Connor McDavid is good, but not that good.
Goldenage
Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
Fastest skater since Bobby Orr though. 😎
Great player ? Yes !
Superstar like Mario or Wayne ? No
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Goldenage
Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
Goldenage
Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
Goldenage
Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Looks like connor won’t even work up a good sweat before he passes orr in career points.
In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
Looks like he’s struggling just to stay ahead of him 😂😂😂😂
Look at all these HOF FORWARDS who couldn’t do better then a DEFENDER 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
So 3 players are ahead of Connor on your scoring chart but he’s not a superstar?
Looks like he’s on pace this year to set a career high in goals scored.
In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
McDavid averages 1.00 or more points per game against every team in the NHL for his career. Bobby... didn't.
52 points in 27 games is incredible.
the takeaway is that this guy is clearly from New England and hasn't watched a game since 1985. Thus he hasn't figured out that all 4 lines are actually responsible for playing defense for the last 30 years. Unlike when Bobert Orr and 99 were skating around a bunch of guys who peeled off at their own blueline, or the goaltending which is completely played/coached differently now. By differently, I mean galacticly better.
but he's (unintentionally) right about one thing. McJesus is not that great....defensively. Roughly .39th percentile across the keys, 29th percentile in forechecking despite that speed, thus he's well below average in his own end. Unlike Auston Matthews who is top 10 in takeaways and #2 in breaking up passes among forwards, #1 in forecheck chances etc. But I can see why OldBruinFanboyGuy is down on Mcjesus since he's only like 99th percentile in shooting, 100th percentile in speed, 100th percentile in playmaking, 100th percentile in transition in the most difficult era to score....
You forget the times, defenses have changed from Gretz days to now. It is hard to run like the old Oil did given how they block on the boards and close things down now. CMD in a different era, might be a 300 point man. Still he might score 180 this year which is herculean for the times. Oil all the way and always!
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LOL, you can't compare that era with today. I have seen CMD make some mind boggling plays that even the great one did not do. Keep in mind also who Gretz had to play with every game. Oil was full is superstars top to bottom during the Gretz era. Supporting cast helps. CMD's supporting cast is one in LD.
Without doubt CMD is a superstar. As of this moment, CMD has 54 points in 26 games for this season and if he keeps it up, we are talking 180, in this era. That is superstar territory for anyone who knows hockey.
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At least you got some points correct, but from 1966-1970 is was tougher to score then from 2018-2022.
https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html
Gretzky had it the easiest for sure.
Connor doesn’t play defense.
He’s good, but not that good.
I had to read your post again for laughs. Thanks for the laughs.
Love the word “galactic ally”😂
Only 6 goalies who entered the league since 1980 have made the hall of fame.
Orr played against 6 different HOFamers goalies in one month .
Gretzky from 1979-1986 played against Billy Smith and an ancient Tony O and Rogie.
Orr spent most of his time against great teams like Montreal and Chicago playing defense.
8 straight nORRis trophies.
Connor doesn’t.
Goals have been easier to come by the past five years then from 1966-1970.
Sorry
https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/stats.html
Age 22
Orr 139 points
McDavid 116 points
NHL tougher to score in 1969 then in 2018.
Orr won the Norris
Connor doesn’t play defense.
Getting the picture yet ?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Jack Campbell goalie. Edmonton Oilers
4.12 GAA
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
What’s the word Lane Meyer?
😂😂🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Please find a picture of Connor doing this. I’ll wait.🤣🤣🤣🤣
Sorry Hull. I’m not letting you shoot that. 8 straight nORRis trophies.
117 of 657 games is a weird definition of "most of his time".
More than half of his games were played against expansion teams.
I've demonstrated it on here before but his numbers are wildly padded by expansion. He had a still-excellent 1.15 PPG against non-expansion teams but a 1.61 against expansion.
Yes, the NHL in 1969/70 was harder to score in than the NHL of 2018/2019. By a whopping .068 goals per game. It's also inarguable that the average player in 2018/2019 was significantly better than the average player in 69/70. And that's even with larger rosters in 18/19.
Since +/- is the greatest stat ever, why was Orr only +4 in 69/70 against non-expansion teams? Including a -4 against Montreal?
McDavid, on the other hand, has only 18 games against expansion teams in his career with 24 points in those 18. So his numbers are actually slightly lower against expansion squads.
Sorry.
Expansion to 20+ teams is for all players. Gretzky and McDavid included.
Players today are not as good as back then. They are cell phone and video game addicts. Get on the ice boys instead of the electronics.
Significantly better ? Lol.
Orr + 0.90 per game
Gretzky +.35
McDavid +0.20
Play some defense young men.
It’s part of the game.
Defensive play does not exist for those two pretty boys. That’s why Sather benched Gretzky. McDavid should be too.
