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Invalid cert number

Has anyone ever had this pop up?

The barcode scanned properly but the nfc scan wasn’t working though. Is this something that I should return to the seller?

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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've never attempted to confirm a coin by the method you have chosen, so I cannot share any experiences. However, if it happened to me I would doubt that it would be something I would consider returning a coin for, but you must keep in mind that I typically buy classic coins and I know what to look for.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you type in the number, did it check?

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    If you type in the number, did it check?

    Yes, it checked out. I actually called pcgs a few minutes ago and they had me scan another coin to rule out that the issue wasn’t with my app since they weren’t bringing up any red flags on their end when I gave them the cert number. I sent them pics of the coin as requested and am waiting to hear back from them.

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    So, I heard back from PCGS and they told me that the cert did not come with NFC chip technology. I replied and asked if the coin was accidentally slabbed in a holder with the NFC symbol on the back and the response was that I should ask the seller :/ .

    I then said that I'm not sure the seller would know that answer and that I was simply trying to determine if this was a mistake by PCGS putting it in the wrong type of holder which isn't really a big deal to me or if this is a fake holder and therefore I assume a fake coin.

    PCGS's response to that was to still recommend contacting the seller about the cert and then they provided me a link to more info on the PCGS Gold Shield (note: there is no gold shield on the front of the slab). Did I potentially fall for a fake where there should have been a Gold Shield symbol on the front of the slab and PCGS just doesn't want to come out and make that statement?

    Thanks everyone for the input so far.


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    TomBTomB Posts: 20,730 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin and the slab look good. My guess is that this is in the PCGS Generation 6.1 holder used from October, 2020 to present and that the coin was shipped out without a properly functioning NFC chip within the holder.

    https://www.pcgs.com/holdermuseum/Gen6.1

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @TomB thanks! That makes me feel a lot better. Once again, I appreciate the collective wealth of knowledge that exists here with the forum members. I think it's odd that PCGS wouldn't have provided this information.

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    divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,527 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2022 5:40PM

    @jeffas1974

    I scanned the coin twice with my iPhone and it seems to come up fine for me.

    Donato

    Edited for grammar.

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
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    Stingray63Stingray63 Posts: 299 ✭✭✭

    I've seen a few holdered that way. This is not mine but adding an image for comparison if it helps any.

    Pocket Change Inspector

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    For my future knowledge, if the scan of the barcode on the slab brings up the cert is that as good of a check as anything else that could be done? The invalid NFC is what threw me off.

    Thanks!

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    VasantiVasanti Posts: 448 ✭✭✭✭

    I’ve had several Eagles out of a population of several hundred that either failed to read the NFC or have popped up as another coin when the NFC was read. All genuine from reputable dealers (not Ebay). When I enter the number manually, everything is fine.

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2022 5:57PM

    @jeffas1974 said:
    So, I heard back from PCGS and they told me that the cert did not come with NFC chip technology. [...]

    Despite the holder markings, the 'cert verification' does NOT indicate NFC.

    Source: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/42140042

    In short, it is missing the following 'line':

    @jeffas1974 said:
    [...] and then they provided me a link to more info on the PCGS Gold Shield (note: there is no gold shield on the front of the slab). Did I potentially fall for a fake where there should have been a Gold Shield symbol on the front of the slab and PCGS just doesn't want to come out and make that statement? [...]

    The 'cert verification' does NOT indicate a "Gold Shield" holder type, like the following one does:

    The current PCGS holder comes in two versions:
    ~ standard (GEN 6.1);
    ~ "Gold Shield" (GEN 6.1S)

    IOW, the lack of a "Gold Shield" on the front of the label is not automatically indicative of a counterfeit.

    Edited for a typo.

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    For my future knowledge, if the scan of the barcode on the slab brings up the cert is that as good of a check as anything else that could be done? The invalid NFC is what threw me off.

    Thanks!

    The NFC verification is supposed to be "the most secure anti-counterfeiting technology available in our market."


    Source: https://www.pcgs.com/security

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    For my future knowledge, if the scan of the barcode on the slab brings up the cert is that as good of a check as anything else that could be done? The invalid NFC is what threw me off.

