, 60's etc. were born now, they would be just as strong/fast as current players. Todays athletes train year-round.
Exactly. Today's players are better because of exactly the stuff you're talking about.
@craig44 said:
It is pretty common knowledge that Lebraon James spends over 1MM a year on his nutrition/fitness. that was not the case back in the 60's when Orr played.
Correct. That's, again, what makes modern players better.
I think that a generational talent like Orr (or Gretzky, Lemieux etc) would be just as generational today if given the same equipment/training. I have no reason to believe Orr wouldnt be the fastest player on the Ice today.
Maybe, maybe not. But the fastest guy today (most likely McDavid though Larkin holds the speed record and Athanasiou might be faster than either one) is faster than Orr was. Is it equipment, training or whatever? Doesn't matter. The result is that they're faster.
I think some people look at it almost through an evolutionary lens. well, even if you believe in evolution, 50 or 100 years is not nearly enough time to change the human physique to make players today different from their predecessors from 50 years ago
In 1967, the world record in the 100m dash was 10.0 seconds. In 2020, to even qualify for the Olympics, a time of 10.05 was required. Dozens of men met that standard.
Athletes get better. They just do. And, yeah, a lot of it is training and nutrition. Doesn't matter. The end result is still better.
Training and nutrition
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sincerely,
Lance Armstrong (doping)
The NFL
MLB
The NHL
Track and Field
Wrestling
MMA
and on
and on
and on
and on
Puck battles aren’t necessary when no one can catch you. Speed and agility trump size and strength
If there had ever been a player in NHL history who no one ever caught in any circumstance, you'd be correct. Since that's never happened, we end up with puck battles.
We'll just ignore that you completely skipped over the part where I mentioned fighting through checks.
And, yes, even the Greatest God of All-Time Hisself, Bobby Orr, had to occasionally deal with people at close range even while flying around the rink at 473 mph.
Kudos on refuting a point I didn't make though. What I said was size and strength matter not that they trump anything else.
Your top O and D men in the league now are small. McDavid and Fox.
McDavid is 6'1". He's not small.
Fox is on the smaller size at 5'11" & 182 but nobody considers him the best D-man in the league, so...
Best D-man in the league is either Makar or Hedman. Makar is 5'11, 187. Hedman is 6'6" and 241. Which one do you think he has won multiple Norris trophies?
Bossy didn’t take peds or he would have lasted longer.
As a young rookie Lanny McDonalds teammates laughed at him on the bench watching Bobby toy with him when he had the puck behind his net. Lanny chased him. Orr skated in his own defensive end until Lanny gave up, as he watched his own mates laughing at him from the bench.
Orr killed 2 minute penalties by holding the puck.
Ever see 99,66, or anyone else do that ?.
Oh yeah, in 1989 Lanny was a +2 in the Cup final win against Montreal with your new and improved players. He was over 35.
But Orr made him look like a pee wee player many years earlier.
You never saw Orr dominate.
You never saw him.
Clarke was right. He needed a better league to play in.
@craig44 said:
I can agree with you here. Todays players are not better. they may be a little stronger/faster, but that is simply because of better training/nutrition.
They're A LOT stronger. Again, on average. They're A LOT faster. On average.
Of course it's because of better training and nutrition. That's what makes them....... better.
The average player is 20lbs heavier than the average player of the late 60s while being negligibly taller. And it ain't fat in those 20lbs. That's a good amount of strength that's been added. While increasing the size of the league five-fold.
The worst player in the NHL in 1967, even given modern training, wouldn't make a roster today. Because the NHL pulls from a worldwide talent pool and greatly improved US talent pool.
@craig44 said:
If players from the 20's, 40's, 60's etc. were born now, they would be just as strong/fast as current players. Todays athletes train year-round.
Exactly. Today's players are better because of exactly the stuff you're talking about.
@craig44 said:
It is pretty common knowledge that Lebraon James spends over 1MM a year on his nutrition/fitness. that was not the case back in the 60's when Orr played.
Correct. That's, again, what makes modern players better.
I think that a generational talent like Orr (or Gretzky, Lemieux etc) would be just as generational today if given the same equipment/training. I have no reason to believe Orr wouldnt be the fastest player on the Ice today.
Maybe, maybe not. But the fastest guy today (most likely McDavid though Larkin holds the speed record and Athanasiou might be faster than either one) is faster than Orr was. Is it equipment, training or whatever? Doesn't matter. The result is that they're faster.
I think some people look at it almost through an evolutionary lens. well, even if you believe in evolution, 50 or 100 years is not nearly enough time to change the human physique to make players today different from their predecessors from 50 years ago
In 1967, the world record in the 100m dash was 10.0 seconds. In 2020, to even qualify for the Olympics, a time of 10.05 was required. Dozens of men met that standard.
Athletes get better. They just do. And, yeah, a lot of it is training and nutrition. Doesn't matter. The end result is still better.
I agree that athletes are bigger, stronger and faster. It is 100% training/nutrition. they are not making Human Beings differently now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. they are just training them differently and feeding them better.
The photos show Hull and Howe, as huge, muscular men. Imagine what they would be today with proper/modern training and nutrition.
If Connor was born in 1940 and was playing in the 1960s, he would still be lightning fast, but he certainly would have fallen to lightning fast for the 1960s. He would not be the Connor of 2022.
I agree that athletes are bigger, stronger and faster. It is 100% training/nutrition. they are not making Human Beings differently now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. they are just training them differently and feeding them better.
Humans, as a group, are getting bigger. To quote CNN:
"A century ago, American men ranked as the third tallest in the world, standing at 171 centimeters (5 feet 7 inches). Now, they place as the 37th, with an average of 177 centimeters (5 feet 10 inches)."
Whether it's nutrition or evolution or whatever, they are bigger, strong, and faster. Period.
I agree that athletes are bigger, stronger and faster. It is 100% training/nutrition. they are not making Human Beings differently now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. they are just training them differently and feeding them better.