Orr - GOAT
These significantly better players and many others would have never played in the Original Six when Orr did.
Anyway. McDavid is a great offensive player. No doubt about it.
Hey, at least this time you picked a guy that actually played against Orr. One whole game.
It's utterly laughable that you think NHL players today aren't better - on average - than guys 50+ years ago. But you're right, no one ever had a -43 back in the day. Certainly not a guy who played more NHL games than Orr himself like, say, Larry Cahan. Or a -57 like Doug Roberts.
That's on top of how laughable it is that you continue to stress +/- as definitive.
Also, kudos for (again) ignoring everything all the ways Orr inflated his stats against expansion teams.
Laughable?
They’re all the same. Just different equipment. That’s all.
Yesterday
Today
You put Matthews and Bergeron in 1950s skates using 1950s sticks and they are Frank Mahovlich and Henri Richard.
Players aren’t better. Equipment is.
It’s just something you don’t understand.
Carey Price isn’t better than Roy.
Roy isn’t better than Dryden.
Dryden isn’t better than Plante.
And the two they now have are better than those four.? 😂😂😂
Watch this CMD highlight reel for this year, including some of the slo-mo, and tell me there is a better offensive player out there. He is clearly a Superstar but that will take a sustained few years to convince the naysayers. As I said I have been blown away by his abilities, Gretz had quick hands, but CMD has quick hands that do majic!
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A shorter but more explosive highlight reel that shows just how good CMD is with the puck.
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Even more. Here are some comments from under the vid by youtubers (and this is all from ≥ 2 years ago folks):
I love how the entire Toronto arena just simultaneously exhales “woah...”
Dude plays with speed, power and finesse that I havent seen since I don't know when. He's like a combo of Pavel Bure and Pavel Datsyuk.
I’ll never not believe he is the best player in the world 😍🔥 He has it all, speed, hands, speed, a shot, and most of all speed 😂👏🏽
Its not even funny how many times I was left speechless during this video. Certified BEAUTY!
Connor McDavid, Superstar:
If the Oil could just put some better players on the ice, then it would be like the glory years again with Mess, Gretz, Kurri, Anderson, Coffey, Lowe, McT, and on and on...............
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Why do you steadfastly insist on ignoring the word "average"?
The average player is significantly better. Athletes don't regress. Training is much better. That's not even arguable. The NHL now draws from all over the world. The US creates waaaaaaay more players than before. There are no zero skill players in the league today like there used to be. But, sure, average player hasn't improved.
But, hey, at least you were able to refute the "Price is better than Roy" claim that no one made.
If athletes don’t regress then why were goalies terrible from 1975-1985?
What happened between 1900-1985 that made goalies so bad ?
More kids were playing hockey then ever before. We started drawing from everywhere besides Russia.
Why the regression?
HOF goalies that entered the league from 1965-1973
Giacomin
Parent
Cheevers
Dryden
Vachon
Smith
Esposito
From 1974-1985
Fuhr
Why the regression ?
More kids were playing from 1974-85. Why ?
Based on your “on average “ theory there should have been 7-8 HOF goalies that entered the league between 1974-1985.
Orr could face 5 HOF goalies in their prime IN ONE MONTH.
Gretzky from 1980-1985 never faced any HOF goalie in their prime, outside of a 8-13 year veteran Billy Smith.
Look at Bowman’s 3 best Canadian goalies ever. See anyone there from the 70’s or 80’s ? No. Plante, Sawchuk, and Hall. Orr faced them all.
Same reason pitching is dominating baseball right now. Stuff is cyclical but skill level and athleticism don't regress. They just don't. Results ebb and flow but athleticism doesn't.
And maybe there were so many HOF goalies in that prior era because the forwards were so bad (as a group).
Connor with 4 more points tonight.
How did he do on defense? Hell I don’t know he probably left that to the defensemen.😳
In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
Skill level does regress.
No Brazilian soccer team has ever had the talent like when they won two cups in a row.
Nor Italy when they won two.
Holland of the 70s had generational skill and ability.
It happens.
You’ll probably never see a Gretzky- Lemieux like pairing ever again together in the NHL.
It was a gift that doesn’t happen often. You’ll never see another Orr either. If you do, count yourself lucky.
Who do you think was USA’s best goalie ever ?
Tim Thomas for me.
Not going to debate it though.
Just asking.
I can agree with you here. Todays players are not better. they may be a little stronger/faster, but that is simply because of better training/nutrition. If players from the 20's, 40's, 60's etc. were born now, they would be just as strong/fast as current players. Todays athletes train year-round. It is pretty common knowledge that Lebraon James spends over 1MM a year on his nutrition/fitness. that was not the case back in the 60's when Orr played.
