Well my my CDN favs - 2023 $ up in MS69 to $56 and MS70 $88. But no change in my 1923 and 1883-O$. (Canaries in the cage). 1936-D San Diego in 66 holding steady. My 1941 MS 65 50c at $126 CPG. (Did it just recently slide?). Seems cheap maybe get some more WLH from GC. Picked up copy recent CPG mag seems like some minus signs Morgan $. With summer doldrums coming up expect coins to drop some. Whatever don’t quit your day job to deal coins.
@124Spider said:
By any rational definition of the term "overpriced," coins that are selling at the market rate are not "overpriced." They may be surprisingly expensive, but if lots of people are buying at that price, it's silly to pretend that it's "overpriced."
Your statement presupposes that market inefficiencies don’t exist. They do. That’s why crashes and market adjustments happen.
No, my statement recognizes that the market prices for these non-essential items are set by the balance between supply and demand, and so, by definition, the prevailing price at which coins are selling isn't "overpriced." No, "more than I want to pay" is not the same thing as "overpriced."
Yes, markets change, and today's fair price may not be tomorrow's fair price. But that doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make todays fair price "overpriced" if tomorrow's price is lower, any more than it doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make today's fair price "underpriced" if tomorrow's price is higher.
One certainly can believe that certain segments of the market are "overheated." One can reasonably believe (though without any evidence to support the belief) that the market is due for a "correction." Neither of these is the same thing as specific coins generally being "overpriced" right now--their present price is the price at which sellers have good reason to believe they will sell reasonably quickly, also known as the fair market price (i.e., not "overpriced" at the present time.
@jmlanzaf said:
I think most all markets, except for tiny niche markets, are fairly efficiently priced.
>
When one is putting together a date and mintmark set there are inefficiencies. For example, the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. Out of a 74 coin set there are 23 MS64 Barber dimes with smaller populations that can be bought with less money. Five of them for less than $1,000.
Are those sale prices or just an inaccurate price guide?
But if they sell for that price, you can't assume that's inefficient pricing. If demand is higher for 13-S, the price should be higher even if the supply is the same. The market is large enough to sort out price differences.
@jmlanzaf said:
I think most all markets, except for tiny niche markets, are fairly efficiently priced.
>
When one is putting together a date and mintmark set there are inefficiencies. For example, the 1913-S Barber dime is one of the most overvalued Barber dimes. There are 29+1 in PCGS MS64 @ $2,350. Out of a 74 coin set there are 23 MS64 Barber dimes with smaller populations that can be bought with less money. Five of them for less than $1,000.
Are those sale prices or just an inaccurate price guide?
But if they sell for that price, you can't assume that's inefficient pricing. If demand is higher for 13-S, the price should be higher even if the supply is the same. The market is large enough to sort out price differences.
To begin, there are only 30 PCGS MS64 and 4 that have CACs. PCGS price guide is $2,350 and CAC says $2,400. If a dealer had one for sale it is likely it would be priced based on the price guide. And it would most likely sell based on the price guide. The last one sold at Heritage for $2,232.50 in September of 2016! Yet, there are 23 other MS64 Barber dimes with lower populations and lower price guide values.
Yes, the 1913-S Dime is highly regarded because of its low mintage. At 510,000 pieces, the 1913-S Dime has the second smallest mintage, only the 1895-O Dime has a smaller mintage. According to Ron Guth, the 1913-S Dime in Mint State is only slightly rarer than the "type" dates because collectors put aside ample quantities of nice examples.
So why would a 1913-S be more special than those 23 other dimes to a date and mintmark collector? It had a $845 PCGS value in 20005! Hoarding?
@124Spider said:
By any rational definition of the term "overpriced," coins that are selling at the market rate are not "overpriced." They may be surprisingly expensive, but if lots of people are buying at that price, it's silly to pretend that it's "overpriced."
Your statement presupposes that market inefficiencies don’t exist. They do. That’s why crashes and market adjustments happen.
No, my statement recognizes that the market prices for these non-essential items are set by the balance between supply and demand, and so, by definition, the prevailing price at which coins are selling isn't "overpriced." No, "more than I want to pay" is not the same thing as "overpriced."