Humans, as a group, are getting bigger. To quote CNN:
"A century ago, American men ranked as the third tallest in the world, standing at 171 centimeters (5 feet 7 inches). Now, they place as the 37th, with an average of 177 centimeters (5 feet 10 inches)."
Whether it's nutrition or evolution or whatever, they are bigger, strong, and faster. Period.
I do know that IF one believes in evolution, 100 years is absolutely nothing. way way too short of a time for any evolutionary change to occur. the difference in size/strength comes down to improved nutrition/health care/training methods and equipment.
“He’s the best player in the world for a reason,” said Seattle’s Adam Larsson, a former teammate with McDavid in Edmonton. “He’s hard to stop. We can do a lot better job stopping him, but when you give him time and space, he’s going to make you look stupid most of the time.”
@Goldenage : Here us a Connor McDavid mid-season stat report:
As you can see he is still on route to 70 goals and 160 points this season. Many have won the Hart Trophy for much much less. No he is not that good LOL.
@Goldenage: Here is a link to the all time list of single season scoring in the NHL. As you can see the last time someone scored ≥ 130 points in a single season was before the year 2000. The NHL style has changed, hence scoring more than 120 points now is phenomenal. Kucherov had 128 in 2018-2019; McDavid had 123 last year. In the last 15 years that is it above 120. Kucherov is on schedule for 125 this year (overall behind McD and Draisaitl), McDavid simply decided to score more this year and try to take full control for the Oil. He is THAT GOOD.
@spacehayduke said: @Goldenage: Here is a link to the all time list of single season scoring in the NHL. As you can see the last time someone scored ≥ 130 points in a single season was before the year 2000. The NHL style has changed, hence scoring more than 120 points now is phenomenal. Kucherov had 128 in 2018-2019; McDavid had 123 last year. In the last 15 years that is it above 120. Kucherov is on schedule for 125 this year (overall behind McD and Draisaitl), McDavid simply decided to score more this year and try to take full control for the Oil. He is THAT GOOD.
The NHL has become more defensive minded in the past 20 years relative to the past. The defensive style works to shut down speed that the legendary Oiler teams relied on for example. So it is hard to open up the game and get the wild scoring that occurred during the 70-90s. That is why McDavid is amazing and a superstar - scoring the points he is scoring in these days makes him well above >99% of his peers. You stated in the OP that McDavid is 'not that good' compared to the list above. Yes, yes he is, he is proving it, and the testimony of his peers agree with this - he is the superstar of his era, just like those skaters in your list. As you must be aware of, it is virtually impossible to do a direct statistical comparison between eras and this is where the reasoning is flawed to say that McDavid is not that good. If we compared NFL qb stats of current players to NFL stats of old qb's of a different era where the passing game was not what it is today, well we all agree that comparison is useless because the game changes. Same for NHL as I note here.
I will continue to update the stats as it proceeds with the greatest player his era, McDavid.
Here you go @Goldenage. This is an analytical approach to the stats of the superstars in all NHL eras in the link. It does show what you say, NHL then is NHL now although the defensive approach has evolved over time.
"Based on G/GP and A/GP, cluster 5 represents the best of the best: Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and McDavid."
"Here we see that McDavid truly is on pace to be one of the all time greats."
"We found that McDavid’s numbers mirror those of NHL legends like Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr."
Puck don't lie. McDavid is that good, within the elite group containing Gretz, Orr and Lemieux according to this quantitative analysis, just Gretz is GOAT by a long way.
Most goals ever scored this year then in the past 20 years, but yes, Bossy and Gretzky played against horrible goalie talent. It got better from 1986 on during Mario’s prime.
@Goldenage said:
Most goals ever scored this year then in the past 20 years, but yes, Bossy and Gretzky played against horrible goalie talent. It got better from 1986 on during Mario’s prime.
The game is being officiated differently now + rule changes. Remember how the league was being refd post 04-05 lockout when they cracked down (for all of one season) on clutch & grab hockey. Chara was a -21 post lockout and was barely a top 4 d-man because he couldn't keep up and was getting pyloned on the regular every night. Both he and (puckmoving d-man) Wade Redden were both free agents after the season. The Senators kept Redden instead because they assumed the league was going to remain under the new rules/officiating. That didn't happen and then Lurch went on to grabbing Norris votes with his arm tackling and constant cross-checking that he got away with for two decades.
Starting in 2017-18 they rewrote the rule to regulate the size of goalie pads. Some goalies like Braden Holtby immediately fell off a cliff - 2.07 GAA / .925 SV% to a 2.99 GAA / .907 SV% the next season and continued to drown out eventually becoming a backup and is now out of the league. See also Martin Brodeur's cosplaying of the Michelin Man.
The following year, they cracked down on slashing. This wasn't even called a penalty then
this, like The Trap, and Scotty Bowman/Mike Babcock coaching interference for decades, cannot be underestimated. Slashing was clearly being coached, it was always aimed at cracking guys across the wrists and hands, and it's hard to see it, and the refs and people in charge of refereeing were clearly on the side of well, it's hard to call unless it's blatantly obvious, so whatever.
and starting last season they finally got around to cracking down on cross-checking (which was basically all the Bruins' defensemen have done since the beginning of time....because it's what they had to do because they haven't had anyone other than the Moonfaced d-bag Chucky McAvoy, and formerly Torey Krug, who could skate a puck out of their own end since Bourque.
All of this is to say, there's actually some room out there now. Rush chances are way up and this season the powerplay opps are 7.44 a game. 10 years ago it was 5.54. Last month there were 8.53 PPs called per game. So that's a thing.
@Goldenage said:
Most goals ever scored this year then in the past 20 years, but yes, Bossy and Gretzky played against horrible goalie talent. It got better from 1986 on during Mario’s prime.
>
All of this is to say, there's actually some room out there now. Rush chances are way up and this season the powerplay opps are 7.44 a game. 10 years ago it was 5.54. Last month there were 8.53 PPs called per game. So that's a thing.
There’s also plenty of room in Olympic hockey with the bigger rinks and tougher penalties.
Scores are low amongst games played in the Olympics with NHL players because defenses are good and goalies are good.