    Thanks!

    Unfortunately there are fake slabs that have a good cert number correct for the coin and a readable bar code. Some fake slabs and maybe most, I don't know, do not have a correct bar code but some do.

    This slab should confuse you because it is one that has the marking indicating it has an NFC (see link above from TomB). As MetroD indicated the cert page does not have the security line NFC. So the slab and the cert page do not agree with each other. This is a pcgs problem/error. In my opinion the response that the pcgs rep gave you is a bad one. They should have asked for a photo and done more to resolve the discrepancy.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just did a quick search, and it appears that this specific coin was recently sold (i.e., OCT-2022). The seller is well known, and reputable.

    Assuming you were the buyer in this recent transaction, you might want to follow the PCGS advice, and contact the seller. They might be willing to get involved, and facilitate issue resolution (e.g., confirm 'coin/holder' authenticity, arrange for a functioning NFC chip, etc.).

    Do not know what you plan to do with the coin. Regardless, I humbly suggest that you attempt address these issues. In short, the discrepancies you have encountered could potentially impact your ability to sell this coin in the future.

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @MetroD I did indeed buy the coin last week and I agree that the seller is reputable. The president of the co was courteous enough to respond first thing this morning assuring me that the coin and holder were real. He also said that their belief was that the coin was incorrectly slabbed with the NFC logo.

    Assuming that the seller was unaware that this issue existed prior to me bringing it to their attention I don't feel that they have any obligation on this matter. I on the other hand, definitely feel the need to disclose this if I decide to sell the coin down the road. I think that I'll try contacting PCGS one more time to see if they would be willing to reholder the coin on their dime to prevent any issues in a future sale. Hopefully they won't tell me to pound sand.

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    I think that I'll try contacting PCGS one more time to see if they would be willing to reholder the coin on their dime to >prevent any issues in a future sale. Hopefully they won't tell me to pound sand.

    Sometimes the Forum moderators can assist with this. If you wanted to you could try contacting them via the inbox message (PM). PCGS_Moderator or HeatherBoyd

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I recommend you pursue resolution to the issue. This will prevent problems in the future, should you decide to sell the coin. Cheers, RickO

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    CoinHunter4CoinHunter4 Posts: 311 ✭✭✭✭

    If you hold the slab up to the light you should be able to see if it has the NFC chip...

    Young Numismatist. Over 20 successful transactions including happy BST transactions with @CoinHoarder, @Namvet69, @Bruce7789, @TeacherCollector, @JWP, @CuKevin, @CoinsExplorer, @greencopper, @PapiNE and @privatecoin

    "Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing" -Benjamin Franklin

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,690 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the NFC chip have an invalid cert number, chances are it could be read and something went wrong with the encoding of the URL for the cert in question. If the cert number is encoded and decoded by a key pair, it'll have to be replaced. If the encoded cert is kept in a database and decoded by database lookup, the database entry can be fixed and then the NFC verification work.

    Of course, now I see Heather has posted, so it'll be taken care of regardless of how they implemented it.

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    ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,324 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have had this happen. They were able to fix it no problem, just like they did yours.

    Collector, occasional seller

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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    If you type in the number, did it check?

    Yes, it checked out. I actually called pcgs a few minutes ago and they had me scan another coin to rule out that the issue wasn’t with my app since they weren’t bringing up any red flags on their end when I gave them the cert number. I sent them pics of the coin as requested and am waiting to hear back from them.

    Thought NFC only worked when the slab has the gold shield. The rest you read like a QRF code.

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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:
    After getting in touch with Heather as suggested by lilolme, another PCGS rep contacted me and I resent pics of the coin/slab to them. Today they said that their IT dept had activated the NFC chip and asked me to try seeing if the NFC reader pulled up the cert. I just now scanned it and everything looks good.

    Thanks everyone for helping me get this resolved!
    (edited for grammar)

    Not possible to activate the coins NFC chip from their office. Possible to correct the system on their side though.

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    jeffas1974jeffas1974 Posts: 310 ✭✭✭

    @johnny010 said:

    @jeffas1974 said:
    After getting in touch with Heather as suggested by lilolme, another PCGS rep contacted me and I resent pics of the coin/slab to them. Today they said that their IT dept had activated the NFC chip and asked me to try seeing if the NFC reader pulled up the cert. I just now scanned it and everything looks good.