Yes, markets change, and today's fair price may not be tomorrow's fair price. But that doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make todays fair price "overpriced" if tomorrow's price is lower, any more than it doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make today's fair price "underpriced" if tomorrow's price is higher.
One certainly can believe that certain segments of the market are "overheated." One can reasonably believe (though without any evidence to support the belief) that the market is due for a "correction." Neither of these is the same thing as specific coins generally being "overpriced" right now--their present price is the price at which sellers have good reason to believe they will sell reasonably quickly, also known as the fair market price (i.e., not "overpriced" at the present time.
For crying out loud. Will people stop using the word overpriced so that we can move on with the conversation? Apparently overpriced only refers to items that are priced so high they are NOT SELLING.
Everyone here understands what we are talking about in these threads. Some people just can’t get past the misuse of the word.
It would be much easier to just say “priced higher than I think it should be.” Then we can actually move forward.
@JoeLewis said:
For crying out loud. Will people stop using the word overpriced so that we can move on with the conversation? Apparently overpriced only refers to items that are priced so high they are NOT SELLING.
Everyone here understands what we are talking about in these threads. Some people just can’t get past the misuse of the word.
It would be much easier to just say “priced higher than I think it should be.” Then we can actually move forward.
Not necessarily overpriced but catching up with the market. Unfortunately that also means the ugly/problem coins might also be increasing. It also depends on the series I think.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Everyone is getting caught up on wording. We could just as easily phrase it as “which issues are likely to stagnate or depreciate in value over the coming months?”
We added many new collectors to our little niche during Covid. They had plenty of time on their hands....and free $$$.
Aside from that, silver and gold have risen strongly and coins priced off the bullion metals have also risen.
As I am on record believing that gold will hit $3,000 before the decade ends and $5,000 by 2035, I think folks should look back on the prices and the time to accumulate at those prices as gifts they lay at current prices.
Gold lay at $300 or a bit below for YEARS and I'll wager nobody rang the bell here until it rose 3-fold, 4-fold, and 6-fold up to the 2011 peak.
With all the minus signs am seeing in this qtr CPG magazine…. There are pluses however like 1921-S Walker…. And 1919 Walker in 65 & 66. Many of the gold coin issues looking good. So just depends on where invested.
No coin has ever sold, or ever will be sold, for more than someone is willing to pay. I'll never understand the reason for the contention that any coin is priced at more than it "should" be.
@Cameonut said:
What I think are overpriced are higher grade moderns.
When is the last time you tried finding a high grade raw modern?
I don’t know about classics but I think moderns are underpriced.
You could literally spend thousands on mint sets and still not make the grade.
Kind of a tough argument to gauge without specifying the grade that we're talking about.
The grade where the price jump occurs. Typically 68 is the magic number but take the 78 Kennedy Half in 67 And the price guide is 550.00.
At $10 a set you would have to buy 55 of them. Granted I’ve only bought maybe 25 in this particular year and so far only one MS66.
@Cameonut said:
What I think are overpriced are higher grade moderns.
When is the last time you tried finding a high grade raw modern?
I don’t know about classics but I think moderns are underpriced.
You could literally spend thousands on mint sets and still not make the grade.
Kind of a tough argument to gauge without specifying the grade that we're talking about.
The grade where the price jump occurs. Typically 68 is the magic number but take the 78 Kennedy Half in 67 And the price guide is 550.00.
At $10 a set you would have to buy 55 of them. Granted I’ve only bought maybe 25 in this particular year and so far only one MS66.
I know. My point was that the person you were responding to hadn't specified what "higher grade moderns" meant. An argument can be made that 66 and 67 prices are "too high" even if 68s are generally scarce.
I generally believe that the market is what the market is. But I don't know what "higher grade modern" meant so I don't know what that poster meant. Take away registry sets and 66s and 67s may all be raw and 2x face value.
Inflated, as in, 'an abnormal increase that is prone to sudden collapse.' If 200-400% increases in just months is not inflated, then what is?
Depends on how many coins we're talking about. The two examples you pulled are kind of unusual. A Fair 2 quarter? Is that line representing a single sale?