Bruins beat the Flyers 6-0 and the Ducks 7-1. Those teams are bad.
1976 Montreal averaged beating teams by 3 goals.
The NHL talent is looking pretty crappy with this Bruins team dominating the way they are.
I read through and enjoy these hockey threads while knowing that for the most part I can't contribute (meaningfully). As always, I am enjoying the contributions of @lanemyer85 .
I do have a problem though. I cannot follow things properly. I don't know which poster feels which way about certain periods of play or styles or...I hope you guys understand. I'm thinking that it could be as simple as all of you (us) 'declare your positions' in a way/place that makes it so everyone can see and reference them. Of course these would be edited as opinions shifted. ...or perhaps a flowchart?
To be honest, I just realized...I need to start taking notes. I've been saying this for years and I've never done it.
@Goldenage said:
Most goals ever scored this year then in the past 20 years, but yes, Bossy and Gretzky played against horrible goalie talent. It got better from 1986 on during Mario’s prime.
>
All of this is to say, there's actually some room out there now. Rush chances are way up and this season the powerplay opps are 7.44 a game. 10 years ago it was 5.54. Last month there were 8.53 PPs called per game. So that's a thing.
There’s also plenty of room in Olympic hockey with the bigger rinks and tougher penalties.
Scores are low amongst games played in the Olympics with NHL players because defenses are good and goalies are good.
Bruins beat the Flyers 6-0 and the Ducks 7-1. Those teams are bad.
1976 Montreal averaged beating teams by 3 goals.
The NHL talent is looking pretty crappy with this Bruins team dominating the way they are.
the only thing that changes in Olympic hockey is more east/west play & cycling. The defense just keeps everyone out past the dots. There's just 4 more feet of room near the sidewalls that ends up being largely useless. Slot chances aren't going to suddenly increase.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
I think the Quebec Remparts could win this league this year.
@Goldenage said:
Most goals ever scored this year then in the past 20 years, but yes, Bossy and Gretzky played against horrible goalie talent. It got better from 1986 on during Mario’s prime.
>
All of this is to say, there's actually some room out there now. Rush chances are way up and this season the powerplay opps are 7.44 a game. 10 years ago it was 5.54. Last month there were 8.53 PPs called per game. So that's a thing.
There’s also plenty of room in Olympic hockey with the bigger rinks and tougher penalties.
Scores are low amongst games played in the Olympics with NHL players because defenses are good and goalies are good.
Bruins beat the Flyers 6-0 and the Ducks 7-1. Those teams are bad.
1976 Montreal averaged beating teams by 3 goals.
The NHL talent is looking pretty crappy with this Bruins team dominating the way they are.
the only thing that changes in Olympic hockey is more east/west play & cycling. The defense just keeps everyone out past the dots. There's just 4 more feet of room near the sidewalls that ends up being largely useless. Slot chances aren't going to suddenly increase.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
If you did your homework you’d know that shots per game haven’t changed the past six year but save percentage is at its lowest this year and goals against average is at its highest in that six year time frame.
Same shots per game means your open ice theory is totally wrong.
More goals against means goalies are worse.
Lower save percentage the same.
You can try to fool others with your ideas, but those who know the truth won’t be fooled.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
C’mon Tabe and Lane Meyer .
No goalie equipment change since 2018.
Shots on goal per game the same since then.
Yet Save percentage at a 6 year low.
GAA at a 6 year high.
Yet you two keep telling me how the NHL talent gets better and better.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
C’mon Tabe and Lane Meyer .
No goalie equipment change since 2018.
Shots on goal per game the same since then.
Yet Save percentage at a 6 year low.
GAA at a 6 year high.
Yet you two keep telling me how the NHL talent gets better and better.
Why are goalies getting worse and not better ?
yeesh....shots on goal mean nothing. You can have 35 shots in a game and if 28 of them are from the perimeter you've either scored 0, or if you're lucky, 1 goal. An average shot has a 8.15% of being a goal. That % triples when a teammate joins the rush...or consequently, if a defensive teammate joins the play on a 1 on 2, that % drops by 50%,
Roughly 70% of goals scored come from the slot area. The slot, obviously, is the most difficult area to generate shots from since it's where the opposing defense collapses and is bundled usually in the umbrella setup - which is also why rush chances are so important because you're generating shots while on the move before the defense can set up.
Florida was 1st in the NHL in generating slot shots last year while largely running away with the east. This year they're 29th. How's that look for them right now? That's what happens when you hire old Canadians to coach your team like it's still 1992...something you'd probably be on board with.
I'll go ahead and do the work for you on the hometown team since you won't. By that I mean the reason why the Bruins are better this year despite largely having the same players as last year save for old man Krejci coming back and the Zacha trade plus the new coach (hint: it's the coach). Here's what the Bruins collective defensemen did last year at evens (5 on 5).
21-22 / 22-23
73.3% (26th in the NHL) dump in rate / 64.1% this year (3rd in the NHL)
4.8% o-zone entries (18th in the NHL) / 5.7% (8th in the NHL)
0.5% rush chances (19th in the NHL) / 0.8% (6th in the NHL)
that's why. Amazing what can happen when you start playing modern hockey in spite of meatheads like Cam Neely in the front office. And they're doing this while not even having a real plus plus skater on the back end. Moonfaced d-bag McAvoy is a good skater for a guy his size, and Grzelcyk can go but they're the only two above average skaters on the blueline. So who would have thought that trying to play hockey like José Mourinho or Antonio Conte were coaching with their respective - here opposition, you take it (the puck, we'll wait for the counter attack instead) would be a boost to one's offense.
@Goldenage said:
Ducks are on pace to outdistance Gretzky’s Mickey Mouse NJ Devils of 1983 in negative goal differential.
Looking at -155 for the Ducks.
NHL is very poor right now.
These Bruins are destroying the league with just a couple of good players.
