Wow! This has gone on a long time - just when you think the verdict is in up comes another picture with an opinion the OP wants to hear. YES! PLEASE send it in. Best of luck on the grading if you indeed are going to send it in. Let us know the results, should be interesting who predicted it right!
EDIT: Anybody want to get some side bets going on the TPG grade?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@Steven59 said:
Wow! This has gone on a long time - just when you think the verdict is in up comes another picture with an opinion the OP wants to hear. YES! PLEASE send it in. Best of luck on the grading if you indeed are going to send it in. Let us know the results, should be interesting who predicted it right!
EDIT: Anybody want to get some side bets going on the TPG grade?
LOL... You obviously haven't read my responses. I was 50/50 at best and came to conclusion it was cleaned. It still could be and probably is even if it is die polish too as the last post said, and even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.
If I do, I will do a GTG since this has definitely driven a lot of opinion and interest 😅
LOL... You obviously haven't read my responses. and even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.
Yes, I have read all your responses, that is why I posted what I did. And when you said "Submitting it doesn't guarantee anything" then there is no use going on from here. Why would you believe a TPG grade when you don't believe any of the expert advice given here?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
LOL... You obviously haven't read my responses. and even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.
Yes, I have read all your responses, that is why I posted what I did. And when you said "Submitting it doesn't guarantee anything" then there is no use going on from here. Why would you believe a TPG grade when you don't believe any of the expert advice given here?
My point was that if the graders are only going to give it a minute, I know at least some people here have given it far more consideration. No grader is perfect as it's subjective. I do believe our host is probably the most reliable however, which is why they get the highest dollars usually. So if I do decide to do so, it would be our host for that reason. Not to try to discredit anyone but to get an opinion, and confirm my suspicions and the suspicions of most here (who have not seen it in hand).
When taking photos with a cell phone, hold it parallel to the surface of the coin,
preferably with a tripod or clamped to something solid.
That way you can get the whole coin in focus.
Use a separate light from different directions, like 10:00 and 3:00.
If you use a "lighted loupe", that will not show hairline scratches very well if at all,
because the angle of light is the same as the angle of view.
Instead, you want the light to come from the side, at 90 degrees to the scratches,
so it will light up one side of the scratch.
@spyglassdesign said:
.... even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.....
Not sure why you have an issue with that. A competent grader wouldnt need more than a couple seconds with the coin in hand, no loupe, to properly grade it.
@yosclimber said:
When taking photos with a cell phone, hold it parallel to the surface of the coin,
preferably with a tripod or clamped to something solid.
That way you can get the whole coin in focus.
Use a separate light from different directions, like 10:00 and 3:00.
If you use a "lighted loupe", that will not show hairline scratches very well if at all,
because the angle of light is the same as the angle of view.
Instead, you want the light to come from the side, at 90 degrees to the scratches,
so it will light up one side of the scratch.
If you want a good return on your $40, buy a tripod and a separate light.
The first pictures were from a tripod camera doing just that. My lighted loupe light does come at an angle, and I also used a side light at the same time. The cell phone pics through the loupe was to try to focus in specific areas to better highlight areas of interest.
@spyglassdesign said:
.... even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.....
Not sure why you have an issue with that. A competent grader wouldnt need more than a couple seconds with the coin in hand, no loupe, to properly grade it.
Is this true, @MFeld? If I'm not mistaken you trained graders?
@yosclimber said:
When taking photos with a cell phone, hold it parallel to the surface of the coin,
preferably with a tripod or clamped to something solid.
That way you can get the whole coin in focus.
Use a separate light from different directions, like 10:00 and 3:00.
If you use a "lighted loupe", that will not show hairline scratches very well if at all,
because the angle of light is the same as the angle of view.
Instead, you want the light to come from the side, at 90 degrees to the scratches,
so it will light up one side of the scratch.
If you want a good return on your $40, buy a tripod and a separate light.
The first pictures were from a tripod camera doing just that. My lighted loupe light does come at an angle, and I also used a side light at the same time. The cell phone pics through the loupe was to try to focus in specific areas to better highlight areas of interest.
If that's true, why isn't the entire coin in focus in those first pictures?
It looks to me that the tripod has not been set up to shoot straight down on the coin.
I agree the light is from the side in the above photo, which is excellent for showing the hairlines.
@yosclimber either the coin or the camera were obviously at slight angles from each other. It wasn't for a lack of trying. I don't have a good way to make the coin totally vertical and my tripod doesn't do small angle movements. It's a work in progress.
The coin should not be vertical.
It should be horizontal - flat on a surface like a table.
Then use your tripod to shoot straight down.
It may take a few tries. Keep trying!
I use a copy stand, so my camera is definitely shooting straight down, but that's a relatively expensive tool.
I also use "LiveView" software, so I can view the coin in realtime on my PC monitor to check the focus.
I have been able to shoot straight down with a regular tripod, with legs about 3 feet long.
You should be able to do it.
If you have a "mini tripod", with very short legs, that is much harder to use, because the legs won't
go wide enough to support the weight of the camera shooting straight down.
New suggestion: spend your $40 on a normal sized tripod, fully adjustable.