Inflated, as in, 'an abnormal increase that is prone to sudden collapse.' If 200-400% increases in just months is not inflated, then what is?
Depends on how many coins we're talking about. The two examples you pulled are kind of unusual. A Fair 2 quarter? Is that line representing a single sale?
I'm not sure how PCGS arrives at their prices, hopefully note based off of single sales. I just picked out 2 civil war era quarters I collect that are (were) in the affordable range. But it seems to be a trend among many, many coins since Covid. I think it's a bubble.
@ms71 said:
No coin has ever sold, or ever will be sold, for more than someone is willing to pay. I'll never understand the reason for the contention that any coin is priced at more than it "should" be.
People are understanding the question, and answering it as, “Are U.S. coins costing more than you are willing to pay?”
Costing more than willing to invest in / yes. I have better choices (buying it right) in other areas.
I like US Coins and have some but also in other areas which are more affordable to my customers and appear way undervalued vs.US. So many US more than what I want to invest plus bid wars. I don’t want to be end user or trying retail something where little room. A lot of my US sold out during Pandemic period. So rebuilding that part of roster assuming deal there for me. Have found some but been blocked (bid war) in others.
Comments
Well my my CDN favs - 2023 $ up in MS69 to $56 and MS70 $88. But no change in my 1923 and 1883-O$. (Canaries in the cage). 1936-D San Diego in 66 holding steady. My 1941 MS 65 50c at $126 CPG. (Did it just recently slide?). Seems cheap maybe get some more WLH from GC. Picked up copy recent CPG mag seems like some minus signs Morgan $. With summer doldrums coming up expect coins to drop some. Whatever don’t quit your day job to deal coins.
No, my statement recognizes that the market prices for these non-essential items are set by the balance between supply and demand, and so, by definition, the prevailing price at which coins are selling isn't "overpriced." No, "more than I want to pay" is not the same thing as "overpriced."
Yes, markets change, and today's fair price may not be tomorrow's fair price. But that doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make todays fair price "overpriced" if tomorrow's price is lower, any more than it doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make today's fair price "underpriced" if tomorrow's price is higher.
One certainly can believe that certain segments of the market are "overheated." One can reasonably believe (though without any evidence to support the belief) that the market is due for a "correction." Neither of these is the same thing as specific coins generally being "overpriced" right now--their present price is the price at which sellers have good reason to believe they will sell reasonably quickly, also known as the fair market price (i.e., not "overpriced" at the present time.
Are those sale prices or just an inaccurate price guide?
But if they sell for that price, you can't assume that's inefficient pricing. If demand is higher for 13-S, the price should be higher even if the supply is the same. The market is large enough to sort out price differences.
To begin, there are only 30 PCGS MS64 and 4 that have CACs. PCGS price guide is $2,350 and CAC says $2,400. If a dealer had one for sale it is likely it would be priced based on the price guide. And it would most likely sell based on the price guide. The last one sold at Heritage for $2,232.50 in September of 2016! Yet, there are 23 other MS64 Barber dimes with lower populations and lower price guide values.
Yes, the 1913-S Dime is highly regarded because of its low mintage. At 510,000 pieces, the 1913-S Dime has the second smallest mintage, only the 1895-O Dime has a smaller mintage. According to Ron Guth, the 1913-S Dime in Mint State is only slightly rarer than the "type" dates because collectors put aside ample quantities of nice examples.
So why would a 1913-S be more special than those 23 other dimes to a date and mintmark collector? It had a $845 PCGS value in 20005! Hoarding?
No, my statement recognizes that the market prices for these non-essential items are set by the balance between supply and demand, and so, by definition, the prevailing price at which coins are selling isn't "overpriced." No, "more than I want to pay" is not the same thing as "overpriced."
Yes, markets change, and today's fair price may not be tomorrow's fair price. But that doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make todays fair price "overpriced" if tomorrow's price is lower, any more than it doesn't, by any rational sense of the word, make today's fair price "underpriced" if tomorrow's price is higher.
