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50 basis points is a Pivot................SO HOW DO YOU VIEW A PAUSE ???

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  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:
    White House actually reached out to Steven Van Metre on YouTube to defend jobs reporting BLS is rechecking and checking again before it releases CPI . Dec . Nov. inflation numbers being vetted , adjusted , scrutinized. The Fed is considering, conjecture so far, a rate cut. Apparently savings depletion and increased credit card use is lagging the highest levels of compilation. Best to Google Van Metre on YouTube watch entire video (15min)

    There have been issues with the seasonal adjustment factors for DECADES. Throw in Covid and the post-Covid demographic retirement issues and I'm not surprised we could have had a major outlier like the January NFP.

    Let's see if it continues in February and March.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Fed is so far behind the curve...........................

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2023 10:17PM

    @jmski52 said:
    The Fed is so far behind the curve...........................

    The markets disagree -- well, at least the stock market. The bond market this week seemed to shift into 2nd gear.

    Keep an eye on the 10-year and the 4% level as well as the 2-year at about 4.85%.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 20, 2023 4:46PM

    @cohodk said:
    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    are they keeping up with cost of living or are you netting more each month. LOL

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:
    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    are they keeping up with cost of living or are you netting more each month. LOL

    Making more in interest than expenses increased.

    Yup. Loving the higher rates!!!

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fed will drop back 50 basis points next week or Powell resigns. Fear of bank runs on horizon SVB looms large

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2023 3:58PM

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:
    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    are they keeping up with cost of living or are you netting more each month. LOL

    Making more in interest than expenses increased.

    Yup. Loving the higher rates!!!

    are the higher rates keeping up with inflation or are you among the many whom don't consider net gain from interest bearing accounts. i personally am not loving a 3.5% interest bearing account when real inflation is above 10%. guess i need your magical calculator, mine tells me i have a net loss at end of the year. reality is a bitch once you learn to face it. that's why some choose the head in the sand approach

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 1:12AM

    Why not change the Banks reserve ratios? Could it be this solution cuts into the Banks profits too much. The Fed must cut interest rates or Powell should pull a rabbit out of his hat.

    SVB looms large over the economy.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:
    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    are they keeping up with cost of living or are you netting more each month. LOL

    Making more in interest than expenses increased.

    Yup. Loving the higher rates!!!

    are the higher rates keeping up with inflation or are you among the many whom don't consider net gain from interest bearing accounts. i personally am not loving a 3.5% interest bearing account when real inflation is above 10%. guess i need your magical calculator, mine tells me i have a net loss at end of the year. reality is a bitch once you learn to face it. that's why some choose the head in the sand approach

    Do your expenses exceed the value of your interest bearing accounts?

    IE...if your annual expenses are 100k per year, (and I'll use your numbers), then your expenses increased by 10k. And if you had 300k in interest bearing accounts then you earned 10.5k. In most realities, 10.5 is greater than 10.

    Get a new calculator, or learn to use the one you have.

    BTW--yup, facing reality is a bee'ach. Lol

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:
    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    are they keeping up with cost of living or are you netting more each month. LOL

    Making more in interest than expenses increased.

    Yup. Loving the higher rates!!!

    are the higher rates keeping up with inflation or are you among the many whom don't consider net gain from interest bearing accounts. i personally am not loving a 3.5% interest bearing account when real inflation is above 10%. guess i need your magical calculator, mine tells me i have a net loss at end of the year. reality is a bitch once you learn to face it. that's why some choose the head in the sand approach

    Do your expenses exceed the value of your interest bearing accounts?

    IE...if your annual expenses are 100k per year, (and I'll use your numbers), then your expenses increased by 10k. And if you had 300k in interest bearing accounts then you earned 10.5k. In most realities, 10.5 is greater than 10.

    Get a new calculator, or learn to use the one you have.