There are many on craigslist.org .
I use a Velbon.
@yosclimber it depends on what the goal is. I haven't found straight down to be particularly effective for me (yet) with what I have available, but I'm still experimenting. The macro lenses for my camera are immensely helpful though more than anything else.
I am investigating what is essentially a microscope type set up tho.
What is your camera brand and model?
If you have a decent camera like a Canon, it is way better than a microscope,
because the cheap USB microscopes you can get on ebay don't have a good white balance.
So the color will be wrong on your photos.
@yosclimber
Correct, those first pictures I could not do anything with as the focus was not good and when blown up they just get distorted. So I don't know what all is going on there.
The coin is scratched no matter what all the other stuff is. It is details grade to me.
However, the lines I pointed out appear raised and go to the edge of some of the devices. So far I don't see a response saying what I did or assumed was wrong. If there is something I would like to know as it would be educational to me. If it were over whizzed it generally produces a more matte like appearance as it move a lot of metal. I don't know how to get mostly concentric raised lines (as they appear to be) and right next to a device mechanically. I was just attempting to point stuff out but it seems it was not taken well. Hmmm...
@lilolme I knew what you were doing and appreciated the effort. You showed me things I overlooked. Like you said doesn't necessarily change the fact it was most likely cleaned, but brought some interesting factors to light.
That's a great camera. Better than mine (my best is a Canon T2i).
If you have a 100mm macro lens, then you don't need a microscope.
A $40 tripod will solve your focus problems.
You can also use the Canon LiveView software to see the image in realtime on your PC monitor,
so you can check the focus and lighting very effectively.
@yosclimber I have a $40 tripod, I just don't have a good way to set it up (yet), and this one's not really flexible enough to get the right angles. I'm just using my desk for now. I haven't looked into the live view thing.
@spyglassdesign said:
.... even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.....
Not sure why you have an issue with that. A competent grader wouldnt need more than a couple seconds with the coin in hand, no loupe, to properly grade it.
Is this true, @MFeld? If I'm not mistaken you trained graders?
I didn’t train graders. I taught the ANA summer seminar advanced grading class twice and was a grader at NGC for seven years.
My guess is that many knowledgeable numismatists could determine within two seconds that the coin has been cleaned. If it weren’t cleaned, I don’t think that two seconds would be long enough to assign a straight grade, however.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@spyglassdesign said:
.... even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.....
Not sure why you have an issue with that. A competent grader wouldnt need more than a couple seconds with the coin in hand, no loupe, to properly grade it.
Is this true, @MFeld? If I'm not mistaken you trained graders?
I didn’t train graders. I taught the ANA summer seminar advanced grading class twice and was a grader at NGC for seven years.
My guess is that many knowledgeable numismatists could determine within two seconds that the coin has been cleaned. If it weren’t cleaned, I don’t think that two seconds would be long enough to assign a straight grade, however.
@spyglassdesign said: @yosclimber I have a $40 tripod, I just don't have a good way to set it up (yet), and this one's not really flexible enough to get the right angles. I'm just using my desk for now. I haven't looked into the live view thing.
I took 5 minutes to set up my tripod for shooting straight down,
so you can see how it is done with my Canon T2i.
1. Normal tripod setup with camera on top and telephoto lens.
2. Move camera adapter to bottom of tube to shoot down. Use the ball joint at 90 degrees. Canon 100mm macro lens. This is focused on the quarter on the piece of white paper on the table. I like using a piece of paper, so I can move the coin around with high precision and not scratch it on the table.
3. Close up of ball joint at 90 degrees.
P.S. LiveView is free software and fairly easy to use. Another advantage to using it (besides using a big monitor) is that you normally trip the shutter by clicking your mouse. So you don't press a button on the camera and cause vibration, or have to wait for the timer to work around the vibration.
Comments
Wow! This has gone on a long time - just when you think the verdict is in up comes another picture with an opinion the OP wants to hear. YES! PLEASE send it in. Best of luck on the grading if you indeed are going to send it in. Let us know the results, should be interesting who predicted it right!
EDIT: Anybody want to get some side bets going on the TPG grade?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
LOL... You obviously haven't read my responses. I was 50/50 at best and came to conclusion it was cleaned. It still could be and probably is even if it is die polish too as the last post said, and even submitting it doesn't guarantee anything as I said, they look for like a minute.
If I do, I will do a GTG since this has definitely driven a lot of opinion and interest 😅
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Yes, I have read all your responses, that is why I posted what I did. And when you said "Submitting it doesn't guarantee anything" then there is no use going on from here. Why would you believe a TPG grade when you don't believe any of the expert advice given here?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
On second thought no need for a GTG... I already know what everyone thinks lol
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
My point was that if the graders are only going to give it a minute, I know at least some people here have given it far more consideration. No grader is perfect as it's subjective. I do believe our host is probably the most reliable however, which is why they get the highest dollars usually. So if I do decide to do so, it would be our host for that reason. Not to try to discredit anyone but to get an opinion, and confirm my suspicions and the suspicions of most here (who have not seen it in hand).