It’s embarrassing.
what's embarrassing is apparently tanking is an unfamiliar concept for you. Go look at the Blackhawks roster outside of Kane, Toews and Seth Jones. Look at the forwards they signed in the offseason (just to get up to the salary cap's floor) in addition to trading away a 40 goal scorer for a 1st round pick. They're both tanking for Connor Bedard my man...and so is Arizona and Montreal. Now I know you don't know who Bedard is since he doesn't play in the era where Denis Savard is lighting Luckys off of one another during pre-game warmups, but he should be somewhere between a MacKinnon or a smaller Matthews.
@Goldenage said:
Ducks are on pace to outdistance Gretzky’s Mickey Mouse NJ Devils of 1983 in negative goal differential.
Looking at -155 for the Ducks.
NHL is very poor right now.
These Bruins are destroying the league with just a couple of good players.
It’s embarrassing.
what's embarrassing is apparently tanking is an unfamiliar concept for you. Go look at the Blackhawks roster outside of Kane, Toews and Seth Jones. Look at the forwards they signed in the offseason (just to get up to the salary cap's floor) in addition to trading away a 40 goal scorer for a 1st round pick. They're both tanking for Connor Bedard my man...and so is Arizona and Montreal. Now I know you don't know who Bedard is since he doesn't play in the era where Denis Savard is lighting Luckys off of one another during pre-game warmups, but he should be somewhere between a MacKinnon or a smaller Matthews.
Lemieux and Lafluer and Bossy smoked as much as Savard. As did every other French Canadian.
You’re right, the NHL is horrible this year. Ducks and Blackhawks and many others.
Bruins D is only more effective this year because the rest of the league is pathetic.
4-1 at the Island last night. Lol.
NHL is horrible now.
Tell your kids to get off their phones and on the ice. To be more concerned with their skills then how many likes they get on Facebook.
You did say one thing right.
Bedard is the reason why the bottom tier teams are so bad this year. Glad someone understood this.
The NHL is embarrassing this year.
People will say what a great year McDavid is having and not understand why.
@lanemyer85 said
You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
................
Like I said, @lanemyer85 always makes things fun.
You are like the Hemingway of hockey s-talk.
ETA: I mean that as a compliment, in case it's not clear lol
@lanemyer85 said
You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
................
Like I said, @lanemyer85 always makes things fun.
You are like the Hemingway of hockey s-talk.
ETA: I mean that as a compliment, in case it's not clear lol
I’ll agree with that.
The one thing he does bring here is entertainment.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
C’mon Tabe and Lane Meyer .
No goalie equipment change since 2018.
Shots on goal per game the same since then.
Yet Save percentage at a 6 year low.
GAA at a 6 year high.
Yet you two keep telling me how the NHL talent gets better and better.
Why are goalies getting worse and not better ?
yeesh....shots on goal mean nothing.
He’s entertaining because statements like this crack the knowledgeable fan up.
Perhaps he forgot where Patrick Kanes Cup winning goal against the Flyers came from.
Or Moose DuPonts shot for Philly in 1974-75.
Or Buzz Schneider or Eruziones goals in 1980 against Russia.
Was Bill Bakers important goal against Sweden in 1980 a bad idea because he shot from the point ?
I am not being facetious when I write any of this...I love these threads but I can't follow along without getting confused sometimes. @Goldenage Can you write a comment where you summarize a few talking points succinctly for me/us. Also, I read your comment saying the Bruins record pace is due to intentional watering down of rosters to get a chance for Bedard. Are you saying that the Bruins season is an anomaly caused solely by this?
@thisistheshow said:
I am not being facetious when I write any of this...I love these threads but I can't follow along without getting confused sometimes. @Goldenage Can you write a comment where you summarize a few talking points succinctly for me/us. Also, I read your comment saying the Bruins record pace is due to intentional watering down of rosters to get a chance for Bedard. Are you saying that the Bruins season is an anomaly caused solely by this?
Bruins have outshot teams 34-29 per game this year.
"What has been extraordinary is the way he has been scoring them. Simply put: Oilers games -- such as Thursday's tilt against the Tampa Bay Lightning (9 ET, ESPN) -- have become a must-watch for both hardcore hockey fans and casual sports observers because one never knows when McDavid will create magic on the ice."
@thisistheshow said:
I am not being facetious when I write any of this...I love these threads but I can't follow along without getting confused sometimes. @Goldenage Can you write a comment where you summarize a few talking points succinctly for me/us. Also, I read your comment saying the Bruins record pace is due to intentional watering down of rosters to get a chance for Bedard. Are you saying that the Bruins season is an anomaly caused solely by this?
Unless your goal is to be marginally informed about hockey in 1978, I hope you're not actually listening to anything that this guy says. Trying to compare the 70's/80's to today is about as cognizant as trying to compare today's QB's to the NFL when there were 4 forward passes per game. Or today's starting pitchers to Fergie Jenkins. There wasn't a salary cap until 2006, so those Gretzky OIlers and 80's Islanders teams wouldn't exist today. Forwards played little to no defense prior to the mid-90's aside from teams having one checking line. The goalies played differently...it was read and react back then, now it's all about physics/percentages and cutting down angles and positioning. So when you see this guy or anyone else try to compare Gretzky to McJesus, just stop reading. It's all dumb. This modern (deadpuck/overcoached defensive) era is 1994 to present and really, you can probably start drawing a line to a new era for the post-Covid era where scoring has jumped because they finally got around to calling games by the actual rulebook (save for never calling charging) and Bettman's desire to have 2.5 hour games maybe isn't so important in the streaming era.
Then read the post above his nonsense with the actual stats that back things up. The Bruins are better this year because they are actually attempting to play offense as a team instead of what they did under the previous two coaches which was play slog/gum-it-up hockey aside from freeing up the Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak line. FWIW teams roll 4 forward lines and 3 defensemen pairs (then they'll have 2 lines for the powerplay and 2 lines for the penalty kill). So when the playoffs rolled around all a team had to do was shutdown their one scoring line, which most teams did, and when the goalie(s) couldn't steal them a game here and there, they were bounced in the first or second round. You could get away with that style 10-15 years ago, but not today unless you had half of the roster being some of the best defensive forwards and defensemen in the league + a top end goaler. The league is too fast, too skilled, no goons sucking up 8 minutes a night, the slow-moving defensemen aren't five to six to a side like the Bruins were in their previous era etc.
see it's got nothing to do with basic shots on goal, look at the percentages I posted above. Every night teams get outshot and win games. The average shot has a 8.15% chance of being a goal. The further you are away from the goal, the percentage plummets. That's why shots from the slot total 70%+ of scoring. and that number increases when it's a shot off the rush (ie the hockey equivalent of a fastbreak in basketball). So, no, it's not a "watered down NHL", "bad goaltending", or tanking - 3 of the 4 tanking teams are in the Western Conference anyway. They're playing differently, a more attacking style (not constantly sitting back and waiting for the counterattack like most soccer clubs do ) under a new, not of touch head coach. There's a reason coaches like Mike Babcock and Claude Julien are sitting at home pounding Molsons. They're as old and out of touch as a certain frequent poster here.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
C’mon Tabe and Lane Meyer .
No goalie equipment change since 2018.
Shots on goal per game the same since then.
Yet Save percentage at a 6 year low.
GAA at a 6 year high.
Yet you two keep telling me how the NHL talent gets better and better.
Why are goalies getting worse and not better ?
yeesh....shots on goal mean nothing.
He’s entertaining because statements like this crack the knowledgeable fan up.
Perhaps he forgot where Patrick Kanes Cup winning goal against the Flyers came from.
Or Moose DuPonts shot for Philly in 1974-75.
Or Buzz Schneider or Eruziones goals in 1980 against Russia.
Was Bill Bakers important goal against Sweden in 1980 a bad idea because he shot from the point ?
I can go on and on.
“Shots on goal mean nothing “
😂😂😂
He is very entertaining
you mean the goal Kane scored on the Flyers' 3rd string AHL goalie, Michael Leighton? Yeah I remember that goal that every high school goalie had a 91% chance of stopping.
5 games on the slate last night. 3 of the 5 teams outshot the opposition and lost. Vancouver outshot the Lightning 37 to 24 and lost 5-2. Don't recall which game, but this past weekend someone was outshot 50-18 and won. Got any other well-reasoned theories?
Kudos to @lanemyer85 and his detailed analysis which is bang on.
Here is a vid page for the Oil's game last night. Watch the superstar McDavid on a breakaway, goalie has no chance as he chooses where to put the puck. Also watch McDavid set up Hyman for a goal...........
Comments
Training and nutrition
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Sincerely,
Lance Armstrong (doping)
The NFL
MLB
The NHL
Track and Field
Wrestling
MMA
and on
and on
and on
and on
If there had ever been a player in NHL history who no one ever caught in any circumstance, you'd be correct. Since that's never happened, we end up with puck battles.
We'll just ignore that you completely skipped over the part where I mentioned fighting through checks.
And, yes, even the Greatest God of All-Time Hisself, Bobby Orr, had to occasionally deal with people at close range even while flying around the rink at 473 mph.
Kudos on refuting a point I didn't make though. What I said was size and strength matter not that they trump anything else.
McDavid is 6'1". He's not small.
Fox is on the smaller size at 5'11" & 182 but nobody considers him the best D-man in the league, so...
Best D-man in the league is either Makar or Hedman. Makar is 5'11, 187. Hedman is 6'6" and 241. Which one do you think he has won multiple Norris trophies?
What makes you so sure he didn't?
Ah, the PEDs argument.
Do you think training and nutrition are better now than they were in 1970?
As a young rookie Lanny McDonalds teammates laughed at him on the bench watching Bobby toy with him when he had the puck behind his net. Lanny chased him. Orr skated in his own defensive end until Lanny gave up, as he watched his own mates laughing at him from the bench.
Orr killed 2 minute penalties by holding the puck.
Ever see 99,66, or anyone else do that ?.
Oh yeah, in 1989 Lanny was a +2 in the Cup final win against Montreal with your new and improved players. He was over 35.
But Orr made him look like a pee wee player many years earlier.
You never saw Orr dominate.
You never saw him.
Clarke was right. He needed a better league to play in.
The 1995-96 Red Wings were the most undersized team in the league that year.
They are in the Top 10 all time for greatest teams ever. Goal difference in the top 7.
Look at their roster below.
Scotty Bowman had these small twerps skating and playing with tenacity in all three zones.
End of discussion. Speed and agility trumps size all the time.
https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/1996.html
Lot of Scotty’s teams here.
He says Orr is the greatest.
How is it possible that little guys are better ? Malkin is 6’3. Crosby is 5’11 and is better then the big guy. How is that even remotely possible?
Bobby Orr is 6’0 197. Right where McDavid and Crosby are.
Hedman and Lidstrom would look like pee wee players playing with or against him.
I agree that athletes are bigger, stronger and faster. It is 100% training/nutrition. they are not making Human Beings differently now than they were 50 or 100 years ago. they are just training them differently and feeding them better.
The photos show Hull and Howe, as huge, muscular men. Imagine what they would be today with proper/modern training and nutrition.
If Connor was born in 1940 and was playing in the 1960s, he would still be lightning fast, but he certainly would have fallen to lightning fast for the 1960s. He would not be the Connor of 2022.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Humans, as a group, are getting bigger. To quote CNN:
"A century ago, American men ranked as the third tallest in the world, standing at 171 centimeters (5 feet 7 inches). Now, they place as the 37th, with an average of 177 centimeters (5 feet 10 inches)."
Whether it's nutrition or evolution or whatever, they are bigger, strong, and faster. Period.
I do know that IF one believes in evolution, 100 years is absolutely nothing. way way too short of a time for any evolutionary change to occur. the difference in size/strength comes down to improved nutrition/health care/training methods and equipment.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Connor McDavd watch:
“He’s the best player in the world for a reason,” said Seattle’s Adam Larsson, a former teammate with McDavid in Edmonton. “He’s hard to stop. We can do a lot better job stopping him, but when you give him time and space, he’s going to make you look stupid most of the time.”
https://www.espn.com/nhl/recap/_/gameId/401459166
After 37 games:
32 goals
42 assists
72 pts ttl
He is still on pace for a 160 point season, 75 goals. Many players have won the Con Smythe for much less offense in a year.