    BTW--yup, facing reality is a bee'ach. Lol

    you completely ovrtlooked (avoided?) the point that when the iflation rate exceeds the interest rate earned your net gain will always be less than zero. i personally do not have cause to celebtate when i lose money. a rising interest rate is meaningless in the face of an inflation rate that rises faster. the best way to reward savers is to remove the destructive affect of inflation that devalues the money they have put aside for future spending.

    there's a good reason why inllation is referred to as a "hiddrn tax" - most savers, like you, celebrate their 3.5% interest earned and fail to that see their account balance will buy less over time.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • RobMRobM Posts: 551 ✭✭✭

    Bad math, bad assumptions. After year one, expenses are $110K. How do you fund that $10K the following year? You fund it from your savings ($310.5K - $10K =$300.5K), lol. So after year 2 and still earning 3.5%, your savings balance is $311K, and now your expenses are $121K, so savings balance falls to $290K to make up the difference. After year 3 your expenses are $133K, so taking the amount over $100K from your savings, your account balance has fallen to around $277K. That is the reality of cohodk's example. Even if you cut spending or had increased earnings (wages, ss, etc.) and didn't touch your $300K savings and the balance rose to ~$344K over 3 years, that $300 vacation home you were going to buy with cash is now $400K so you would have lost $56K in purchasing power.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2023 7:29AM

    future value of money is a consideration that should not be overlooked

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:
    Lovin' the higher yields!!

    are they keeping up with cost of living or are you netting more each month. LOL

    Making more in interest than expenses increased.

    Yup. Loving the higher rates!!!

    are the higher rates keeping up with inflation or are you among the many whom don't consider net gain from interest bearing accounts. i personally am not loving a 3.5% interest bearing account when real inflation is above 10%. guess i need your magical calculator, mine tells me i have a net loss at end of the year. reality is a bitch once you learn to face it. that's why some choose the head in the sand approach

    Do your expenses exceed the value of your interest bearing accounts?

    IE...if your annual expenses are 100k per year, (and I'll use your numbers), then your expenses increased by 10k. And if you had 300k in interest bearing accounts then you earned 10.5k. In most realities, 10.5 is greater than 10.

    Get a new calculator, or learn to use the one you have.

    BTW--yup, facing reality is a bee'ach. Lol

    you completely ovrtlooked (avoided?) the point that when the iflation rate exceeds the interest rate earned your net gain will always be less than zero. i personally do not have cause to celebtate when i lose money. a rising interest rate is meaningless in the face of an inflation rate that rises faster. the best way to reward savers is to remove the destructive affect of inflation

    there's a good reason why inllation is referred to as a "hiddrn tax" - most savers, like you, celebrate their 3.5% interest earned and fail to that see their account balance will buy less over time.

    We all get the effects of inflation. I'm simply pointing out that someone with $50k in savings can now earn over $200 per month in interest. That covers a lot of additional expense due to inflation. And someone with $500k now earns over $2000 per month, which more than covers the additional expense.

    All is not dire. Embrace the opportunities.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2023 11:34AM

    @Soldi said:
    Fed will drop back 50 basis points next week or Powell resigns. Fear of bank runs on horizon SVB looms large

    You think they will CUT rates ?

    Er.....no. :)

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Trimmed my original thoughts afraid 😨 I'm too political

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, you sure don’t want “someone” to report you for pointing out the obvious.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    See what more money into the system does? Seems that the Dow responds to the bail out of the SVB failure.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    See what pulling money out of questionable banks does? Gold up $75 in 3 days. ;)

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I added to my bullion stack 10 days ago. I thought I was foolish paying these prices.

    Be careful as there are sharps out there looking to short these banking stocks, huge. Apparently, they think the QE has a lot of different banks in a hold to maturity position untenable to recent Fed increases. Please excuse the vague analysis as politics gets me thrown in jail and I've only been skimming articles in the news.

    Fed's considering 0% to .25 % increase.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:
    For next ten business days silver drifts lower then bang zoom.... Saw tooth to the atmosphere.

    @Exbrit said:
    What?

    At least for today. I'm Right !!!!

  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No way 50
    Probably 25
    Hope for 0
    No way pivot

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ctf_error_coins said:
    No way 50
    Probably 25
    Hope for 0
    No way pivot

    According to my thread title all those numbers are a pivot

  • psuman08psuman08 Posts: 328 ✭✭✭✭

    I would not hope for 0. If you get that and the next inflation numbers come out hot, Then what? 25 seems like the only move they have.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @psuman08 said:
    I would not hope for 0. If you get that and the next inflation numbers come out hot, Then what? 25 seems like the only move they have.

    I don't know. IDK and neither does anyone else. I think J Powell in consideration of all the pressure on him is NOT going to announce anything on the 22nd. I think he'll wait.
    He's getting a lot of undue pressure PUT ON HIM by powers in political arenas. And that is an opinion.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Stocks up. Depositors given assurances. By the time the Fed meets again the dust will have settled and Powell and the Fed will still raise .25 to show they are still working on inflation. The data shows 5-6% inflation, not 2%. It is their QT program that I wonder about.

    The biggest problem with SVB was electronic banking, combined with Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, Robinhood, and other social media which scared the big depositors into withdrawing funds with the push of a button and $42 billion was removed faster than ever even imagined.

    The bank had no chance of survival with that kind of mob flash attack. Similar to what has happened to some stores with social media enhanced shoplifting.

  • WingsruleWingsrule Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭✭

    I would rather get 5% in a short term T-bill than 0.01-0.03% in a savings account. It may not fully offset price hikes but it is better than sitting there hoping.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2023 2:43PM

    why is it so hard to call it what it is?

    Canary in a coal mine.

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wingsrule said:
    I would rather get 5% in a short term T-bill than 0.01-0.03% in a savings account. It may not fully offset price hikes but it is better than sitting there hoping.

    And that is what SVB did and they locked up billions of dollars In Treasuries. I can't go on for a half hour of spewing research on what they did and why it went wrong. (many more banks are in trouble and not for the same thing)

    Your investment is one of astute timing and intelligence. Not all the rest of the population in this USA has the income nor the acumen to imitate this move.

    So, the question is what kind of box is the FED in that it is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a big difference in buying 6 mo to 18 mo. T-bills to lock in nearly 5% like I did the past few months to move out of basically no interest bank interest money, and to avoid stocks, vs buying 10-30 year bonds at 2-3% like SVB bank did to loan out other funds to questionable tech companies.

    The Fed said they would raise short term rates, and maybe more importantly, sell the bonds they own as QT which almost guarantees that SVB would lose money holding their long-term bonds. Their management was inept, but the internet fast withdrawals of the remaining cash depositors was unprecedented.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2023 3:49PM

    Yes indeed there is; you're not required to, ratios, Mark to Market, book a loss ,etc the withdraw was due to fed funds rates . Look I can't do this for 20 paragraphs,

    Then we go swaps. Then we talk repos . Then you realize your not a bank.

    The thread point is what constitutes a pivot. Now???

    50 basis when I started it.
    25 basis points for sure
    0 is Holy Cow city!

    No matter what the citizens of the USA will suffer from Inflation.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:

    No matter what the citizens of the USA will suffer from Inflation.

    ya gotta admit they do a good job of making most of us think we're not suffering. We don't even see the water reaching a boil. LOL

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No suffering here in The Commonwealth. Inflation is much lower than most of the world not to mention our wages have increased substantially. Lifes Good. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2023 6:39AM

    Credit Suisse on the ropes.

    Fed move next week ??

    Zero , 0. , zero fight inflation from the quagmire

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2023 11:57AM

    The market actually sets the real interest rates, not the Fed. Yes, the Fed usually does follow the market. The market has bought so many bonds in this panic scenario, the interest rates on 2 years have dropped from 5% to 4%.

    So, the Fed can still raise .25 to claim they are fighting inflation, LOL, and it really does not matter because they only control short term rates, not long rates.

    Buy gold and silver on dips, not stocks and bonds now. A lot of fear money is headed their way.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,845 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The market has bought so many bonds in this panic scenario, the interest rates on 2 years have dropped from 5% to 4%.

    So, the Fed can still raise .25 to claim they are fighting inflation, LOL, and it really does not matter because they only control short term rates, not long rates.

    Buy gold and silver on dips, not stocks and bonds now. A lot of fear money is headed their way.

    I tend to believe that the Fed is the entity buying bonds and large cap stocks via their trading desk in a back door attempt to support the markets. Who else would be buying bonds now when there's already a liquidity crisis? Not me.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    Who else would be buying bonds now when there's already a liquidity crisis? Not me.

    Many people think 5+% for 12 months or less is a good deal.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2023 7:13PM

    @cohodk said:

    @jmski52 said:
    Who else would be buying bonds now when there's already a liquidity crisis? Not me.

    Many people think 5+% for 12 months or less is a good deal.

    They're a great deal. The all knowing , all seeing, sooth sayer on loan from above Soldi says; RATE CUTS ARE ON THE TABLE.

    IT IS HERE even short terms are inverting, Ts are 3.70 and dropping, money deflation. The FED will now cut rates. Lets not lose the publics confidence; all banks are connected, don't tell anyone. It's almost 2008

    We can't grow anymore debt this year 2008, but we will support a deflating currency.