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
When taking photos with a cell phone, hold it parallel to the surface of the coin,
preferably with a tripod or clamped to something solid.
That way you can get the whole coin in focus.
Use a separate light from different directions, like 10:00 and 3:00.
If you use a "lighted loupe", that will not show hairline scratches very well if at all,
because the angle of light is the same as the angle of view.
Instead, you want the light to come from the side, at 90 degrees to the scratches,
so it will light up one side of the scratch.
If you want a good return on your $40, buy a tripod and a separate light.
https://www.amazon.com/Photomyne-Flexible-inches-22-5x22-5-Scanning/dp/B08PDCDGY9
Not sure why you have an issue with that. A competent grader wouldnt need more than a couple seconds with the coin in hand, no loupe, to properly grade it.
The first pictures were from a tripod camera doing just that. My lighted loupe light does come at an angle, and I also used a side light at the same time. The cell phone pics through the loupe was to try to focus in specific areas to better highlight areas of interest.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
Is this true, @MFeld? If I'm not mistaken you trained graders?
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
If that's true, why isn't the entire coin in focus in those first pictures?
It looks to me that the tripod has not been set up to shoot straight down on the coin.
I agree the light is from the side in the above photo, which is excellent for showing the hairlines.
@yosclimber either the coin or the camera were obviously at slight angles from each other. It wasn't for a lack of trying. I don't have a good way to make the coin totally vertical and my tripod doesn't do small angle movements. It's a work in progress.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
The coin should not be vertical.
It should be horizontal - flat on a surface like a table.
Then use your tripod to shoot straight down.
It may take a few tries. Keep trying!
I use a copy stand, so my camera is definitely shooting straight down, but that's a relatively expensive tool.
I also use "LiveView" software, so I can view the coin in realtime on my PC monitor to check the focus.
I have been able to shoot straight down with a regular tripod, with legs about 3 feet long.
You should be able to do it.
If you have a "mini tripod", with very short legs, that is much harder to use, because the legs won't
go wide enough to support the weight of the camera shooting straight down.
New suggestion: spend your $40 on a normal sized tripod, fully adjustable.
There are many on craigslist.org .
I use a Velbon.
@yosclimber it depends on what the goal is. I haven't found straight down to be particularly effective for me (yet) with what I have available, but I'm still experimenting. The macro lenses for my camera are immensely helpful though more than anything else.
I am investigating what is essentially a microscope type set up tho.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
What is your camera brand and model?
If you have a decent camera like a Canon, it is way better than a microscope,
because the cheap USB microscopes you can get on ebay don't have a good white balance.
So the color will be wrong on your photos.
@yosclimber not a cheap one from ebay. But yes it's a Canon t8i.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
@yosclimber
Correct, those first pictures I could not do anything with as the focus was not good and when blown up they just get distorted. So I don't know what all is going on there.
The coin is scratched no matter what all the other stuff is. It is details grade to me.
However, the lines I pointed out appear raised and go to the edge of some of the devices. So far I don't see a response saying what I did or assumed was wrong. If there is something I would like to know as it would be educational to me. If it were over whizzed it generally produces a more matte like appearance as it move a lot of metal. I don't know how to get mostly concentric raised lines (as they appear to be) and right next to a device mechanically. I was just attempting to point stuff out but it seems it was not taken well. Hmmm...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
@lilolme I knew what you were doing and appreciated the effort. You showed me things I overlooked. Like you said doesn't necessarily change the fact it was most likely cleaned, but brought some interesting factors to light.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
That's a great camera. Better than mine (my best is a Canon T2i).
If you have a 100mm macro lens, then you don't need a microscope.
A $40 tripod will solve your focus problems.
You can also use the Canon LiveView software to see the image in realtime on your PC monitor,
so you can check the focus and lighting very effectively.
@yosclimber I have a $40 tripod, I just don't have a good way to set it up (yet), and this one's not really flexible enough to get the right angles. I'm just using my desk for now. I haven't looked into the live view thing.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I didn’t train graders. I taught the ANA summer seminar advanced grading class twice and was a grader at NGC for seven years.
My guess is that many knowledgeable numismatists could determine within two seconds that the coin has been cleaned. If it weren’t cleaned, I don’t think that two seconds would be long enough to assign a straight grade, however.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
👍
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
I took 5 minutes to set up my tripod for shooting straight down,
so you can see how it is done with my Canon T2i.
1. Normal tripod setup with camera on top and telephoto lens.
2. Move camera adapter to bottom of tube to shoot down. Use the ball joint at 90 degrees. Canon 100mm macro lens. This is focused on the quarter on the piece of white paper on the table. I like using a piece of paper, so I can move the coin around with high precision and not scratch it on the table.
3. Close up of ball joint at 90 degrees.
P.S. LiveView is free software and fairly easy to use. Another advantage to using it (besides using a big monitor) is that you normally trip the shutter by clicking your mouse. So you don't press a button on the camera and cause vibration, or have to wait for the timer to work around the vibration.
Definitely cleaned... move on to the next one...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
30 posts from the same person. ( @spyglassdesign )
A new record for one thread?
Pete
In... My own thread...? Wow. Shocking.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin