@RedSeals said:
The add some data to the collectors may be abusing the system with widgets with free fails arguement, here is a statement from the man himself:
That is fascinating data. It shows that the volume issues they're dealing with right now are almost certainly from dealers, especially given the context of his post.
Not necessarily. Many collectors submit their coins through dealers.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@RedSeals said:
The add some data to the collectors may be abusing the system with widgets with free fails arguement, here is a statement from the man himself:
That is fascinating data. It shows that the volume issues they're dealing with right now are almost certainly from dealers, especially given the context of his post.
Not necessarily. Many collectors submit their coins through dealers.
I would argue collectors need to get off their butts and get accounts. It's cheaper than subbing through a dealer.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@RedSeals said:
The add some data to the collectors may be abusing the system with widgets with free fails arguement, here is a statement from the man himself:
That is fascinating data. It shows that the volume issues they're dealing with right now are almost certainly from dealers, especially given the context of his post.
Not necessarily. Many collectors submit their coins through dealers.
I would argue collectors need to get off their butts and get accounts. It's cheaper than subbing through a dealer.
Would absolutely love to...it's been closed for new accounts for (approx) 6 months.
@RedSeals said:
The add some data to the collectors may be abusing the system with widgets with free fails arguement, here is a statement from the man himself:
That is fascinating data. It shows that the volume issues they're dealing with right now are almost certainly from dealers, especially given the context of his post.
Not necessarily. Many collectors submit their coins through dealers.
I would argue collectors need to get off their butts and get accounts. It's cheaper than subbing through a dealer.
Would absolutely love to...it's been closed for new accounts for (approx) 6 months.
And I empathize with you as apparently a newer collector, but these folks that have been piggybacking with dealers for years? Get on it.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@DelawareDoons said:
I like how you'll hear a few of these same people tell you to buy the coin and not the holder, but that goes out the window once a CAC sticker is involved. Then you're a fool for buying the coin. Hmm.....
Just food for thought. 😉
Is is indeed food for thought so let's think. Could it be that many of the CACed coins are really really really good for their grade and hence their prices reflect that? Well yes I say, that could be it. My collection is around 80% CAC (100% for 17 pre-1917 half dollars and 2 commem halves (!)), and nary a time I can remember paying retail, always above. But you know what, these are all very pq coins and worth the pay-ups for them and I am buying the coin. HST, it is nice to know that the guy who helped start NGC, helped start PCGS, and then started CAC, and is considered to be one of the best graders of coins in the world, puts his sticker of appreciation on the slab of these pq coins. So we are not fools for buying stickered coins, we are the smart ones................................
I have a dealer account and have submitted perhaps over a thousand coins for collectors over the years. They all went in under my dealer account.
Do you screen those coins before you send them in? Percentage wise, how is that working out for your clients?
If someone is local to me, I will meet up with them and go through coin-by-coin and will note my opinion on each piece. Regardless of what I say about these coins, I have never had a client tell me "okay, don't take that one..." when I tell them I don't think it will pass CAC inspection and I tell them why. For folks who might have to mail coins off to me, I typically tell them to send me what they like, but to keep in mind that if they think I wouldn't like the coin then that may correlate with CAC not liking the coin, either. In those cases, I don't know how many coins are held back.
By the way, I don't "send them in". Part of my business service is to bring them to CAC personally and do the walkthrough.
I don't have my numbers in front of me, but my personal collection success rate is something like 98% with perhaps 20% gold CAC stickers while the rate for coins I purchased for my business to list on my site likely hovers around 95% with perhaps 5% gold CAC stickers. Those two pools combined might be fewer than 500-coins. The success rates of my clients vary wildly with one client having a similar success rate to my collection and the lowest being around 40% for another. Overall, I would guess my clients hover around 75% success rate and 5% gold CAC stickers.
My personal success rate is very high - probably about 6 coins out of several hundred not stickering with a couple of those known in advance [early dollars and seated dollars]…and one coin that I know didn’t sticker that I thought he was wrong on stickered the 2nd time [gobrecht].
In an effort to help out Collectors during these trying times I am offering my services to provide the GrandAm "OKEY-DOKEY" approval sticker. Fee is a bargain at only $5 per coin... Failed to OKEY coins are charged full price as I ain't workin' for free
To correct the record, the second tier fee is $35 for coins over $10,000.