Nope Goldenage, he is THAT good and his peers recognize it.
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Fine, he's great.
Can he score a goal from the corner, behind the net by by bouncing the puck off the side of the goalies head?
Kaprizov did it in the last game against Dallas.
He has made uncanny goals and easy goals, bouncing off the head, probably if the opportunity arises............
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
@Goldenage : Here is a great vid for you posted on ESPN. It is called 'Connor McDavid's most amazing goals that you have to see again'.
Enjoy the most elite player in the game today with his elite goals!
https://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35433617
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
@Goldenage : Here us a Connor McDavid mid-season stat report:
As you can see he is still on route to 70 goals and 160 points this season. Many have won the Hart Trophy for much much less. No he is not that good LOL.
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
@Goldenage: Here is a link to the all time list of single season scoring in the NHL. As you can see the last time someone scored ≥ 130 points in a single season was before the year 2000. The NHL style has changed, hence scoring more than 120 points now is phenomenal. Kucherov had 128 in 2018-2019; McDavid had 123 last year. In the last 15 years that is it above 120. Kucherov is on schedule for 125 this year (overall behind McD and Draisaitl), McDavid simply decided to score more this year and try to take full control for the Oil. He is THAT GOOD.
McDavid = elite.
https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/most-points-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Connor is having a great year so far.
His best by far.
NHL has not changed.
There are always stars. Super stars, and role players.
The Super Star group is not at the 66 , 99, and 4 level at all yet.
Connor is working on it.
He still hasn’t caught Bossy in points per game. 99 and 66 ? Forget about it. Ain’t gonna happen.
@Goldenage
The NHL has become more defensive minded in the past 20 years relative to the past. The defensive style works to shut down speed that the legendary Oiler teams relied on for example. So it is hard to open up the game and get the wild scoring that occurred during the 70-90s. That is why McDavid is amazing and a superstar - scoring the points he is scoring in these days makes him well above >99% of his peers. You stated in the OP that McDavid is 'not that good' compared to the list above. Yes, yes he is, he is proving it, and the testimony of his peers agree with this - he is the superstar of his era, just like those skaters in your list. As you must be aware of, it is virtually impossible to do a direct statistical comparison between eras and this is where the reasoning is flawed to say that McDavid is not that good. If we compared NFL qb stats of current players to NFL stats of old qb's of a different era where the passing game was not what it is today, well we all agree that comparison is useless because the game changes. Same for NHL as I note here.
I will continue to update the stats as it proceeds with the greatest player his era, McDavid.
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Here you go @Goldenage. This is an analytical approach to the stats of the superstars in all NHL eras in the link. It does show what you say, NHL then is NHL now although the defensive approach has evolved over time.
"Based on G/GP and A/GP, cluster 5 represents the best of the best: Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, and McDavid."
"Here we see that McDavid truly is on pace to be one of the all time greats."
"We found that McDavid’s numbers mirror those of NHL legends like Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr."
Puck don't lie. McDavid is that good, within the elite group containing Gretz, Orr and Lemieux according to this quantitative analysis, just Gretz is GOAT by a long way.
https://medium.com/hockey-stats/comparing-current-nhl-superstars-with-nhl-all-time-greats-650af0ba0f87
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Could that be because McDavid isn't playing against, in your words, "the worst group of goalie talent ever"?
Goaltending in the NHL right now is getting worse by the minute.
Over half the league is under the .910 save percentage.
Roy’s good years were above .910
His bad years he was below .910
Very high scoring games this year compared to the last two years.
Most goals ever scored this year then in the past 20 years, but yes, Bossy and Gretzky played against horrible goalie talent. It got better from 1986 on during Mario’s prime.
Check out Plante’s stats.
Unreal at age 40&42
https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/plantja01.html
Plante, Sawchuk, Hall and Worsley were finished in the early 70’s.
Giacomin, Cheevers, and Parent were getting older and goals started increasing in the mid-70’s because of those legendary declines in talent.
Only Dryden and Tony O were outstanding later in the 70’s along with seasonally others.
Then the 80’s hit and Parent, Dryden and Cheesy were gone.
Only Billy Smith and a young Fuhr until Roy and later Hasek and Belfour near 1990 and it got better.
The goal scoring increases and decreases on goalie talent and superstar talent.
Stick innovation in 1978 or 1979 made life horrible for goalies.
They remained stand up when they should have used Glenn Halls butterfly instead.
Roy came along and goalies followed him and it got better.
In 1983 only one goalie who played in over 15 games had a save percentage above .900
Rollie Melanson
Goaltending abysmal.
Sawchuk rolling over in his grave.
You’d think Connor would get into the Top 50 all time most points in a season list if he were that good.
The game is being officiated differently now + rule changes. Remember how the league was being refd post 04-05 lockout when they cracked down (for all of one season) on clutch & grab hockey. Chara was a -21 post lockout and was barely a top 4 d-man because he couldn't keep up and was getting pyloned on the regular every night. Both he and (puckmoving d-man) Wade Redden were both free agents after the season. The Senators kept Redden instead because they assumed the league was going to remain under the new rules/officiating. That didn't happen and then Lurch went on to grabbing Norris votes with his arm tackling and constant cross-checking that he got away with for two decades.
Starting in 2017-18 they rewrote the rule to regulate the size of goalie pads. Some goalies like Braden Holtby immediately fell off a cliff - 2.07 GAA / .925 SV% to a 2.99 GAA / .907 SV% the next season and continued to drown out eventually becoming a backup and is now out of the league. See also Martin Brodeur's cosplaying of the Michelin Man.
The following year, they cracked down on slashing. This wasn't even called a penalty then
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BHSiVYCagH0
this, like The Trap, and Scotty Bowman/Mike Babcock coaching interference for decades, cannot be underestimated. Slashing was clearly being coached, it was always aimed at cracking guys across the wrists and hands, and it's hard to see it, and the refs and people in charge of refereeing were clearly on the side of well, it's hard to call unless it's blatantly obvious, so whatever.
and starting last season they finally got around to cracking down on cross-checking (which was basically all the Bruins' defensemen have done since the beginning of time....because it's what they had to do because they haven't had anyone other than the Moonfaced d-bag Chucky McAvoy, and formerly Torey Krug, who could skate a puck out of their own end since Bourque.
