Better Chance of Show Submission Upgrade Success - More Experienced, or Less Experienced Graders?

winesteven

Here are the assumptions for this poll:

1. Eight coins, valued between $10,000 and $40,000, are submitted at a show for Reconsideration. They are each in a “whole” grade, and the request is only for a “+”.
2. All coins have nice eye appeal, and none are at the lower end for that grade.
3. Assume the very best graders on this forum saw these coins in hand, and using CURRENT TPG grading standards, determined that two coins of the eight merit a “+” grade.
4. FYI, for regular Show Submission for coins valued from $2,500 to $99,999 the fee for end of show return is $150 per coin. As such, coins valued over $10,000 are in the same pricing category as coins valued at $2,500.

This is the first poll I’ve created. Hopefully I won’t screw it up.

Boosibri

I just don’t think it works this way.

If there is a coin which needs special attention by a specialist grader who isn’t there the coin will be remanded back to the office for an appropriate review.

1Bufffan

It's not the value of the coin that is being graded it is the Quality of the strike and mostly the eye appeal, look closely at the 1933 20$ gold piece and look at her knee, it has so many nicks that any other coin would get knocked down a grade or two but because of the coin itself it got a higher grade.

winesteven

Let’s assume no specialist graders are needed that are not grading at the show.

Thanks.

MFeld

Regardless of where the coins are graded and by whom, sometimes the grading is stricter or more liberal than others. There’s no reliable predictability to it.
Also, keep in mind that when a submitter claims grading is tight or loose, that’s usually from their own perspective, which might or might not be highly qualified.
Lastly, by the time you hear that grading at a show is liberal, it’s probably too late to do anything about it/take advantage of it.

Edited to add: I think it’s pointless to comment on the value of the coins, when submitting them.

P0CKETCHANGE

Frankly, I find it inappropriate to suggest that a submitter may be able to influence which graders review their coins—especially in an effort to tilt the outcome in their favor. If true, this would be quite harmful to the credibility of our hosts.

DelawareDoons

How many graders do you think these major services have, and how many do you think travel to shows?

I'll bet the answer is less than you are thinking.

coinbuf

The dealers that have been around for awhile know who the graders are, think about it.

1madman

Guess I’m slightly confused by the wording of your thoughts. Your declared value per coin is required on every submission form. Isn’t that already notifying pcgs of the value?

If your coin is worth $10,000 in the whole grade holder, and $40,000 in the plus grade holder, declare the value at $10,000 on the form. PCGS will automatically tack on additional grading fees if necessary if your coin jumps huge in price guide value.

And you will definitely want the more experienced grader to look at and grade your coin, which may take several show submissions for that coin to make it to him, but it’ll be worth it on a huge upside swing.

FlyingAl

I'd assume (my opinion) that PCGS or any other service would take a team of 4 graders - three "regular" graders and a finalizer. No matter what, you're going to get the same graders in this scenario.

I'd also assume that PCGS isn't taking new graders to a show.

MFeld

@1madman said:
Guess I’m slightly confused by the wording of your thoughts. Your declared value per coin is required on every submission form. Isn’t that already notifying pcgs of the value?

If your coin is worth $10,000 in the whole grade holder, and $40,000 in the plus grade holder, declare the value at $10,000 on the form. PCGS will automatically tack on additional grading fees if necessary if your coin jumps huge in price guide value.

And you will definitely want the more experienced grader to look at and grade your coin, which may take several show submissions for that coin to make it to him, but it’ll be worth it on a huge upside swing.

It won’t take several show submissions to get the coin in front of the more experienced graders.

winesteven

@1madman said:
Guess I’m slightly confused by the wording of your thoughts. Your declared value per coin is required on every submission form. Isn’t that already notifying pcgs of the value?

If your coin is worth $10,000 in the whole grade holder, and $40,000 in the plus grade holder, declare the value at $10,000 on the form. PCGS will automatically tack on additional grading fees if necessary if your coin jumps huge in price guide value.

And you will definitely want the more experienced grader to look at and grade your coin, which may take several show submissions for that coin to make it to him, but it’ll be worth it on a huge upside swing.