I don't think it's collectors submitting low value coins that don't bean causing the log jam. For example, only 155 MS 65 Mercury dimes have received a gold sticker. In viewing recent submission numbers on CAC statements, it appears right now CAC is receiving 83 packages a day. If 20 coins are in each package that's 1660 coins a day. This is not surprising given how active the coin market is right now and that CAC took a break during the Money Show.
Haven't been beat up enough lately so it's time for another post.
1)Everyone in the CAC organization is 1st class.
2)Sending Coins to CAC gives me an idea on how to rate coins in my collection. They don't charge for that service. The service is immensely valuable for me. I can't grade a lick, although I am beginning to pass on more coins than I ever did before.
3)Given that I don't pay for coins that don't sticker, I would pay a higher price for coins that do sticker (maybe it works since I only deal with DE's, which are relatively more expensive compared to other coins?
@DelawareDoons said:
I like how you'll hear a few of these same people tell you to buy the coin and not the holder, but that goes out the window once a CAC sticker is involved. Then you're a fool for buying the coin. Hmm.....
Just food for thought. 😉
I'll play devil's advocate. That is if it's possible to take both sides. Yes, I've always been told "buy the coin and not the holder". However I do appreciate a holder that has been taking care of and not beat to heck with scratches and chips. I don't go out of my way to seek out upgrade labels likely to be seen more on NGC holders. Ok, back to the CAC sticker. In "my opinion" or at least at this moment in thought while writing this, it is buying the coin with the CAC sticker and not the holder. You may be paying a premium but that CAC sticker is all about the coin and not the holder. True?
To dealers who send to CAC on behalf of their clients, out of curiosity what fee (or fees/markup/shipping) do you charge? Or if not you but knowledge on this do dealers typically charge to submit? I have never sent to CAC being an individual collector and after earlier in the year seeing CAC suspended new memberships when I once was giving it thought.
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins? That would eliminate the need to have a coin graded twice to get a second grade? CAC graded coins would be looked at as the 'gold standard' of graded slabbed coins in the market. CAC could also refuse to cross grade any coin. That would in turn give all submitters the incentive to send their coins to CAC first to try and get CAC's 'holiest of holy coin' status.
@fullstepnickels said:
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins?
CAC evaluates coins into A, B and C categories within a grade and stickers the A and B coins. If they slabbed coins, the old C coins would have to be given the grade below the grade they deserve. How could they be graded the same as the A and B coins? As well, once there are only those formerly A and B coins in a given grade, there will now in, reality be, new C coins, as out of all the coins in a grade, there's going to be a bottom third, right? Unless one subscribes to a Prairie Home Companion sort of grading, where all the coins are above average for the grade, of course. Don't see much of a demand for that, but then, that's just me.
@fullstepnickels said:
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins?
CAC evaluates coins into A, B and C categories within a grade and stickers the A and B coins. If they slabbed coins, the old C coins would have to be given the grade below the grade they deserve. How could they be graded the same as the A and B coins? As well, once there are only those formerly A and B coins in a given grade, there will now in, reality be, new C coins, as out of all the coins in a grade, there's going to be a bottom third, right? Unless one subscribes to a Prairie Home Companion sort of grading, where all the coins are above average for the grade, of course. Don't see much of a demand for that, but then, that's just me.
You left out the part about CAC not being able to “simply swallow PCGS”. And that’s even if they wanted to (which they wouldn’t).😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@fullstepnickels said:
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins? That would eliminate the need to have a coin graded twice to get a second grade? CAC graded coins would be looked at as the 'gold standard' of graded slabbed coins in the market. CAC could also refuse to cross grade any coin. That would in turn give all submitters the incentive to send their coins to CAC first to try and get CAC's 'holiest of holy coin' status.
How are they going to keep up with anything near PCGS's volume (10k coins a day?) when they have stated they can do about 500 coins a day right now?
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
@fullstepnickels said:
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins?
CAC evaluates coins into A, B and C categories within a grade and stickers the A and B coins. If they slabbed coins, the old C coins would have to be given the grade below the grade they deserve. How could they be graded the same as the A and B coins? As well, once there are only those formerly A and B coins in a given grade, there will now in, reality be, new C coins, as out of all the coins in a grade, there's going to be a bottom third, right? Unless one subscribes to a Prairie Home Companion sort of grading, where all the coins are above average for the grade, of course. Don't see much of a demand for that, but then, that's just me.