All of this is to say, there's actually some room out there now. Rush chances are way up and this season the powerplay opps are 7.44 a game. 10 years ago it was 5.54. Last month there were 8.53 PPs called per game. So that's a thing.
>
There’s also plenty of room in Olympic hockey with the bigger rinks and tougher penalties.
Scores are low amongst games played in the Olympics with NHL players because defenses are good and goalies are good.
Bruins beat the Flyers 6-0 and the Ducks 7-1. Those teams are bad.
1976 Montreal averaged beating teams by 3 goals.
The NHL talent is looking pretty crappy with this Bruins team dominating the way they are.
I read through and enjoy these hockey threads while knowing that for the most part I can't contribute (meaningfully). As always, I am enjoying the contributions of @lanemyer85 .
I do have a problem though. I cannot follow things properly. I don't know which poster feels which way about certain periods of play or styles or...I hope you guys understand. I'm thinking that it could be as simple as all of you (us) 'declare your positions' in a way/place that makes it so everyone can see and reference them. Of course these would be edited as opinions shifted. ...or perhaps a flowchart?
To be honest, I just realized...I need to start taking notes. I've been saying this for years and I've never done it.
the only thing that changes in Olympic hockey is more east/west play & cycling. The defense just keeps everyone out past the dots. There's just 4 more feet of room near the sidewalls that ends up being largely useless. Slot chances aren't going to suddenly increase.
and yeah the Bruins have had a lot of successful regular seasons in recent vintage. How's that gone when the playoffs roll around, when the ice shrinks, everyone starts playing competent defense, and teams shutdown the Bergeron line and they subsequently bow out in the first or second round every year? You sound like someone who recently tuned into WEEI and some English-murdering Chowd informed you the Bruins are doing well so you tuned into a hockey game for the first time since Milbury was dragging his useless carcass up the ice at 4 mph.
Evander Kane is back with the Oilers.
I happened to be watching when his wrist was skated over and that was gruesome. Glad he’s back. 👏
Stupid list…. Mistlin
No President's Trophy winner with 119 or more points has ever won the Cup. Think that'll change this year? I don't.
Ducks are on pace to outdistance Gretzky’s Mickey Mouse NJ Devils of 1983 in negative goal differential.
Looking at -155 for the Ducks.
NHL is very poor right now.
These Bruins are destroying the league with just a couple of good players.
It’s embarrassing.
I think the Quebec Remparts could win this league this year.
If you did your homework you’d know that shots per game haven’t changed the past six year but save percentage is at its lowest this year and goals against average is at its highest in that six year time frame.
Same shots per game means your open ice theory is totally wrong.
More goals against means goalies are worse.
Lower save percentage the same.
You can try to fool others with your ideas, but those who know the truth won’t be fooled.
The data clearly shows that goaltenders have been getting worse the past six years.
This year is the worst and McDavids scoring numbers are up.
McDavid is experiencing what Gretzky experienced in the early 80’s. Very poor goaltending.
No Plante, Sawchuk, Hall, Vachon, Worsley, Giacomin, Parent, Esposito and Dryden to face all the time in the 60’s and early 70’s the way Orr had to.
Lol.
C’mon Tabe and Lane Meyer .
No goalie equipment change since 2018.
Shots on goal per game the same since then.
Yet Save percentage at a 6 year low.
GAA at a 6 year high.
Yet you two keep telling me how the NHL talent gets better and better.
Why are goalies getting worse and not better ?
Rule enforcement and higher offensive capabilities to name two reasons.
yeesh....shots on goal mean nothing. You can have 35 shots in a game and if 28 of them are from the perimeter you've either scored 0, or if you're lucky, 1 goal. An average shot has a 8.15% of being a goal. That % triples when a teammate joins the rush...or consequently, if a defensive teammate joins the play on a 1 on 2, that % drops by 50%,
Roughly 70% of goals scored come from the slot area. The slot, obviously, is the most difficult area to generate shots from since it's where the opposing defense collapses and is bundled usually in the umbrella setup - which is also why rush chances are so important because you're generating shots while on the move before the defense can set up.
Florida was 1st in the NHL in generating slot shots last year while largely running away with the east. This year they're 29th. How's that look for them right now? That's what happens when you hire old Canadians to coach your team like it's still 1992...something you'd probably be on board with.
I'll go ahead and do the work for you on the hometown team since you won't. By that I mean the reason why the Bruins are better this year despite largely having the same players as last year save for old man Krejci coming back and the Zacha trade plus the new coach (hint: it's the coach). Here's what the Bruins collective defensemen did last year at evens (5 on 5).
21-22 / 22-23
73.3% (26th in the NHL) dump in rate / 64.1% this year (3rd in the NHL)
4.8% o-zone entries (18th in the NHL) / 5.7% (8th in the NHL)
0.5% rush chances (19th in the NHL) / 0.8% (6th in the NHL)
that's why. Amazing what can happen when you start playing modern hockey in spite of meatheads like Cam Neely in the front office. And they're doing this while not even having a real plus plus skater on the back end. Moonfaced d-bag McAvoy is a good skater for a guy his size, and Grzelcyk can go but they're the only two above average skaters on the blueline. So who would have thought that trying to play hockey like José Mourinho or Antonio Conte were coaching with their respective - here opposition, you take it (the puck, we'll wait for the counter attack instead) would be a boost to one's offense.
what's embarrassing is apparently tanking is an unfamiliar concept for you. Go look at the Blackhawks roster outside of Kane, Toews and Seth Jones. Look at the forwards they signed in the offseason (just to get up to the salary cap's floor) in addition to trading away a 40 goal scorer for a 1st round pick. They're both tanking for Connor Bedard my man...and so is Arizona and Montreal. Now I know you don't know who Bedard is since he doesn't play in the era where Denis Savard is lighting Luckys off of one another during pre-game warmups, but he should be somewhere between a MacKinnon or a smaller Matthews.