In the OP, my comment about the value range was for the eight coins each in their current grade, with no upgraded values indicated for any coin that might upgrade with a plus.

But your comment regarding graders is very interesting. However, as @FlyingAl (a collector so very wise for his years) indicated above, the whole exercise of this post might very well be moot.

Steve

logger7

The best graders work on the most expensive coins that fall into the Walkthrough and Express tiers according to customer service woman who was at NGC, I assume that is true at PCGS. They will give the best grade they can and know all the ins and outs of the business. They are not going to do something that reflects badly on them or the business. I once heard at the ANA show your best shot for the higher grades were at the start of the show, word gets out and dealers may be more likely to re-submit. I doubt that there is a best time anymore.

johnny9434

I'll take it as they come to me, fwiw

1madman

@logger7 said:
The best graders work on the most expensive coins that fall into the Walkthrough and Express tiers according to customer service woman who was at NGC, I assume that is true at PCGS. They will give the best grade they can and know all the ins and outs of the business. They are not going to do something that reflects badly on them or the business. I once heard at the ANA show your best shot for the higher grades were at the start of the show, word gets out and dealers may be more likely to re-submit. I doubt that there is a best time anymore.

Early NGC grading at the Chicago ANA a few months ago was phenomenal, so you’re on the money with that info.

MFeld

@1madman said:

@logger7 said:
The best graders work on the most expensive coins that fall into the Walkthrough and Express tiers according to customer service woman who was at NGC, I assume that is true at PCGS. They will give the best grade they can and know all the ins and outs of the business. They are not going to do something that reflects badly on them or the business. I once heard at the ANA show your best shot for the higher grades were at the start of the show, word gets out and dealers may be more likely to re-submit. I doubt that there is a best time anymore.

Early NGC grading at the Chicago ANA a few months ago was phenomenal, so you’re on the money with that info.

And at multiple shows over the years, others have said that grading was tight. There is no discernible pattern.

messydesk

Say nothing, get your stuff submitted quickly, and let the next person in line get their coins submitted. You will impress others with your efficiency rather than annoy them while they wait. What you tell the submission takers about the quality of your coins is irrelevant, and who grades them is the purely luck of the draw within the pool of graders available at any given submission level.

vulcanize

Not sure if it is pertinent to your query but the following was my personal experience that included 2021 mint purchases :

Most expensive coins I had submitted for on-site grading at Baltimore got grades of 70 with next day service whereas the batch that I dropped off at the same time and got sent to their HQ for grading took four months to return with everything getting graded as 69 except one.

The rest of the older coins were graded appropriately.

Maywood

The line of thinking here is right up there with the "set-up coin" mythology.

I personally think the best approach for any submission to PCGS/NGC is to learn how to grade to the highest level possible and be competent and confident about what you're submitting. Past that there isn't much you can do.

MasonG

Some people prefer PCGS over NGC because they believe PCGS grades more conservatively. And other people (well, maybe some of them are the same- I don't know) look for ways to improve their chances with upgrades.

Conservative is good, except when you want your coins to upgrade, I guess. It sure can be confusing at times.

jdimmick

I have always heard that for the most part, show grading was tighter on avg. This is the word that I have received from dealers I know. I can't state an opinion myself, becuase I truly dont know, when i drop coins off at show, its usually for submissions going back to HQ.

humanssuck

In my experience, the people who take the submissions at shows are clerks who just process them and send them to the back and have no influence on the process behind the scenes. You could tell them you are the king of spain and it wouldnt change the outcome.

daltex

@MasonG said:
Some people prefer PCGS over NGC because they believe PCGS grades more conservatively. And other people (well, maybe some of them are the same- I don't know) look for ways to improve their chances with upgrades.

Conservative is good, except when you want your coins to upgrade, I guess. It sure can be confusing at times.

No, people want their coins to be graded as generously as possible but everyone else's as conservatively as possible so that everyone else thinks their coins are also conservatively graded.

ricko

Grading is subjective - until the system is changed, there will be variances between TPG's and graders. Collectors can try to game the system, but usually just invest more money in their coins without significant gains. For the most part, complaints from collectors indicate they believe they are better graders than the professionals. Of course, the exceptions (those coins that do upgrade) feed the beliefs. Cheers, RickO