I think that a generational talent like Orr (or Gretzky, Lemieux etc) would be just as generational today if given the same equipment/training. I have no reason to believe Orr wouldnt be the fastest player on the Ice today.
I think some people look at it almost through an evolutionary lens. well, even if you believe in evolution, 50 or 100 years is not nearly enough time to change the human physique to make players today different from their predecessors from 50 years ago
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Sorry this list is fatally flawed, During the 80s and 90s I watched alot of the players listed while living in Edmonton, Beantown, and DC. I see Neely on the list with no Kurri, no Lowe, and other key players from the Oil. While I did enjoy watching Neely in Beantown during his peak years on a largely successful Bruin team, he is not close to a host of Oil players during their 5 championship era. Not even close. Further, although Pronger led the Oil to a NHL finals appearance, he was not even close to Kevin Lowe. This list does not make any sense.
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Connor McDavid, Superstar watch for 12/13/22:
1 goal, 3 assists, now has 59 points in 30 games this season. The goal was classic McDavid, he skated through a host of Predators and then made the goalie look like an amateur.
Best, SH
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It’s a list of Canadian greats only.
Lowe better than Neely is debatable but Neely wins.
Oilers were good, but not as good as Scotty’s 1970 Canadiens. Not even close.
Oilers don’t even crack the Top 10
Won this last night 🏒🥅
When hockey was hockey 🙂
People who only watched hockey from 1980 on up don’t understand what a great hockey player is.
It’s a two way player who dominated
both ends of the ice.
Orr and Howe fit that bill.
None of your heroes do.
Including McDavid.
The Wild just split 2 games with Edmonton.
Kaprizov is better.
Skill level absolutely does not regress - overall. It's silly to try and refute that by talking about one specific team or country. The baseline across the board is higher.
They're A LOT stronger. Again, on average. They're A LOT faster. On average.
Of course it's because of better training and nutrition. That's what makes them....... better.
The average player is 20lbs heavier than the average player of the late 60s while being negligibly taller. And it ain't fat in those 20lbs. That's a good amount of strength that's been added. While increasing the size of the league five-fold.
The worst player in the NHL in 1967, even given modern training, wouldn't make a roster today. Because the NHL pulls from a worldwide talent pool and greatly improved US talent pool.
Exactly. Today's players are better because of exactly the stuff you're talking about.
Correct. That's, again, what makes modern players better.
>
Maybe, maybe not. But the fastest guy today (most likely McDavid though Larkin holds the speed record and Athanasiou might be faster than either one) is faster than Orr was. Is it equipment, training or whatever? Doesn't matter. The result is that they're faster.
In 1967, the world record in the 100m dash was 10.0 seconds. In 2020, to even qualify for the Olympics, a time of 10.05 was required. Dozens of men met that standard.
Athletes get better. They just do. And, yeah, a lot of it is training and nutrition. Doesn't matter. The end result is still better.
Enough is enough already.
The HOF goalies (pre 80s) were great because the quality of skaters sucked. It’s that simple. They could barely skate. I’m not saying all players but a vast majority. That’s why Orr stood out. He could skate. There were some good teams in the 70s but the game was entirely different. The game evolved in the 80s…as it should have. You saw the influx of European players. That helped bring up the skill level for all teams. But the game changed. It became much more physical along the boards… and so on.
Hockey hit its peak (for me) around the early to mid 90s.
There’s obviously more to this. But again, Gretzky is the greatest hockey player to ever step foot on the ice.
Size doesn’t matter in hockey.
Lemieux 20 pounds on Gretzky, Gretzky better ppg.
Ovie 20 pounds on Bossy. Bossy
better goals per game.
You never saw Orr. He’d beat them all easily in speed and then kick their tails too.
LOL. Of course size matters. Size and strength let you win puck battles and fight through checks. It's laughable to claim size doesn't matter.
Bossy scored more goals per game than Ovechkin. So? He also scored fewer total because he fell apart. Maybe size did matter after all. Besides, weren't you just telling us how awful all the goalies were in that era? Maybe that's why Bossy did so well. I mean, that's what you say with Gretzky...
Such a weird thing to cherry pick two guys as your comparison like that. Why didn't you pick Lemieux and Howe? Or Lemieux and Orr? Because, oh yeah, it wouldn't support your incorrect hypothesis.
Again. You cannot compare Ovi and Bossy. Two different eras. Both are/were phoenominal.
Could Ovi play in the 80s/90s? 100 percent. Health would probably have been the issue. Body checks, open ice hits and cheap shots were much more common.
Could Bossy have been successful in 2020s? 100 percent. He probably would have played longer.
All hypothetical….
Puck battles aren’t necessary when no one can catch you. Speed and agility trump size and strength
Your top O and D men in the league now are small. McDavid and Fox.
Bossy didn’t take peds or he would have lasted longer.