One certainly can believe that certain segments of the market are "overheated." One can reasonably believe (though without any evidence to support the belief) that the market is due for a "correction." Neither of these is the same thing as specific coins generally being "overpriced" right now--their present price is the price at which sellers have good reason to believe they will sell reasonably quickly, also known as the fair market price (i.e., not "overpriced" at the present time.
For crying out loud. Will people stop using the word overpriced so that we can move on with the conversation? Apparently overpriced only refers to items that are priced so high they are NOT SELLING.
Everyone here understands what we are talking about in these threads. Some people just can’t get past the misuse of the word.
It would be much easier to just say “priced higher than I think it should be.” Then we can actually move forward.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
That is correct!
All coins are underpriced compared to the number of Fiat dollars our government is creating.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I think everything is overpriced.
Not necessarily overpriced but catching up with the market. Unfortunately that also means the ugly/problem coins might also be increasing. It also depends on the series I think.
Collector of Capped Bust Halves, SLQ's, Commems, and random cool stuff! @davidv_numismatics on Instagram
Everyone is getting caught up on wording. We could just as easily phrase it as “which issues are likely to stagnate or depreciate in value over the coming months?”
We added many new collectors to our little niche during Covid. They had plenty of time on their hands....and free $$$.
Aside from that, silver and gold have risen strongly and coins priced off the bullion metals have also risen.
As I am on record believing that gold will hit $3,000 before the decade ends and $5,000 by 2035, I think folks should look back on the prices and the time to accumulate at those prices as gifts they lay at current prices.
Gold lay at $300 or a bit below for YEARS and I'll wager nobody rang the bell here until it rose 3-fold, 4-fold, and 6-fold up to the 2011 peak.
With all the minus signs am seeing in this qtr CPG magazine…. There are pluses however like 1921-S Walker…. And 1919 Walker in 65 & 66. Many of the gold coin issues looking good. So just depends on where invested.
Forum software glitch
Forum software glitch
The forum sometimes posts by itself. This posted while I was asleep (three times, it seems), from an old post. Odd....
Certainly inflated.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
Rising doesn't necessary mean inflated
No in general. Some are though.
No coin has ever sold, or ever will be sold, for more than someone is willing to pay. I'll never understand the reason for the contention that any coin is priced at more than it "should" be.
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
What I'm noticing is a marked increase in "net" quotes on dealer websites.
Or "this is our best price."
And discount emails.
When is the last time you tried finding a high grade raw modern?
I don’t know about classics but I think moderns are underpriced.
You could literally spend thousands on mint sets and still not make the grade.
In most cases, yes.
Kind of a tough argument to gauge without specifying the grade that we're talking about.
The grade where the price jump occurs. Typically 68 is the magic number but take the 78 Kennedy Half in 67 And the price guide is 550.00.
At $10 a set you would have to buy 55 of them. Granted I’ve only bought maybe 25 in this particular year and so far only one MS66.
Inflated, as in, 'an abnormal increase that is prone to sudden collapse.' If 200-400% increases in just months is not inflated, then what is?
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
I know. My point was that the person you were responding to hadn't specified what "higher grade moderns" meant. An argument can be made that 66 and 67 prices are "too high" even if 68s are generally scarce.
I generally believe that the market is what the market is. But I don't know what "higher grade modern" meant so I don't know what that poster meant. Take away registry sets and 66s and 67s may all be raw and 2x face value.
Depends on how many coins we're talking about. The two examples you pulled are kind of unusual. A Fair 2 quarter? Is that line representing a single sale?
I'm not sure how PCGS arrives at their prices, hopefully note based off of single sales. I just picked out 2 civil war era quarters I collect that are (were) in the affordable range. But it seems to be a trend among many, many coins since Covid. I think it's a bubble.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
People are understanding the question, and answering it as, “Are U.S. coins costing more than you are willing to pay?”
That’s the only way this makes sense.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Costing more than willing to invest in / yes. I have better choices (buying it right) in other areas.
I like US Coins and have some but also in other areas which are more affordable to my customers and appear way undervalued vs.US. So many US more than what I want to invest plus bid wars. I don’t want to be end user or trying retail something where little room. A lot of my US sold out during Pandemic period. So rebuilding that part of roster assuming deal there for me. Have found some but been blocked (bid war) in others.