    Thanks everyone for helping me get this resolved!
    (edited for grammar)

    Not possible to activate the coins NFC chip from their office. Possible to correct the system on their side though.

    Ah ok. The rep just said that the NFC had been "activated" which I guess to your point was that it was taken care of on their end. My biggest takeaway from this experience was that it definitely matters who you talk to. The first two reps that I spoke with just told me to contact the seller.

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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jeffas1974 said:

    @johnny010 said:

    @jeffas1974 said:
    After getting in touch with Heather as suggested by lilolme, another PCGS rep contacted me and I resent pics of the coin/slab to them. Today they said that their IT dept had activated the NFC chip and asked me to try seeing if the NFC reader pulled up the cert. I just now scanned it and everything looks good.

    Thanks everyone for helping me get this resolved!
    (edited for grammar)

    Not possible to activate the coins NFC chip from their office. Possible to correct the system on their side though.

    Ah ok. The rep just said that the NFC had been "activated" which I guess to your point was that it was taken care of on their end. My biggest takeaway from this experience was that it definitely matters who you talk to. The first two reps that I spoke with just told me to contact the seller.

    100 agree

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2022 4:30PM

    @johnny010 said:

    Thought NFC only worked when the slab has the gold shield. The rest you read like a QRF code.

    The current generation of PCGS holders, GEN 6.1 (standard) and GEN 6.1S (Gold Shield), both contain NFC chips.

    "As of October 2020, NFC technology will be included in all PCGS coin and banknote holders at no additional cost."
    Source: https://www.pcgs.com/security

    Edited to Add:
    PCGS did add NFC chips exclusively to Gold Shield holders in early 2020, as part of the launch of the technology.

    "Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) has announced that it will begin embedding Near Field Communication (NFC) technology in all its encapsulated coins, medals, tokens, and banknotes in October 2020. This revolutionary advancement launches after an initial limited rollout earlier this year with coins graded in PCGS Gold Shield holders to test compatibility and user response, both of which were overwhelmingly positive."
    Source: https://www.pcgs.com/news/groundbreaking-nfc-technology-included-in-all-holders

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MetroD said:

    @jeffas1974 said:
    So, I heard back from PCGS and they told me that the cert did not come with NFC chip technology. [...]

    Despite the holder markings, the 'cert verification' does NOT indicate NFC.

    Source: https://www.pcgs.com/cert/42140042

    In short, it is missing the following 'line':

    @jeffas1974 said:
    [...] and then they provided me a link to more info on the PCGS Gold Shield (note: there is no gold shield on the front of the slab). Did I potentially fall for a fake where there should have been a Gold Shield symbol on the front of the slab and PCGS just doesn't want to come out and make that statement? [...]

    The 'cert verification' does NOT indicate a "Gold Shield" holder type, like the following one does:

    The current PCGS holder comes in two versions:
    ~ standard (GEN 6.1);
    ~ "Gold Shield" (GEN 6.1S)

    IOW, the lack of a "Gold Shield" on the front of the label is not automatically indicative of a counterfeit.

    Edited for a typo.

    And after being activated, it does show the security line. Automatic or did they fix/add the line manually. Don't know but there now.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    MetroDMetroD Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @lilolme said:

    And after being activated, it does show the security line. Automatic or did they fix/add the line manually. Don't know but there now.

    I am glad this worked out for the OP.

    Excellent suggestion about getting Heather involved. It certainly got results.

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    taciturntaciturn Posts: 24 ✭✭
    edited November 25, 2022 8:57PM

    @HeatherBoyd said:
    Hello Jeff, I am sorry to hear your NFC tag is not operating properly. I have forwarded your message and this post to our Director of Customer Care, you should be hearing some someone shortly.

    Heather

    Hello Heather,

    I have the same problem that the NFC is showing "Invalid Cert Number" for a 2022 modern commemorative gold coin which I bought from a well known big dealer. May I ask who I should contact to solve the problem? Thanks a lot!

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