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GTG: 1887 Morgan Dollar (Grade Revealed)

jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 29, 2022 8:37PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I just picked up this beautiful 1887 Morgan Dollar at a local show this morning. I thought it would be a good subject for another guess the grade. Also, for those into VAM's try and guess the VAM as well.

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    DrewUDrewU Posts: 151 ✭✭✭
    edited August 28, 2022 6:20PM

    I’ll go 66 and whatever the “Alligator-eye” Vam number is. Nice coin!

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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS66+. A 67 wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    Coin Photographer.

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ill guess 66+ and VAM 12a

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    skier07skier07 Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65-66 with a possible bump for toning.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,617 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS67 is not out of the question in my mind.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66

    Mr_Spud

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66+

    12a

    yours exhibits cracks that i didn't see on the example at V W.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    66+

    12a

    yours exhibits cracks that i didn't see on the example at V W.

    The second plate coin appears to be a very close match to my example. It's certainly a later die state. It's funny, I didn't even catch the VAM on it until I got home. ;)

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    66+

    12a

    yours exhibits cracks that i didn't see on the example at V W.

    Looking a little deeper at the reverse. There is a die chip in the wreath on the left side of the coin. It almost looks like an extra berry. Might be an interesting new die state for a possible new designation.

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    KliaoKliao Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66

    Collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

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    CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65+

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    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Alligator eye, 65.

    Your white balance seems off. Or is it that yellow in hand?

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:
    Alligator eye, 65.

    Your white balance seems off. Or is it that yellow in hand?

    White balance is spot on. The coin is that color in hand. It's actually a little more on the red side in hand.

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    spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65/66. A little chatter on the cheek and at the eye but otherwise the fields look clean assuming that's all toning. Maybe slider to 66/67 depending on what's toning and chatter in the fields?

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    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said:

    @DelawareDoons said:
    Alligator eye, 65.

    Your white balance seems off. Or is it that yellow in hand?

    White balance is spot on. The coin is that color in hand. It's actually a little more on the red side in hand.

    That's not what I expected. I'm curious to see the slab shots.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321... I would guess MS66+... Those pictures are incredible. Great work. Cheers, RickO

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    Joe_360Joe_360 Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Clean, nice strike. MS66+

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    coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS 65+

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    PhilLynottPhilLynott Posts: 882 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Old holder MS66 should be in a 67 holder

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    LeeBoneLeeBone Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @jtlee321 said:

    @DelawareDoons said:
    Alligator eye, 65.

    Your white balance seems off. Or is it that yellow in hand?

    White balance is spot on. The coin is that color in hand. It's actually a little more on the red side in hand.

    That's not what I expected. I'm curious to see the slab shots.

    It looks like it was a crackout of an old NGC holder. The toning at the top of the obverse and bottom of the reverse suggest it was caused by the old NGC insert. It's currently in a more modern PCGS slab. I'll post the slab shots when I reveal the grade this evening.

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @jtlee321... I would guess MS66+... Those pictures are incredible. Great work. Cheers, RickO

    Thank you for the compliment. I will try and post a coin soon that will be "Ricko Approved" ;)

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321.... I will enjoy any of your high quality coin pictures.... does not have to be blast white, though they are nice as well. Cheers, RickO

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭✭✭

    66

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    dunkleosteus430dunkleosteus430 Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭

    MS-66

    Young Numismatist

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    privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭✭✭

    64

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,901 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,763 ✭✭✭✭✭

    5

    Tom

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    lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 8,013 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ... at least 65... likely 66... maybe better.

    Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fairly high mintage date- not of the same quality of the earlier S dates (1879-82) which adds to the challenge grading this one. I am likely on the conservative side at 65+. Terrific images and the coin is a keeper

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,232 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 29, 2022 7:33PM

    @ricko said:
    @jtlee321.... I will enjoy any of your high quality coin pictures.... does not have to be blast white, though they are nice as well. Cheers, RickO

    QUICK, someone check on @ricko, confirm he is all good, stable and woke.

    Like, 66 from me.

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    DelawareDoonsDelawareDoons Posts: 3,384 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said:

    @DelawareDoons said:

    @jtlee321 said:

    @DelawareDoons said:
    Alligator eye, 65.

    Your white balance seems off. Or is it that yellow in hand?

    White balance is spot on. The coin is that color in hand. It's actually a little more on the red side in hand.

    That's not what I expected. I'm curious to see the slab shots.

    It looks like it was a crackout of an old NGC holder. The toning at the top of the obverse and bottom of the reverse suggest it was caused by the old NGC insert. It's currently in a more modern PCGS slab. I'll post the slab shots when I reveal the grade this evening.

    Could be ANACS too, probably more likely than NGC as well.

    Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."

