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Unc or proof Nickel?

logger7logger7 Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

A dealer sold this as MS61, what say you?


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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,942 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would not surprise me if it was a proof. I suspect the dealer sold it as an MS61 just to get rid of it as it is very unattractive.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hard to tell, but at a minimum it’s PL.

    Submit it as a Proof to NGC, I’m sure they’ll accommodate you 😉. Sorry couldn’t resist….

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It does seem to approximate a PL coin.... but that is the best I can offer. Cheers, RickO

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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The image looks proof but the Mint re-used proof dies and the first year of issue tends to be very well struck. I suspect it's just a well struck Mint State coin with PL surfaces and scattered hairlines/contact marks which might "disappear" if the coin was angled properly.

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The OP coin has a strange strike when compared to others. But this is not a series I keep track of so maybe not uncommon.

    Here is the OP enlarged. I put some arrows on it to point out what I was seeing. However, just about all of the letters and some other areas look similar. The letters look 'fat', a little flat and have much less area in the inside loops. The wreath is similar and one area appears to go to the PL field. The obverse is similar on the date and the ear just blends into the face. Added a proof and MS for comparison.


    Proof 64

    MS 64

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some 1883 NC Nickels have a PL appearance as well as a very strong strike. You would have to look at the rims the thickness of the planchet.

    I believe Id treat it with some MS70 prior to submission.

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    unless the proofs are known to have a lot of long die cracks, it is a BS.

    the PL appearance could also be exaggerated by what appears to be bright scanned images and that is if the images weren't also tampered with.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2022 4:41PM

    If the images are at least reasonably accurate, my guess is Proof. I don’t recall seeing many, if any business strikes with that apparent degree of reflectivity and contrast. That said, some of the design details look quite weak for a Proof. And if those are die cracks through some of the stars on the left side of the obverse, that bolsters the case for a business strike.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Probably the die cracks are indicative of a business strike. Some significant toning, not sure how that would have happened. Big jump in value between business strikes and proofs. That dealer has left money on the table before, sold me an "ugly" 3 Bust half once for common 1823 money.

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    erwindocerwindoc Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Here is my MS example and has a long crack that gives it some character!

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    fwiw, i tried to find another coin to match the obv crack pattern of the OP coin but after viewing MANY unc examples, at least half with various crack patterns, i didn't find a single example on business strikes. there appear to be a LOT of different obv dies used.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,081 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for others' due diligence on this; someone actually bought it after I listed it for $55 on ebay, bought it for around $42. It would be great if the buyer gives a critical assessment on the coin but that rarely happens. Of course I could have cancelled the order under the grounds that I had listed it as an Unc. and it may be a PR, but the buyer could have left me a neg on that.

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    rmpsrpmsrmpsrpms Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is the closed loop on the bottom of the wreath a known variety of these Nickels? If not, then this would be a new variety, or perhaps a counterfeit.

    PM me for coin photography equipment, or visit my website:

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,944 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    … if those are die cracks through some of the stars on the left side of the obverse, that bolsters the case for a business strike.

    They look like die cracks to me, which leaves me 99% sure it’s a business strike.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

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