Which Proof Walker would you keep?
P0CKETCHANGE
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Similar to my Shield Nickel dilemma, I’ve also ended up with a pair of WLH Proofs, and only need to keep one of them for my set.
If you were making the call based on these two photos, which would you keep or get rid of? Again, I realize that TrueViews are imperfect information (especially for proofs), but they’re the only photos I have currently. Both are CAC’d in this case.
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1
Comments
Top. I can’t stand haze, it’s a major drawback.
I vote #1.
The one with less haze.
Top...same reason with the haze
K
I vote for #1. Some people find haze sexy, but too much of it is a problem.
Totally the first one, I also do not like haze.
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1. I don't like haze. This seems to be a major negative.
fwiw, the top coin can have haze as well. with over-exposed images, it kinda disappears.
the haze on the bottom coin, when it has brown around the edges, often times has color/rainbow toning to accompany it. i THINK that is not the situation here although it does kinda scream original but perhaps detracting to some?
it looks like the same coin to me, especially with the cert numbers removed.
From the images above, the top one.
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They're the same coin.
I was typing up a long winded explanation to explain why they looked so similar until (I was saying I thought they might be the same coin) when I decided to double check. Sure enough, spots appear in exactly the same areas on the coins.
The dead giveaway is the detail deterioration of the coins. I looked at these two images (assuming they were different coins, they're not) and could say for certain that they were from the same die pair, within a few hundred coins of one another. This would be exceeding rare to happen by chance, so I dug a little deeper. I also knew the haze on the first one was almost the exact same to the bottom, based on my experience photographing these proofs.
Sure enough, there was some trickery here.
Coin Photographer.
It definitely has a similar reverse strike...
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I’m not completely convinced it’s the same coin. The spots or markers below the F in OF and under STATES on the reverse are different. There are a few others in other areas that are different also. Maybe lighting or the way the coin is rotated in relation to the lights that make the difference or they may be different coins.
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Yes same coin I believe. Are they Pf 68 ? Nearly all 41s are missing the designer initials.
From the photos, the top one. If in hand they look the same, probably neither. I am not a fan of hazy Walkers.
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the first one by far
Based on the TruViews, the first one gets my vote. Cheers, RickO
They are the same coin. Listen to @FlyingAl and @LanceNewmanOCC !!
PS, I have a couple proof Walkers just like the above example, and in direct light they look like fully brilliant coins....Then, when I look at the Trueviews, they look dark and hazy. They are very tricky coins! They change like a chameleon!
I like #2 for it's originality. Number #1 looks dipped out.
Surface preservation and strike are about equal.
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My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
top
Yeah, same coin. Spot on rim above E in AMERICA, spot right of the right 1 in the date.
I don't care for haze and I prefer a proof that was struck from dies that didn't the daylights polished out of them. I'd sell it and buy one I liked better.
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Well done @LanceNewmanOCC with the initial hunch, and @FlyingAl for the comprehensive analysis…
Figured this would make for a fun experiment since I have two very different TrueViews for the same coin. Goes to show you how big a difference photography can make. The coin is PR67 CAC.
I find it incredible that almost 100% of commenters who made a choice chose the top brilliant/mirrored version. It’s tough to get consensus like that ‘round these parts. I strongly prefer the photo that emphasizes the original haze, and I love this era of proofs with the iridescent blue character. Apparently I’m alone! Now I know to lowball these when they come up for sale
Kudos to all who guessed!
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the cleaned one
I was comparing them by spots and there is a spot between the LL in dollar and it is completely gone in the "clean" pic. Amazing what photography can do.
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yaya baby. i'll pm my address for my prize!
When I see a write-up like what @FlyingAl produced above, it makes me realize how little I know about coins! Let's hear it for this YN! He's pretty darn impressive!
I would keep the top coin.
@FlyingAl said: In 1940, there were 11,279 proof half dollars reported minted..................
--- Nice write-up/analysis by @FlyingAl except that the coin he's researched is 1940 and the OP coin is dated 1941!! I don't know what that means but it's sort of funny.
I just noticed this too! I promise I have a good reason
. I purchased a 1940 proof set today, so I was doing comps and research on all things 1940, so when I came back to this post my mind was dead set on 1940. I'm fixing it now 
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Coin Photographer.
If they were different coins, I would choose the second one from the photo. After reading @LanceNewmanOCC 's hypothesis about them being the same coin, I looked and noticed the fingerprint in the obverse field on both of the coins. @FlyingAl that was an incredible read.
Young Numismatist
Why do the 2 different trueviews look so different? I would think their photography and lighting setup would be fairly consistent.
@AdamL said: Why do the 2 different trueviews look so different? I would think their photography and lighting setup would be fairly consistent.
A request can be made for different pictures to suit the submitter. An example would be to show the contrast on a Proof coin or to have the images show the surfaces better absent the contrast.
Thanks. Didn't know that.