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    JJMJJM Posts: 8,005 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65

    👍BST's erickso1,cone10,MICHAELDIXON,TennesseeDave,p8nt,jmdm1194,RWW,robkool,Ahrensdad,Timbuk3,Downtown1974,bigjpst,mustanggt,Yorkshireman,idratherbgardening,SurfinxHI,derryb,masscrew,Walkerguy21D,MJ1927,sniocsu,Coll3tor,doubleeagle07,luciobar1980,PerryHall,SNMAM,mbcoin,liefgold,keyman64,maprince230,TorinoCobra71,RB1026,Weiss,LukeMarshall,Wingsrule,Silveryfire, pointfivezero,IKE1964,AL410, Tdec1000, AnkurJ,guitarwes,Type2,Bp777,jfoot113,JWP,mattniss,dantheman984,jclovescoins,Collectorcoins,Weather11am,Namvet69,kansasman,Bruce7789,ADG,Larrob37
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    blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,604 ✭✭✭✭✭

    65+ if it straight grades. Looks like it could go AT. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

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    dhikewhitneydhikewhitney Posts: 389 ✭✭✭

    AU58+

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thats probably the nicest 64 Morgan in existence. Definitely an upgrade candidate. If worth the money spent.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

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    DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Send it to CAC for a gold bean.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
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    coastaljerseyguycoastaljerseyguy Posts: 1,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes and if it gets the gold bean appears it will be worth more than a regular 65, and you win in the long run. Good luck.

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said:

    .
    anything you can see from the coin in-hand to explain why it looks so nice to us but is only a 64 in the holder?

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @jtlee321 said:

    .
    anything you can see from the coin in-hand to explain why it looks so nice to us but is only a 64 in the holder?

    Absolutely nothing. I looked it over with a 10x loupe expecting to see something. I couldn't find anything. No spot of corrosion, small patch of hairlines, rub, nothing... I simply don't know why this coin was hated the way it was. If JA sees something, hopefully he can give me feedback on it.

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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,883 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My one of my three part speculative replies was already mentioned. My gut says the coin was crossed from an older white ANACS slab with a vintage dating back to the mid 1990s or earlier.

    The observation is really picky... On the obverse between I B U of PLURIBUS, does anyone see that toning pattern as a residual fingerprint? I see that as a real stretch and it would likely bother others before it would bother me. I like the coin- 65 seems reasonable... I know I wrote 65+ earlier and I would still suggest that would be reasonable.

    The last observation is the disturbances along the lower jaw... this really does not bother me either especially in looking at how clean the cheek and neck are. That should easily serve as an offset because it is minor and hardly worth mentioning.

    I really am unable to offer a compelling/convincing basis for a 64

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinkat said:
    My one of my three part speculative replies was already mentioned. My gut says the coin was crossed from an older white ANACS slab with a vintage dating back to the mid 1990s or earlier.

    The observation is really picky... On the obverse between I B U of PLURIBUS, does anyone see that toning pattern as a residual fingerprint? I see that as a real stretch and it would likely bother others before it would bother me. I like the coin- 65 seems reasonable... I know I wrote 65+ earlier and I would still suggest that would be reasonable.

    The last observation is the disturbances along the lower jaw... this really does not bother me either especially in looking at how clean the cheek and neck are. That should easily serve as an offset because it is minor and hardly worth mentioning.

    I really am unable to offer a compelling/convincing basis for a 64

    The lower cheek area is a very common look for 1886 and 1887 Philly Morgan's. It's a planchet issue and I'm not sure what causes it. But below is another Alligator Eye 1887 graded MS-67 by PCGS that has a very similar look in the lower cheek area.

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    spyglassdesignspyglassdesign Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2022 2:49PM

    @DollarAfterDollar said:
    Send it to CAC for a gold bean.

    This. Imo not worth the risk of a crack out or otherwise...

    Indeed the best 64 in town! (IMO)

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,517 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jtlee321 said:

    @coinkat said:
    My one of my three part speculative replies was already mentioned. My gut says the coin was crossed from an older white ANACS slab with a vintage dating back to the mid 1990s or earlier.

    The observation is really picky... On the obverse between I B U of PLURIBUS, does anyone see that toning pattern as a residual fingerprint? I see that as a real stretch and it would likely bother others before it would bother me. I like the coin- 65 seems reasonable... I know I wrote 65+ earlier and I would still suggest that would be reasonable.

    The last observation is the disturbances along the lower jaw... this really does not bother me either especially in looking at how clean the cheek and neck are. That should easily serve as an offset because it is minor and hardly worth mentioning.

    I really am unable to offer a compelling/convincing basis for a 64

    The lower cheek area is a very common look for 1886 and 1887 Philly Morgan's. It's a planchet issue and I'm not sure what causes it. But below is another Alligator Eye 1887 graded MS-67 by PCGS that has a very similar look in the lower cheek area.

    I believe that jaw area is where the strike did not fully fill the die. I don't know why it shows up on the dates you mentioned more often but it does. Was it due to strike, die, planchet temper, combo...??? It can show up as short lines or a "pebbly" look. It took me awhile to find one I liked and didn't really have that.

    While I am typing there appears to be something on the tip of the nose (like a double hit or flaw) and above the eye (scuff like) of your coin. Can't tell from photo so what is going on there? Just curious. Also can't tell about luster due to lighting but if that looks softer that can definitely play into it if they though it was subdued and could be difficult to see with the toning.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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