    2008 is a metaphor.

    Cuts when? IDK, but 0 for sure this month.

    Why it's the only tool ? IDK
    , but the FED will cut, cut, cut. Soldi March 2023

  • GoldFinger1969GoldFinger1969 Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ECB action today still expected to be 50 bp. But Credit Suisse situation complicates things.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ms Lagarde @ 500, 000 euro per year is going to blow up Credit Suisse with the March 50 basis point increase.

    ECB is running 12 to 15 % inflation. So even though you get a raise serving up a Royale with cheese the ECB bankrrs are in a big fix, but they stress there are options other than rates

    IDK

  • psuman08psuman08 Posts: 328 ✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:

    Cuts when? IDK, but 0 for sure this month.

    I'll stick with my 25bp prediction. Zero rate increase backs them into a corner if inflation numbers are not positive. I think they finally realize that short term hits are preferable to long term inflation issues.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2023 11:27AM

    In short term FED policy making, bank run concerns trump inflation concerns. Banks with asset losses will be of little concern once the elephant (derivatives) enters the room.

    Derivatives? Isn't that a 2008 word?

    "Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The banks just borrowed $150 billion last couple days from the Fed's liquidity backstop. I sold several 1-3 yr. bonds in my Roth as they were way up the past two days, already above their final maturity over 100 par. If I didn't sell and held them to maturity, I would lose money. LOL

    Magic bank bailout that we the taxpayers will pay for in fees, inflation, etc. Of course, stocks like free or low-cost debt money so up they went.

    The Fed will not cut. This is a mirage. They used their money "printing" liquidity backstop. If anything, they should sell some more of their QT bonds now that prices are up, since they got the masses to buy the yield dip. Interest rates are not their only game.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Highly inflationary is the way to describe the Fed moves

    Sell bonds , Sell Tresuries pull money from system. Raise interest rates. Fed buys back old tresuries via loans to banks pays full face value.

    Yes, buys them back, not at depressed market value, but loans at the maturity rate. Circumventing the whole reason for the treasries , bonds etc.

    Smacks of MMT <<>>

    What's to stop the banks from just keeping on and not paying back the loans.
    NOTHING they don't want the instrument in the first place as they think the Feds tactics, a rate rise, didn't consider their position.

    It is hugely inflationary it creates a circle of no point of beginning or end. Perpetual money motion.

    Fed can raise rates and the markets respond and inflation is fueled and nobody has the time to consider what if anything can be done.

    Goes to show you how much information is out there in 2023, that a classic bank run can occur. SVB is a big regional bank.

    MMT type economics won't help, but make it worse.

    Buy Gold any pure Gold.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone got a close on Copper, Gold and Silver need accurate numbers

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2023 12:58PM

    @Soldi said:
    Anyone got a close on Copper, Gold and Silver need accurate numbers

    Coppers slightly green YTD. The Au needs to take out the OJ. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fed moving towards QE. at the latest cuts by June, only 3 months away.

    Bailouts for banks? Triggered bond crisis in Europe 5% of all bonds being written off. Biggest ever.

    Buy Gold and then buy Gold

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Soldi said:
    Triggered bond crisis in Europe 5% of all bonds being written off.

    Can you please expoumd on this?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • SoldiSoldi Posts: 2,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 4:17PM

    AT1 bonds issued in place of reaching out for funding via stock offerings. Seemingly very safe are now being rendered next to zero value when a bank is absorbed. The 5% number was derived from the recent Credit Suisse debalacal, I didn't find for it, repeated it, although the sources are solid.

    My opinions are what I write and as such make up part of my reasoning for precious metals accumulation.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 19,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2023 4:30PM

    @Soldi said:
    AT1 bonds issued in place of reaching out for funding via stock offerings. Seemingly very safe are now being rendered next to zero value when a bank is absorbed. The 5% number was derived from the recent Credit Suisse debalacal, I didn't find for it, repeated it, although the sources are solid.

    My opinions are what I write and as such make up part of my reasoning for precious metals accumulation.

    No problem having an opinion, but opinions based on fact will carry more weight both for yourself and others. Your sources are not solid and you would probably best be served to find other sources. Very little--bordering on nothing--of your source info is accurate.

    How much is 5% of all bonds in Europe?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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