Lemieux and Lafluer and Bossy smoked as much as Savard. As did every other French Canadian.
You’re right, the NHL is horrible this year. Ducks and Blackhawks and many others.
Bruins D is only more effective this year because the rest of the league is pathetic.
4-1 at the Island last night. Lol.
NHL is horrible now.
Tell your kids to get off their phones and on the ice. To be more concerned with their skills then how many likes they get on Facebook.
You did say one thing right.
Bedard is the reason why the bottom tier teams are so bad this year. Glad someone understood this.
The NHL is embarrassing this year.
People will say what a great year McDavid is having and not understand why.
................
Like I said, @lanemyer85 always makes things fun.
You are like the Hemingway of hockey s-talk.
ETA: I mean that as a compliment, in case it's not clear lol
I’ll agree with that.
The one thing he does bring here is entertainment.
He’s entertaining because statements like this crack the knowledgeable fan up.
Perhaps he forgot where Patrick Kanes Cup winning goal against the Flyers came from.
Or Moose DuPonts shot for Philly in 1974-75.
Or Buzz Schneider or Eruziones goals in 1980 against Russia.
Was Bill Bakers important goal against Sweden in 1980 a bad idea because he shot from the point ?
I can go on and on.
“Shots on goal mean nothing “
😂😂😂
He is very entertaining
I am not being facetious when I write any of this...I love these threads but I can't follow along without getting confused sometimes. @Goldenage Can you write a comment where you summarize a few talking points succinctly for me/us. Also, I read your comment saying the Bruins record pace is due to intentional watering down of rosters to get a chance for Bedard. Are you saying that the Bruins season is an anomaly caused solely by this?
Bruins have outshot teams 34-29 per game this year.
The league talent is weak this year.
Bruins goalies are playing great.
Thank you @Goldenage
Connor McDavid is THAT GOOD.
Here is an ESPN vid of his most exciting goals this season so far:
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/35474059/connor-mcdavid-best-goals-2022-23-nhl-season-far
Excerpts:
"What has been extraordinary is the way he has been scoring them. Simply put: Oilers games -- such as Thursday's tilt against the Tampa Bay Lightning (9 ET, ESPN) -- have become a must-watch for both hardcore hockey fans and casual sports observers because one never knows when McDavid will create magic on the ice."
@Goldenage, do enjoy. Best, SH
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...
Unless your goal is to be marginally informed about hockey in 1978, I hope you're not actually listening to anything that this guy says. Trying to compare the 70's/80's to today is about as cognizant as trying to compare today's QB's to the NFL when there were 4 forward passes per game. Or today's starting pitchers to Fergie Jenkins. There wasn't a salary cap until 2006, so those Gretzky OIlers and 80's Islanders teams wouldn't exist today. Forwards played little to no defense prior to the mid-90's aside from teams having one checking line. The goalies played differently...it was read and react back then, now it's all about physics/percentages and cutting down angles and positioning. So when you see this guy or anyone else try to compare Gretzky to McJesus, just stop reading. It's all dumb. This modern (deadpuck/overcoached defensive) era is 1994 to present and really, you can probably start drawing a line to a new era for the post-Covid era where scoring has jumped because they finally got around to calling games by the actual rulebook (save for never calling charging) and Bettman's desire to have 2.5 hour games maybe isn't so important in the streaming era.
Then read the post above his nonsense with the actual stats that back things up. The Bruins are better this year because they are actually attempting to play offense as a team instead of what they did under the previous two coaches which was play slog/gum-it-up hockey aside from freeing up the Bergeron/Marchand/Pastrnak line. FWIW teams roll 4 forward lines and 3 defensemen pairs (then they'll have 2 lines for the powerplay and 2 lines for the penalty kill). So when the playoffs rolled around all a team had to do was shutdown their one scoring line, which most teams did, and when the goalie(s) couldn't steal them a game here and there, they were bounced in the first or second round. You could get away with that style 10-15 years ago, but not today unless you had half of the roster being some of the best defensive forwards and defensemen in the league + a top end goaler. The league is too fast, too skilled, no goons sucking up 8 minutes a night, the slow-moving defensemen aren't five to six to a side like the Bruins were in their previous era etc.
see it's got nothing to do with basic shots on goal, look at the percentages I posted above. Every night teams get outshot and win games. The average shot has a 8.15% chance of being a goal. The further you are away from the goal, the percentage plummets. That's why shots from the slot total 70%+ of scoring. and that number increases when it's a shot off the rush (ie the hockey equivalent of a fastbreak in basketball). So, no, it's not a "watered down NHL", "bad goaltending", or tanking - 3 of the 4 tanking teams are in the Western Conference anyway. They're playing differently, a more attacking style (not constantly sitting back and waiting for the counterattack like most soccer clubs do ) under a new, not of touch head coach. There's a reason coaches like Mike Babcock and Claude Julien are sitting at home pounding Molsons. They're as old and out of touch as a certain frequent poster here.
you mean the goal Kane scored on the Flyers' 3rd string AHL goalie, Michael Leighton? Yeah I remember that goal that every high school goalie had a 91% chance of stopping.
5 games on the slate last night. 3 of the 5 teams outshot the opposition and lost. Vancouver outshot the Lightning 37 to 24 and lost 5-2. Don't recall which game, but this past weekend someone was outshot 50-18 and won. Got any other well-reasoned theories?
Kudos to @lanemyer85 and his detailed analysis which is bang on.
Here is a vid page for the Oil's game last night. Watch the superstar McDavid on a breakaway, goalie has no chance as he chooses where to put the puck. Also watch McDavid set up Hyman for a goal...........
https://www.espn.com/nhl/video/_/gameId/401459333
Successful transactions with-Boosibri,lkeigwin,TomB,Broadstruck,coinsarefun,Type2,jom,ProfLiz, UltraHighRelief,Barndog,EXOJUNKIE,ldhair,fivecents,paesan,Crusty...