Old comment went poof on editing, hate it when that happens. Here's the corrected write up.
All right, let’s try this again! In 1941, there were 15,412 proof halves reported as minted, though 19,922 planchets were struck (some destroyed for assay and others failed to meet quality standards). Of these, about 8,000 likely still survive. There were 15 obverse dies and 4 reverse dies used based on Roger Burdette's book United States Proof Coins 1936-1942 (I will use info from this book as it relates to the dies).
There were four possible die pairs that could have been used to strike this coin, each reverse being paired with a different obverse. I will be focusing on the one die pair that most likely produced this coin, (obv 47 rev 7). This die is the one where the reverse has a notation of “die worn, letters” in the die book. All other die pairings do not mention weak inscriptions, and since this coin exhibits particularly weak inscriptions I find it most likely that this coin came from reverse die 7. Other dies were cracked (die 6) or state simply “worn”( die 8), which I believe refers to the main devices. The fourth reverse die, die 10, was used late December and was in usable condition when the year ended. Since this coin appears to be struck from a terminal die (where it would be condemned for weak lettering), we will refer to die 7’s last use date, when the die was condemned for weak lettering on November 24th after striking 800 coins in a pair with obverse die 47.
Using this information, we can deduce that roughly 321 of the coins from this die still exist (8,000 remain / 19,922 struck * 800 from dies). Of these, most of them survive in PR64/65 condition, with roughly 7.8% estimated in PR67 based on pop reports. That narrows it down to 25 coins in 67 from this die pair and die state still existing. To randomly select one in 67 from this die pair from the 8,000 surviving coins would be a 0.3% chance, to do it twice would be a 0.0009% chance. In other words, statistically unlikely. To have them look so similar? Even lower chances.
I don't think it's even probable to have these coins be different coins. If they are, that's a rare set and I'd probably keep them both for the novelty of it. But to those who doubt, the spot on the rim above AMERICA is a dead match, the fingerprint like pattern in the right obverse field is a dead match, the spot next to the date is a dead match, the spot under the Y in LIBERTY is a dead match, and the spot next to the R in LIBERTY is a dead match (it shows bright white in the top picture, but dark in the second).
On the bright side, the OP now likely knows his/her coin was struck on the 24th of November, 1941. This isn't certain (I'm going off of a notation in a die book where most dies simply state "die worn, letters"), but it's a good chance.
Coin Photographer.
If accurate, this was the Monday before Thanksgiving, and just a couple weeks before the US entered WWII. Imagine what things would have felt like then.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Proof coins are like a chameleon. They change their appearance depending on various factors.
I have this 1941 PF65 Walker and like the multi colored toning on it. In hand under good lighting the colors shown in the Trueview photo are much more vibrant and bold.
I also have this 1940 PF67 Walker. The Trueview photo of this coin shows blue haze on it. I looked at that coin today and in hand the coin does not exhibit the haze in most lighting angles. You have to rotate the coin until the haze on the coin suddenly appears.
I'm fairly confident (90% sure), that this is the day the coin was struck. I'm going to do a quick Coinfacts search for a die with a heavily degraded eagle on the reverse, and if I find one I will be 99% sure, provided I don't find a later die state for the date.
Coin Photographer.
Changing the lighting changes the appearance of a coin? Who knew?
The difference is so dramatic that I would have guessed that the coin was conserved....
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
@P0CKETCHANGE,
We got lucky! I found a coin with reverse die 8 (it was paired with a new obverse, so it sticks out), and can confirm that it is a different die than your coin. I also confirmed your coin is from a terminal reverse die.
While some may disagree, I find this fairly conclusive, and see no other possibility than your coin being struck on November 24th.
Coin Photographer.
Me?
I like #1
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That’s fascinating! I never would have thought it’d be possible to narrow down minting to a single day in history.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
For the record, I saw they were the same coin right away because my eyes were drawn to what looked to me to be a latent partial fingerprint directly above the I in the word IN on the obverse. Those 3 parallel lines is what I’m referring to that are easy to see in both pictures
Mr_Spud
Lol I was going to say, "These pics are an apples to oranges comparison and I'd want identically styled shots to make a call. For all I can tell, it's the same coin."
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The fingerprint gives it away...
I don't mind the haze at all though, I kinda like it
Amazing how much difference there can be in just 2 photographs!
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This would have been a great GTG, imagine the disparate opinions until flying al and Lancenewman wudda killed the party lol
great thread, very cool keeper.
It would help if they were both imaged up the same way. You have direct light on one and not on the other. Because of that problem I cannot muster a guess. Both look nice.
that was what i saw first and when i saw the certs gone, that locked it in for me. (this time)
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I'm actually with you. I kinda like the photography effect on the second one. This just goes to demonstrate how difficult it can be to photograph some coins 'well'...and defining 'well' can be just as difficult.
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Going with the top one based on the photos. In hand could possibly give a different answer.
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