What is the deal with Hannes Tulving Holders?

goldrealmoney79

Was this an actual grading company or more of a dealer who instead of flips used slabs instead?
See here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/155179761853?

MFeld

Hanes Tulving was a dealer, who assigned grades to the coins he sold. I saw a lot of them - in particular, during the few years prior to joining NGC in 1998. I was working for Mark Salzberg at the time and we worked in an office in the building where Hannes conducted his business.
Most of the coins I saw were conservatively graded - even for that time - but the selling prices were quite high. Hannes offered a guarantee to buy back his coins at the stated grade and if I remember correctly, he put out a monthly(?) price list.

rip_f

@MFeld said:
Most of the coins I saw were conservatively graded - even for that time - but the selling prices were quite high.

.
His coin prices might have been high, but he sold a lot of very reasonably priced gold bullion around Y2K. Then his ads all disappeared - retired?

lilolme

@rip_f said:

@MFeld said:
Most of the coins I saw were conservatively graded - even for that time - but the selling prices were quite high.

.
His coin prices might have been high, but he sold a lot of very reasonably priced gold bullion around Y2K. Then his ads all disappeared - retired?

Do an internet search on Hanes Tulving and the answer should show up.

ricko

I do not recall seeing any of those slabs at shows. Cheers, RickO

BStrauss3

They come up periodically at shows and fleaBay. They're not sealed other than a paper label glued over the opening.

Search: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Hannes+tulving

He also did the heat-sealed flip bit:

davewesen

In the late 80's and early 90's the FTC went after Tulving and a major grading company for what amounts to misleading investors.

jkrk

AS I remember, Hanes bought gold for John Wayne?

When I dealt with Hanes in the early 2000's he was selling bullion coins.

tcollects

I'd want to get my hands on the coins as I put the cash in his hand

ajaan

FYI the grade on the holder is MS61

blitzdude

@rip_f said:

@MFeld said:
Most of the coins I saw were conservatively graded - even for that time - but the selling prices were quite high.

.
His coin prices might have been high, but he sold a lot of very reasonably priced gold bullion around Y2K. Then his ads all disappeared - retired?

Yeah he retired alright. Right to Federal Prison. Defrauded a lot of customers.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdnc/pr/federal-judge-sentences-coin-and-precious-metals-dealer-and-his-company-defrauding-over

Glen2022

According to the article, He ripped people off for $15 million, got 30 months at club fed, some probation, fine and an unknown amount of restitution. Occurred Feb. 2016. He should be out now. Watch out if he surfaces again. He has to pay the fine/restitution (but don't hold your breath).

Treashunt

@Glen2022 said:
According to the article, He ripped people off for $15 million, got 30 months at club fed, some probation, fine and an unknown amount of restitution. Occurred Feb. 2016. He should be out now. Watch out if he surfaces again. He has to pay the fine/restitution (but don't hold your breath).

I am sure he has declared bankruptcy.

And no one will get anything, including not enough to pay their lawyers

dsessom

@Treashunt said:

I am sure he has declared bankruptcy.

And no one will get anything, including not enough to pay their lawyers

Declaring bankruptcy will not get you out of court imposed fines and restitution. If it's not paid, you are in contempt and will go to jail to work off the fines.

Treashunt

@dsessom said:

@Treashunt said:

I am sure he has declared bankruptcy.

And no one will get anything, including not enough to pay their lawyers

Declaring bankruptcy will not get you out of court imposed fines and restitution. If it's not paid, you are in contempt and will go to jail to work off the fines.

sounds fair

Glen2022

@dsessom said:

@Treashunt said:

I am sure he has declared bankruptcy.

And no one will get anything, including not enough to pay their lawyers

Declaring bankruptcy will not get you out of court imposed fines and restitution. If it's not paid, you are in contempt and will go to jail to work off the fines.

And at prison wages, $.25 per hour or thereabouts, will take several hundred years to pay the $15MM fine, not to mention the restitution.

logger7

A little like Madoff; got caught fulfilling order delays in an irresponsible way and the volatility of the metals at that time. As one big metals dealer told me on Sunday at the Parsippany show he locks in his prices before he walks out to parking lot.

justindan

Are the HT slabs selling with a high premium?

BStrauss3

US Federal BOP Inmate locator shows

Name: HANNES TULVING
Register Number: 30337-058
Age: 67
Race: White
Sex: Male
Released On: 06/22/2018

(I learned about this service when I was looking up an old boss)