You left out the part about CAC not being able to “simply swallow PCGS”. And that’s even if they wanted to (which they wouldn’t).😉
Well, there's that, too.
Something I didn't account for was that the C coins that got dropped down to the lower grade would be replaced by the C coins that got dropped down from the grade above. That means the old C coins would be new A ones and the A and B coins would become B and C coins. And you'd still have C coins.
@Stingray63 said:
To dealers who send to CAC on behalf of their clients, out of curiosity what fee (or fees/markup/shipping) do you charge? Or if not you but knowledge on this do dealers typically charge to submit? I have never sent to CAC being an individual collector and after earlier in the year seeing CAC suspended new memberships when I once was giving it thought.
I had my application filled out last year or maybe it was 2 years ago only to see new memberships suspended. I'd like to hear from dealers about this as well.
@fullstepnickels said:
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins? That would eliminate the need to have a coin graded twice to get a second grade? CAC graded coins would be looked at as the 'gold standard' of graded slabbed coins in the market. CAC could also refuse to cross grade any coin. That would in turn give all submitters the incentive to send their coins to CAC first to try and get CAC's 'holiest of holy coin' status.
As most of you know, I’ve been a BIG CAC fan and supporter since “Day One”, being among the first CAC Collector submitters. Every coin in my collection eligible for a CAC sticker has a CAC sticker!
However, the PCGS Registry is also important to me. As such, if CAC were to start grading and slabbing coins in their own proprietary holders, unless the PCGS Registry would accept coins graded by CAC (which I believe is very unlikely), I would choose to not buy coins graded by CAC, but would then only buy coins in PCGS holders with the old CAC stickers on them. This would hold for me even if CAC set up their own Registry.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
Comments
Not necessarily. Many collectors submit their coins through dealers.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I would argue collectors need to get off their butts and get accounts. It's cheaper than subbing through a dealer.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Would absolutely love to...it's been closed for new accounts for (approx) 6 months.
And I empathize with you as apparently a newer collector, but these folks that have been piggybacking with dealers for years? Get on it.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Is is indeed food for thought so let's think. Could it be that many of the CACed coins are really really really good for their grade and hence their prices reflect that? Well yes I say, that could be it. My collection is around 80% CAC (100% for 17 pre-1917 half dollars and 2 commem halves (!)), and nary a time I can remember paying retail, always above. But you know what, these are all very pq coins and worth the pay-ups for them and I am buying the coin. HST, it is nice to know that the guy who helped start NGC, helped start PCGS, and then started CAC, and is considered to be one of the best graders of coins in the world, puts his sticker of appreciation on the slab of these pq coins. So we are not fools for buying stickered coins, we are the smart ones................................
Best, SH
I have a dealer account and have submitted perhaps over a thousand coins for collectors over the years. They all went in under my dealer account.
Do you screen those coins before you send them in? Percentage wise, how is that working out for your clients?
If someone is local to me, I will meet up with them and go through coin-by-coin and will note my opinion on each piece. Regardless of what I say about these coins, I have never had a client tell me "okay, don't take that one..." when I tell them I don't think it will pass CAC inspection and I tell them why. For folks who might have to mail coins off to me, I typically tell them to send me what they like, but to keep in mind that if they think I wouldn't like the coin then that may correlate with CAC not liking the coin, either. In those cases, I don't know how many coins are held back.
By the way, I don't "send them in". Part of my business service is to bring them to CAC personally and do the walkthrough.
I don't have my numbers in front of me, but my personal collection success rate is something like 98% with perhaps 20% gold CAC stickers while the rate for coins I purchased for my business to list on my site likely hovers around 95% with perhaps 5% gold CAC stickers. Those two pools combined might be fewer than 500-coins. The success rates of my clients vary wildly with one client having a similar success rate to my collection and the lowest being around 40% for another. Overall, I would guess my clients hover around 75% success rate and 5% gold CAC stickers.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Got me beat, I am only 0.40%.
My personal success rate is very high - probably about 6 coins out of several hundred not stickering with a couple of those known in advance [early dollars and seated dollars]…and one coin that I know didn’t sticker that I thought he was wrong on stickered the 2nd time [gobrecht].
Time for a GC+ sticker?
In an effort to help out Collectors during these trying times I am offering my services to provide the GrandAm "OKEY-DOKEY" approval sticker. Fee is a bargain at only $5 per coin... Failed to OKEY coins are charged full price as I ain't workin' for free
To correct the record, the second tier fee is $35 for coins over $10,000.
I don't think it's collectors submitting low value coins that don't bean causing the log jam. For example, only 155 MS 65 Mercury dimes have received a gold sticker. In viewing recent submission numbers on CAC statements, it appears right now CAC is receiving 83 packages a day. If 20 coins are in each package that's 1660 coins a day. This is not surprising given how active the coin market is right now and that CAC took a break during the Money Show.
Haven't been beat up enough lately so it's time for another post.
1)Everyone in the CAC organization is 1st class.
2)Sending Coins to CAC gives me an idea on how to rate coins in my collection. They don't charge for that service. The service is immensely valuable for me. I can't grade a lick, although I am beginning to pass on more coins than I ever did before.
3)Given that I don't pay for coins that don't sticker, I would pay a higher price for coins that do sticker (maybe it works since I only deal with DE's, which are relatively more expensive compared to other coins?
I'll play devil's advocate. That is if it's possible to take both sides. Yes, I've always been told "buy the coin and not the holder". However I do appreciate a holder that has been taking care of and not beat to heck with scratches and chips. I don't go out of my way to seek out upgrade labels likely to be seen more on NGC holders. Ok, back to the CAC sticker. In "my opinion" or at least at this moment in thought while writing this, it is buying the coin with the CAC sticker and not the holder. You may be paying a premium but that CAC sticker is all about the coin and not the holder. True?
Pocket Change Inspector
To dealers who send to CAC on behalf of their clients, out of curiosity what fee (or fees/markup/shipping) do you charge? Or if not you but knowledge on this do dealers typically charge to submit? I have never sent to CAC being an individual collector and after earlier in the year seeing CAC suspended new memberships when I once was giving it thought.
Pocket Change Inspector
Since the hobby is now riding the CAC wave, buy the sticker, not the coin, why doesn't CAC capitalize on this and simply swallow PCGS and encapsulate their own coins? That would eliminate the need to have a coin graded twice to get a second grade? CAC graded coins would be looked at as the 'gold standard' of graded slabbed coins in the market. CAC could also refuse to cross grade any coin. That would in turn give all submitters the incentive to send their coins to CAC first to try and get CAC's 'holiest of holy coin' status.
CAC evaluates coins into A, B and C categories within a grade and stickers the A and B coins. If they slabbed coins, the old C coins would have to be given the grade below the grade they deserve. How could they be graded the same as the A and B coins? As well, once there are only those formerly A and B coins in a given grade, there will now in, reality be, new C coins, as out of all the coins in a grade, there's going to be a bottom third, right? Unless one subscribes to a Prairie Home Companion sort of grading, where all the coins are above average for the grade, of course. Don't see much of a demand for that, but then, that's just me.
You left out the part about CAC not being able to “simply swallow PCGS”. And that’s even if they wanted to (which they wouldn’t).😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How are they going to keep up with anything near PCGS's volume (10k coins a day?) when they have stated they can do about 500 coins a day right now?
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Well, there's that, too.
Something I didn't account for was that the C coins that got dropped down to the lower grade would be replaced by the C coins that got dropped down from the grade above. That means the old C coins would be new A ones and the A and B coins would become B and C coins. And you'd still have C coins.
I had my application filled out last year or maybe it was 2 years ago only to see new memberships suspended. I'd like to hear from dealers about this as well.
As most of you know, I’ve been a BIG CAC fan and supporter since “Day One”, being among the first CAC Collector submitters. Every coin in my collection eligible for a CAC sticker has a CAC sticker!
However, the PCGS Registry is also important to me. As such, if CAC were to start grading and slabbing coins in their own proprietary holders, unless the PCGS Registry would accept coins graded by CAC (which I believe is very unlikely), I would choose to not buy coins graded by CAC, but would then only buy coins in PCGS holders with the old CAC stickers on them. This would hold for me even if CAC set up their own Registry.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
What other way to find out if it will CAC other to send it in. End of story.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc