@DelawareDoons said:
I will say I do find Rosemont to be kinda boring. I wish they'd do it more in a downtown area like Philly. RTM is right there
The thing about Chicsgo is central location nationally and an airline hub making attendance easy. Philly is a great city but not as easy for West Coast people to get to with direct flights.
@DelawareDoons said:
I will say I do find Rosemont to be kinda boring. I wish they'd do it more in a downtown area like Philly. RTM is right there
The thing about Chicsgo is central location nationally and an airline hub making attendance easy. Philly is a great city but not as easy for West Coast people to get to with direct flights.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's tough to find an ideal city, since you need a major transit hub with an easy connection to a downtown area.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The thing about Chicago is central location nationally and an airline hub making attendance easy.
I agree - I'll be definitely going to Pittsburgh next year. But unlike direct flights to Chicago or Philly, it will mean I'll have to do the connecting flight routine.
While we're on the topic of suggestions to improve the ANA, I got a letter last week promoting the $15 NGC membership discount coupon they were sending me.
I thought to myself, that membership is free with my ANA membership, so why would I need a coupon? 🤔
A quick call to ANA customer service confirmed that they ended that benefit.
No matter where they move the ANA show, someone's not going to be happy with it, be they dealer or collector.
I agree about repetitive exhibits, and mostly the same people all showing up... thus the show reports are usually always the same. That said, if you have a want list you should be able to do damage to it as long as you're willing to pay up. I also agree the show's too long. Most dealer to dealer transactions can be accomplished the first day or two, with a couple of days after for the public. 4 days is adequate IMO but 6 days is ridiculous.
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax. I guarantee it wouldn't fly in NY.
If it's "good thing for collectors and vest pockets", let them pay for it. Why should dealers pay to support a show that is intentionally taking business away from them?
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax. I guarantee it wouldn't fly in NY.
If it's "good thing for collectors and vest pockets", let them pay for it. Why should dealers pay to support a show that is intentionally taking business away from them?
I understand your opinions, I just don't agree with them. Dealers aren't doing the show & collectors some magnanimous favor by paying their fees. Dealers are buying access to collectors and anything that increases foot traffic is the show returning value and should be their primary focus. Your line of thinking about preserving competitive angles over the diminishing people who do show up might not be in the best interests of the show or collectors as the experience takes all three. I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers. As long as there are collectors and foot traffic, dealers will show up no matter their personal thoughts on collector tables.
And I said in my first post "rent" tables to collectors so I don't get your harp on pay for it. Dealers aren't paying for collectors to show up, you are paying for access to collectors. They owe nothing to your comfort and If you want a show of only established dealers to do wholesale with there are plentily of those already with limited serious foot traffic.
I am speaking as a collector who is sick of walking the floors seeing the same people selling the same coins with few exceptions. I am at the point where instead of 5-7 major shows a year I might go to one. If the ANA had such a program not only would I go more, I would sell more too. More transactions is what the game should be about for the business.
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax. I guarantee it wouldn't fly in NY.
If it's "good thing for collectors and vest pockets", let them pay for it. Why should dealers pay to support a show that is intentionally taking business away from them?
I understand your opinions, I just don't agree with them. Dealers aren't doing the show & collectors some magnanimous favor by paying their fees. Dealers are buying access to collectors and anything that increases foot traffic is the show returning value and should be their primary focus. Your line of thinking about preserving competitive angles over the diminishing people who do show up might not be in the best interests of the show or collectors as the experience takes all three. I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers. As long as there are collectors and foot traffic, dealers will show up no matter their personal thoughts on collector tables.
And I said in my first post "rent" tables to collectors so I don't get your harp on pay for it. Dealers aren't paying for collectors to show up, you are paying for access to collectors. They owe nothing to your comfort and If you want a show of only established dealers to do wholesale with there are plentily of those already with limited serious foot traffic.
I am speaking as a collector who is sick of walking the floors seeing the same people selling the same coins with few exceptions. I am at the point where instead of 5-7 major shows a year I might go to one. If the ANA had such a program not only would I go more, I would sell more too. More transactions is what the game should be about for the business.
I assumed the incentivizing meant giving them a discount. There's nothing preventing a group of collectors sharing a table now... well, other then they don't want to spend a couple thousand in table fees. The ANA is an expensive show, especially if you include travel, hotel, table fees etc.
You know why vest pocket dealers are vest pocket dealers? Because they refuse to pay table fees.
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax. I guarantee it wouldn't fly in NY.
If it's "good thing for collectors and vest pockets", let them pay for it. Why should dealers pay to support a show that is intentionally taking business away from them?
I understand your opinions, I just don't agree with them. Dealers aren't doing the show & collectors some magnanimous favor by paying their fees. Dealers are buying access to collectors and anything that increases foot traffic is the show returning value and should be their primary focus. Your line of thinking about preserving competitive angles over the diminishing people who do show up might not be in the best interests of the show or collectors as the experience takes all three. I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers. As long as there are collectors and foot traffic, dealers will show up no matter their personal thoughts on collector tables.
And I said in my first post "rent" tables to collectors so I don't get your harp on pay for it. Dealers aren't paying for collectors to show up, you are paying for access to collectors. They owe nothing to your comfort and If you want a show of only established dealers to do wholesale with there are plentily of those already with limited serious foot traffic.
I am speaking as a collector who is sick of walking the floors seeing the same people selling the same coins with few exceptions. I am at the point where instead of 5-7 major shows a year I might go to one. If the ANA had such a program not only would I go more, I would sell more too. More transactions is what the game should be about for the business.
I assumed the incentivizing meant giving them a discount. There's nothing preventing a group of collectors sharing a table now... well, other then they don't want to spend a couple thousand in table fees. The ANA is an expensive show, especially if you include travel, hotel, table fees etc.
You know why vest pocket dealers are vest pocket dealers? Because they refuse to pay table fees.
Ok I see your angle a little better now and you're right I was implying cheaper but not necessarily in content but price. Lowering the price point would get VP and collectors more involved but I assumed and might not have been clear that by lowering the price would obviously involve de-contenting what they got be it:
-less time
-less cases
-less/no separation between
-no overnight storage
-less ideal locations
All that said you're right it couldn't be too egregiously cheaper or prolific to devalue the main tables. It would also have to be a constricted supply being less than demand.
I would stick a big long group of contiguous tables with a controlled in & out flow (similar to the exhibits) in the worst spot on the floor and line up single cases and sell those in time blocks based on day of the show making the later days the cheapest. If such a concept took off it might even convince a few extra dealers to stick around later in the show to pick off.....errr deal with the amateurs. I would brand and promote it to pump even the idea of fresh material to all involved. I don't even think it would be unethical for a show coordinator to briefly review a proposed inventory spread sheet in their application process and add preference/staging to better candidates. It could also assist younger dealers as an entry point mixed in with collectors.
PS lol on your definition of VP, that is a fair point.
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax. I guarantee it wouldn't fly in NY.
If it's "good thing for collectors and vest pockets", let them pay for it. Why should dealers pay to support a show that is intentionally taking business away from them?
I understand your opinions, I just don't agree with them. Dealers aren't doing the show & collectors some magnanimous favor by paying their fees. Dealers are buying access to collectors and anything that increases foot traffic is the show returning value and should be their primary focus. Your line of thinking about preserving competitive angles over the diminishing people who do show up might not be in the best interests of the show or collectors as the experience takes all three. I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers. As long as there are collectors and foot traffic, dealers will show up no matter their personal thoughts on collector tables.
And I said in my first post "rent" tables to collectors so I don't get your harp on pay for it. Dealers aren't paying for collectors to show up, you are paying for access to collectors. They owe nothing to your comfort and If you want a show of only established dealers to do wholesale with there are plentily of those already with limited serious foot traffic.
I am speaking as a collector who is sick of walking the floors seeing the same people selling the same coins with few exceptions. I am at the point where instead of 5-7 major shows a year I might go to one. If the ANA had such a program not only would I go more, I would sell more too. More transactions is what the game should be about for the business.
I assumed the incentivizing meant giving them a discount. There's nothing preventing a group of collectors sharing a table now... well, other then they don't want to spend a couple thousand in table fees. The ANA is an expensive show, especially if you include travel, hotel, table fees etc.
You know why vest pocket dealers are vest pocket dealers? Because they refuse to pay table fees.
Ok I see your angle a little better now and you're right I was implying cheaper but not necessarily in content but price. Lowering the price point would get VP and collectors more involved but I assumed and might not have been clear that by lowering the price would obviously involve de-contenting what they got be it:
-less time
-less cases
-less/no separation between
-no overnight storage
-less ideal locations
All that said you're right it couldn't be too egregiously cheaper or prolific to devalue the main tables. It would also have to be a constricted supply being less than demand.
I would stick a big long group of contiguous tables with a controlled in & out flow (similar to the exhibits) in the worst spot on the floor and line up single cases and sell those in time blocks based on day of the show making the later days the cheapest. If such a concept took off it might even convince a few extra dealers to stick around later in the show to pick off.....errr deal with the amateurs. I would brand and promote it to pump even the idea of fresh material to all involved. I don't even think it would be unethical for a show coordinator to briefly review a proposed inventory spread sheet in their application process and add preference/staging to better candidates. It could also assist younger dealers as an entry point mixed in with collectors.
PS lol on your definition of VP, that is a fair point.
@bignubnumismatics1 said:
The Auction houses and most people bidding on them prefer having auctions a week later.
1.) The auction houses have a lot less money to invest in an in-person auction
2.) many people are busy at the show. It gives them an opportunity to take their time after lot viewing
3.) (minus on the company front)
Ego bidding is not as prevalent as in-person.
I think the issue was more about paid sponsorship than anything else. If Heritage is having the auction from Dallas the following week, they don't need to pay to be the official auctioneer of the ANA. They can just do lot viewing and have their own later. Especially if lot viewing is off site.
Agreed, but the ANA can still charge premium prices to the auction companies for auction viewing rooms at the convention center. It will probably never amount to as much as the ANA was used to earning back in the day, but it could still be a nice profit center.
Right, but if the auction is not actually going to be held at the venue, what's in it for the auction companies to pay those premium prices? Serious bidders will walk the few blocks, including Laura, no matter how much she might complain about it. Sure beats flying to Dallas, or wherever, for people who are at the show anyway!
There is already a thriving online auction market, as Great Collections has shown, even for big money coins. In 2022, no one needs to pay both the ANA and a convention center to rent several rooms for a week in order to conduct a successful coin auction.
If, for whatever reason, the auction companies do not feel it is worth the extra expense to actually conduct the auction at the show, there is simply no reason to pay to set up shop at a convention center versus a nearby hotel. My guess is that the pandemic showed them that they will do just fine with off-site auctions, and Laura is correct insofar as that is probably going to blow a huge hole in the ANA's budget in the years ahead.
Renting a room at the convention center through the ANA will attract SOME additional bidders. And telling potential consignors that you have an authorized auction at the ANA WFM and that you'll be showing lots on site will attract SOME additional consignors. So working with the ANA has SOME value to an auction firm, and is worth paying SOME price.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@bignubnumismatics1 said:
The Auction houses and most people bidding on them prefer having auctions a week later.
1.) The auction houses have a lot less money to invest in an in-person auction
2.) many people are busy at the show. It gives them an opportunity to take their time after lot viewing
3.) (minus on the company front)
Ego bidding is not as prevalent as in-person.
I think the issue was more about paid sponsorship than anything else. If Heritage is having the auction from Dallas the following week, they don't need to pay to be the official auctioneer of the ANA. They can just do lot viewing and have their own later. Especially if lot viewing is off site.
Agreed, but the ANA can still charge premium prices to the auction companies for auction viewing rooms at the convention center. It will probably never amount to as much as the ANA was used to earning back in the day, but it could still be a nice profit center.
Right, but if the auction is not actually going to be held at the venue, what's in it for the auction companies to pay those premium prices? Serious bidders will walk the few blocks, including Laura, no matter how much she might complain about it. Sure beats flying to Dallas, or wherever, for people who are at the show anyway!
There is already a thriving online auction market, as Great Collections has shown, even for big money coins. In 2022, no one needs to pay both the ANA and a convention center to rent several rooms for a week in order to conduct a successful coin auction.
If, for whatever reason, the auction companies do not feel it is worth the extra expense to actually conduct the auction at the show, there is simply no reason to pay to set up shop at a convention center versus a nearby hotel. My guess is that the pandemic showed them that they will do just fine with off-site auctions, and Laura is correct insofar as that is probably going to blow a huge hole in the ANA's budget in the years ahead.
Renting a room at the convention center through the ANA will attract SOME additional bidders. And telling potential consignors that you have an authorized auction at the ANA WFM and that you'll be showing lots on site will attract SOME additional consignors. So working with the ANA has SOME value to an auction firm, and is worth paying SOME price.
I dunno. I'm not on the business side of the relations between the ANA and the auction companies, but I have been a member of the ANA for a number of years now, have gone to a few WFOMs, and have been paying attention. In the past, I've noticed that both Heritage and Stacks-Bowers were sponsoring firms, and both had on site sessions, as well as lot viewing.
This year it was just GC. Either they paid a TON of money for the exclusive (possible but unlikely) OR the other firms' experience during the pandemic showed them that they don't need to be onsite at a show to have a successful auction. I'm going with the latter, and note that ANA still sold them tables, so they still had a presence at the show.
Sure, there is always SOME value for a numismatic auction to be affiliated with a national show. The question is whether the cost justifies the incremental business. And the answer in 2022 is apparently not, when lot viewing can easily be conducted offsite and bidders have become conditioned by the pandemic to participating in the auction online or by phone.
Of course, the really big whales are always welcome to travel to Dallas, California, or wherever, if they need to attend in person, as I'm sure some did. Heritage and Stacks-Bowers could probably treat them to all expenses paid vacations to the auction sites, and still save a ton of money over what it would cost to be onsite in Rosemont.
@bignubnumismatics1 said:
The Auction houses and most people bidding on them prefer having auctions a week later.
1.) The auction houses have a lot less money to invest in an in-person auction
2.) many people are busy at the show. It gives them an opportunity to take their time after lot viewing
3.) (minus on the company front)
Ego bidding is not as prevalent as in-person.
I think the issue was more about paid sponsorship than anything else. If Heritage is having the auction from Dallas the following week, they don't need to pay to be the official auctioneer of the ANA. They can just do lot viewing and have their own later. Especially if lot viewing is off site.
Agreed, but the ANA can still charge premium prices to the auction companies for auction viewing rooms at the convention center. It will probably never amount to as much as the ANA was used to earning back in the day, but it could still be a nice profit center.
Right, but if the auction is not actually going to be held at the venue, what's in it for the auction companies to pay those premium prices? Serious bidders will walk the few blocks, including Laura, no matter how much she might complain about it. Sure beats flying to Dallas, or wherever, for people who are at the show anyway!
There is already a thriving online auction market, as Great Collections has shown, even for big money coins. In 2022, no one needs to pay both the ANA and a convention center to rent several rooms for a week in order to conduct a successful coin auction.
If, for whatever reason, the auction companies do not feel it is worth the extra expense to actually conduct the auction at the show, there is simply no reason to pay to set up shop at a convention center versus a nearby hotel. My guess is that the pandemic showed them that they will do just fine with off-site auctions, and Laura is correct insofar as that is probably going to blow a huge hole in the ANA's budget in the years ahead.
Renting a room at the convention center through the ANA will attract SOME additional bidders. And telling potential consignors that you have an authorized auction at the ANA WFM and that you'll be showing lots on site will attract SOME additional consignors. So working with the ANA has SOME value to an auction firm, and is worth paying SOME price.
I dunno. I'm not on the business side of the relations between the ANA and the auction companies, but I have been a member of the ANA for a number of years now, have gone to a few WFOMs, and have been paying attention. In the past, I've noticed that both Heritage and Stacks-Bowers were sponsoring firms, and both had on site sessions, as well as lot viewing.
This year it was just GC. Either they paid a TON of money for the exclusive (possible but unlikely) OR the other firms' experience during the pandemic showed them that they don't need to be onsite at a show to have a successful auction. I'm going with the latter, and note that ANA still sold them tables, so they still had a presence at the show.
Sure, there is always SOME value for a numismatic auction to be affiliated with a national show. The question is whether the cost justifies the incremental business. And the answer in 2022 is apparently not, when lot viewing can easily be conducted offsite and bidders have become conditioned by the pandemic to participating in the auction online or by phone.
Of course, the really big whales are always welcome to travel to Dallas, California, or wherever, if they need to attend in person, as I'm sure some did. Heritage and Stacks-Bowers could probably treat them to all expenses paid vacations to the auction sites, and still save a ton of money over what it would cost to be onsite in Rosemont.
@NJCoin said:
And the answer in 2022 is apparently not, when lot viewing can easily be conducted offsite and bidders have become conditioned by the pandemic to participating in the auction online or by phone.
During the pandemic when no one was viewing lots, you could roll the dice, buy coins based on the pictures and often be pleasantly surprised with the results.
Now with many people viewing lots, you are going to get outbid on everything nice unless you also have the confidence that comes from lot viewing.
@NJCoin said:
And the answer in 2022 is apparently not, when lot viewing can easily be conducted offsite and bidders have become conditioned by the pandemic to participating in the auction online or by phone.
During the pandemic when no one was viewing lots, you could roll the dice, buy coins based on the pictures and often be pleasantly surprised with the results.
Now with many people viewing lots, you are going to get outbid on everything nice unless you also have the confidence that comes from lot viewing.
Yes, of course! The fact remains that the lots were available for viewing in Rosemont, a few short blocks away from the convention center, for anyone who was interested.
The big change was that the auction companies learned that they don't need to have auctions onsite at the show, based on their experience last year. Knowing that, why pay for a sponsorship or onsite lot viewing, when there are hotel meeting rooms available for rent, at a fraction of the cost, up and down River Rd.?
Decent food at a reasonable price is also not available at the convention center. People find it outside the convention center. Why would lot viewing be any different, especially for people going to the show to view lots?
@giantsfan20 said:
For those in the Chicago area did the ANA do much local advertising to promote the show?
I didn’t notice any on the radio stations I listen to (one of which did have an ad for a mid sized local show several years ago). Of course I don’t listen to all the stations or watch many of the local tv channels, so it’s possible I missed an ad.
She spelled San Diego wrong also, LMAO, maybe that is why it is hard to get here. Try the right spelling and wow it is easy to get to sunny San Diego.
Moving a national coin show to San Diego may actually be a great idea. San Diego is a destination city where people go on vacation. Probably the best climate in the USA. If you had to take a plane trip to go to a show, what does it matter if you go to Chicago or San Diego? Where would you rather land at and hang out for couple days???
She spelled San Diego wrong also, LMAO, maybe that is why it is hard to get here. Try the right spelling and wow it is easy to get to sunny San Diego.
Moving a national coin show to San Diego may actually be a great idea. San Diego is a destination city where people go on vacation. Probably the best climate in the USA. If you had to take a plane trip to go to a show, what does it matter if you go to Chicago or San Diego? Where would you rather land at and hang out for couple days???
She's speaking relatively. Chicago is a hub. Easy to get direct flights. Only a couple hours flight from most of the Continental US.
She also wasn't picking on San Diego. She was comparing to Comic Con which happens to be in San Diego.
For me, I could day trip the ANA in Chicago. It would be a whole day of just traveling to get to San Diego.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Moving a national coin show to San Diego may actually be a great idea. San Diego is a destination city where people go on vacation. Probably the best climate in the USA. If you had to take a plane trip to go to a show, what does it matter if you go to Chicago or San Diego? Where would you rather land at and hang out for couple days???
San Diego loses out to Las Vegas and Phoenix for the same reason Boston loses out to Baltimore. The hotels are too expensive and the travel is difficult for half the country.
Nationally, San Diego also loses out to Orlando in every category: hotel prices, transportation, public safety, theme parks, and yes, beaches if you are willing to drive for an hour. Even the Surf Expo chooses Orlando!
@Crypto said:
The ANA should lead the way to revitalize conventions and create a Collectors corner to rent tables to non-pros in half day blocks to buy/ sell/ trade/ exhibit their own wares without a resale license under the guise that they pay all respective taxes ect. Give dealers extra access or first bite and role the vest pockets and collectors through there. It would not only create excitement it would also inject new material and bring more feet to the show. Sounds like a win win win to me
put it in the back of the floor and incentivize walkers to make it back there, it would add value to the dealer spots near otherwise stale floor locations as well. By doing half day blocks everyday it would also incentives people/dealers to stick around longer and more days. The more feet that stick around longer will equate to more dollars spent in most models simply due to idle hands
That would be illegal in many/most/all jurisdiction.
You also can't really justify to me why they should give away tables that they charge a lot of money for. If I were a dealer at the ANA. I would throw a fit if I have to compete with a group of sellers that have a lower cost of business. A lower cost that I'M paying to provide.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax.
No sales tax on coins and bullion in The Commonwealth. God bless The Commonwealth. RGDS!
If you put a major show in San Diego, it will be so poorly attended by anyone on the east coast, you’ll never make that mistake again. It is one of the hardest cities to get to, and I was disappointed that the pcgs members show was there a couple weeks ago. I rarely miss the member shows, but this one was basically in an impossible location.
@1madman said:
If you put a major show in San Diego, it will be so poorly attended by anyone on the east coast, you’ll never make that mistake again. It is one of the hardest cities to get to, and I was disappointed that the pcgs members show was there a couple weeks ago. I rarely miss the member shows, but this one was basically in an impossible location.
From two people I heard that the last pcgs SD show was lightly attended versus a typical one in LV.
I have never been to an ANA show and probably won't go in the near future, even though I spend a lot on coins. One of the things that could draw me in is the programming.
As someone that's attended a handful of San Diego Comic Cons and other comic shows, I can say that the main draw for me is the programming and the fan-to-fan comraderie. I personally did very little spending on comics or other goods. It is an event that can charge $25-50 and provide at least as much value in the programming.
Is it possible to create a coin convention (not show) that's driven mainly my programming, exhibits, collector clubs, and other collector-to-collector interactions?
The folks at PCGS have said many times that they think this is the direction that coin shows have to go if it can, and I tend to agree.
If you put a major show in San Diego, it will be so poorly attended by anyone on the east coast, you’ll never make that mistake again. It is one of the hardest cities to get to, and I was disappointed that the pcgs members show was there a couple weeks ago. I rarely miss the member shows, but this one was basically in an impossible location.
+1. Getting there from South Carolina would be an all-day ordeal for me compared to a quick two-hour flight to Chicago or even less to the major cities on the East Coast.
@neildrobertson said:
Is it possible to create a coin convention (not show) that's driven mainly my programming, exhibits, collector clubs, and other collector-to-collector interactions?
The folks at PCGS have said many times that they think this is the direction that coin shows have to go if it can, and I tend to agree.
I think it depends upon the reason someone goes to a show. I've read many accounts on coin forums by those who make it an actual vacation. For them, I think it would work because they are not there exclusively to buy coins.
I have been to seven ANA, all local to where I was at the time, including for work. I'm not spending a cent (outside of commuting expenses) or a minute of my vacation time to get to a coin show, unless I have another reason to be there. I am also only interested in the available for sale inventory, not anything else. Due to what I collect (which isn't US), there is also no need to be there more than one day.
The last few times, I have been able to arrive the first day to provide what I presume is the best opportunity to find something for my collection. I can do that in the morning and leave by lunch.
@telephoto1 said:
** I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers.**
Chicken vs. egg argument. Without something available to collect, there are no collectors...
There were coin collectors long before there were dealers. I’m not sayIng dealers don’t make life easier with education and access but the coins are there to be collected with or without dealers
@neildrobertson said:
I have never been to an ANA show and probably won't go in the near future, even though I spend a lot on coins. One of the things that could draw me in is the programming.
As someone that's attended a handful of San Diego Comic Cons and other comic shows, I can say that the main draw for me is the programming and the fan-to-fan comraderie. I personally did very little spending on comics or other goods. It is an event that can charge $25-50 and provide at least as much value in the programming.
Is it possible to create a coin convention (not show) that's driven mainly my programming, exhibits, collector clubs, and other collector-to-collector interactions?
The folks at PCGS have said many times that they think this is the direction that coin shows have to go if it can, and I tend to agree.
Coin shows don't seem comparable to Comic Cons. It would be hard to get a lot of people to travel for coin programming as it is not as big of an attraction. There are plenty of good club meeting, talks, and exhibits already and those only get a fraction of the attention. The biggest point of a show is to be able to buy and sell coins in person.
There are plenty of Western-US-ish airline hub cities that I’d enjoy more than the suburbs of Chicago. Denver, Phoenix (not in summer), and Salt Lake City come to mind. Plenty of direct flights to almost every city in the US from any of these. Not every time, and not forever, but some sort of change would be welcome.
@BryceM said:
There are plenty of Western-US-ish airline hub cities that I’d enjoy more than the suburbs of Chicago. Denver, Phoenix (not in summer), and Salt Lake City come to mind. Plenty of direct flights to almost every city in the US from any of these. Not every time, and not forever, but some sort of change would be welcome.
@BryceM said:
There are plenty of Western-US-ish airline hub cities that I’d enjoy more than the suburbs of Chicago. Denver, Phoenix (not in summer), and Salt Lake City come to mind. Plenty of direct flights to almost every city in the US from any of these. Not every time, and not forever, but some sort of change would be welcome.
Denver was within the past 10 years. Worked well enough. Long ride from the airport, but then everything is a long ride from the Denver airport. I have heard that the downtown area near the convention center has gone downhill over the past few years with a lot more homeless and drug problems.
Spring ANA will be in Phoenix next March. SLC might work, depending on the sales tax rules.
One of the things about Denver is that there is little population base near to it. This is not a bad thing but if looking for those that might do a 4 to 6 hour drive to get to a show like ANA, then Denver has no significant population base for that. It is mostly Denver metro area.
@lilolme said:
One of the things about Denver is that there is little population base near to it. This is not a bad thing but if looking for those that might do a 4 to 6 hour drive to get to a show like ANA, then Denver has no significant population base for that. It is mostly Denver metro area.
Houston and Dallas should be in the rotation - 5 major metro areas within a few hours drive - Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin and New Orleans. No sales tax in Texas on bullion or numismatics items. Both Houston and Dallas have 2 major airports each - Bush and Hobby in Houston and Love and DFW in Dallas. Both have cheap hotels.
Comments
The thing about Chicsgo is central location nationally and an airline hub making attendance easy. Philly is a great city but not as easy for West Coast people to get to with direct flights.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's tough to find an ideal city, since you need a major transit hub with an easy connection to a downtown area.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
The thing about Chicago is central location nationally and an airline hub making attendance easy.
I agree - I'll be definitely going to Pittsburgh next year. But unlike direct flights to Chicago or Philly, it will mean I'll have to do the connecting flight routine.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Philadelphia is currently on the ANA's "never again" list because of the unions.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
While we're on the topic of suggestions to improve the ANA, I got a letter last week promoting the $15 NGC membership discount coupon they were sending me.
I thought to myself, that membership is free with my ANA membership, so why would I need a coupon? 🤔
A quick call to ANA customer service confirmed that they ended that benefit.
No matter where they move the ANA show, someone's not going to be happy with it, be they dealer or collector.
I agree about repetitive exhibits, and mostly the same people all showing up... thus the show reports are usually always the same. That said, if you have a want list you should be able to do damage to it as long as you're willing to pay up. I also agree the show's too long. Most dealer to dealer transactions can be accomplished the first day or two, with a couple of days after for the public. 4 days is adequate IMO but 6 days is ridiculous.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Which is a shame. Lots of other conventions find a way to make it work just fine.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
She will not be happy about the show being in Pittsburgh next year, but I am very happy.
I didn't say give away, and I don't quite get how it would be illegal. They would just have to put in wording in the rental slips that participants were responsible for all taxes all ways though local compliance. They would most likely have to make it collector/VP trading tables with a liability buffer for transactions.
I would also agree that they would have to have a unit cost higher than the established full show dealers prorated down for the smaller time duration. That coupled to demanding set up prior to general public admittance for dealers to get early shots at stuff should quell the majority of grips from the big boys.
Really what dealers would complain about is the number of collectors interested in liquidating their collections this route would limit serious sellers somewhat walking the floor stumbling into one on one negotiation scenarios which often lead to larger wins for dealers than buying a few pieces and starting the talks at retail. To that avenue I think it is a good thing for collectors and vest pockets.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
A lot of jurisdictions require that you have a resale certificate. You can't legally collect sales tax without it. And you can't legally not collect sales tax. I guarantee it wouldn't fly in NY.
If it's "good thing for collectors and vest pockets", let them pay for it. Why should dealers pay to support a show that is intentionally taking business away from them?
I understand your opinions, I just don't agree with them. Dealers aren't doing the show & collectors some magnanimous favor by paying their fees. Dealers are buying access to collectors and anything that increases foot traffic is the show returning value and should be their primary focus. Your line of thinking about preserving competitive angles over the diminishing people who do show up might not be in the best interests of the show or collectors as the experience takes all three. I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers. As long as there are collectors and foot traffic, dealers will show up no matter their personal thoughts on collector tables.
And I said in my first post "rent" tables to collectors so I don't get your harp on pay for it. Dealers aren't paying for collectors to show up, you are paying for access to collectors. They owe nothing to your comfort and If you want a show of only established dealers to do wholesale with there are plentily of those already with limited serious foot traffic.
I am speaking as a collector who is sick of walking the floors seeing the same people selling the same coins with few exceptions. I am at the point where instead of 5-7 major shows a year I might go to one. If the ANA had such a program not only would I go more, I would sell more too. More transactions is what the game should be about for the business.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
the show needs to encourage coin cosplay, just imagine it
I assumed the incentivizing meant giving them a discount. There's nothing preventing a group of collectors sharing a table now... well, other then they don't want to spend a couple thousand in table fees. The ANA is an expensive show, especially if you include travel, hotel, table fees etc.
You know why vest pocket dealers are vest pocket dealers? Because they refuse to pay table fees.
Ok I see your angle a little better now and you're right I was implying cheaper but not necessarily in content but price. Lowering the price point would get VP and collectors more involved but I assumed and might not have been clear that by lowering the price would obviously involve de-contenting what they got be it:
-less time
-less cases
-less/no separation between
-no overnight storage
-less ideal locations
All that said you're right it couldn't be too egregiously cheaper or prolific to devalue the main tables. It would also have to be a constricted supply being less than demand.
I would stick a big long group of contiguous tables with a controlled in & out flow (similar to the exhibits) in the worst spot on the floor and line up single cases and sell those in time blocks based on day of the show making the later days the cheapest. If such a concept took off it might even convince a few extra dealers to stick around later in the show to pick off.....errr deal with the amateurs. I would brand and promote it to pump even the idea of fresh material to all involved. I don't even think it would be unethical for a show coordinator to briefly review a proposed inventory spread sheet in their application process and add preference/staging to better candidates. It could also assist younger dealers as an entry point mixed in with collectors.
PS lol on your definition of VP, that is a fair point.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Fair enough. I'm glad we sorted it out.
Meh. They could give away all the coins on the bourse floor at the ANA and someone would still complain about it.
Renting a room at the convention center through the ANA will attract SOME additional bidders. And telling potential consignors that you have an authorized auction at the ANA WFM and that you'll be showing lots on site will attract SOME additional consignors. So working with the ANA has SOME value to an auction firm, and is worth paying SOME price.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I dunno. I'm not on the business side of the relations between the ANA and the auction companies, but I have been a member of the ANA for a number of years now, have gone to a few WFOMs, and have been paying attention. In the past, I've noticed that both Heritage and Stacks-Bowers were sponsoring firms, and both had on site sessions, as well as lot viewing.
This year it was just GC. Either they paid a TON of money for the exclusive (possible but unlikely) OR the other firms' experience during the pandemic showed them that they don't need to be onsite at a show to have a successful auction. I'm going with the latter, and note that ANA still sold them tables, so they still had a presence at the show.
Sure, there is always SOME value for a numismatic auction to be affiliated with a national show. The question is whether the cost justifies the incremental business. And the answer in 2022 is apparently not, when lot viewing can easily be conducted offsite and bidders have become conditioned by the pandemic to participating in the auction online or by phone.
Of course, the really big whales are always welcome to travel to Dallas, California, or wherever, if they need to attend in person, as I'm sure some did. Heritage and Stacks-Bowers could probably treat them to all expenses paid vacations to the auction sites, and still save a ton of money over what it would cost to be onsite in Rosemont.
Was Laura actually in attendance this year?
Latin American Collection
This makes sense and I tend to agree.
For those in the Chicago area did the ANA do much local advertising to promote the show?
During the pandemic when no one was viewing lots, you could roll the dice, buy coins based on the pictures and often be pleasantly surprised with the results.
Now with many people viewing lots, you are going to get outbid on everything nice unless you also have the confidence that comes from lot viewing.
Yes, of course! The fact remains that the lots were available for viewing in Rosemont, a few short blocks away from the convention center, for anyone who was interested.
The big change was that the auction companies learned that they don't need to have auctions onsite at the show, based on their experience last year. Knowing that, why pay for a sponsorship or onsite lot viewing, when there are hotel meeting rooms available for rent, at a fraction of the cost, up and down River Rd.?
Decent food at a reasonable price is also not available at the convention center. People find it outside the convention center. Why would lot viewing be any different, especially for people going to the show to view lots?
I didn’t notice any on the radio stations I listen to (one of which did have an ad for a mid sized local show several years ago). Of course I don’t listen to all the stations or watch many of the local tv channels, so it’s possible I missed an ad.
According to her report, no.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
It's like the SurfCon (or whateve> @Catbert said:
So no, direct, first hand experience on what she wrote on. Hmm........................
My favorite line ....
"is in hard-to-get San Deigo,"
Have to ask, why is it hard to get to San Diego?
She spelled San Diego wrong also, LMAO, maybe that is why it is hard to get here. Try the right spelling and wow it is easy to get to sunny San Diego.
Moving a national coin show to San Diego may actually be a great idea. San Diego is a destination city where people go on vacation. Probably the best climate in the USA. If you had to take a plane trip to go to a show, what does it matter if you go to Chicago or San Diego? Where would you rather land at and hang out for couple days???
So, where is Carmen San Diego? 🤔
A: The year they spend more on their library than their coin collection.
A numismatist is judged more on the content of their library than the content of their cabinet.
She's speaking relatively. Chicago is a hub. Easy to get direct flights. Only a couple hours flight from most of the Continental US.
She also wasn't picking on San Diego. She was comparing to Comic Con which happens to be in San Diego.
For me, I could day trip the ANA in Chicago. It would be a whole day of just traveling to get to San Diego.
San Diego loses out to Las Vegas and Phoenix for the same reason Boston loses out to Baltimore. The hotels are too expensive and the travel is difficult for half the country.
Nationally, San Diego also loses out to Orlando in every category: hotel prices, transportation, public safety, theme parks, and yes, beaches if you are willing to drive for an hour. Even the Surf Expo chooses Orlando!
No sales tax on coins and bullion in The Commonwealth. God bless The Commonwealth. RGDS!
** I personally am pro collector and think they should get primary consideration as without them there are no dealers.**
Chicken vs. egg argument. Without something available to collect, there are no collectors...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
If you put a major show in San Diego, it will be so poorly attended by anyone on the east coast, you’ll never make that mistake again. It is one of the hardest cities to get to, and I was disappointed that the pcgs members show was there a couple weeks ago. I rarely miss the member shows, but this one was basically in an impossible location.
From two people I heard that the last pcgs SD show was lightly attended versus a typical one in LV.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
I have never been to an ANA show and probably won't go in the near future, even though I spend a lot on coins. One of the things that could draw me in is the programming.
As someone that's attended a handful of San Diego Comic Cons and other comic shows, I can say that the main draw for me is the programming and the fan-to-fan comraderie. I personally did very little spending on comics or other goods. It is an event that can charge $25-50 and provide at least as much value in the programming.
Is it possible to create a coin convention (not show) that's driven mainly my programming, exhibits, collector clubs, and other collector-to-collector interactions?
The folks at PCGS have said many times that they think this is the direction that coin shows have to go if it can, and I tend to agree.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
If you put a major show in San Diego, it will be so poorly attended by anyone on the east coast, you’ll never make that mistake again. It is one of the hardest cities to get to, and I was disappointed that the pcgs members show was there a couple weeks ago. I rarely miss the member shows, but this one was basically in an impossible location.
+1. Getting there from South Carolina would be an all-day ordeal for me compared to a quick two-hour flight to Chicago or even less to the major cities on the East Coast.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I think it depends upon the reason someone goes to a show. I've read many accounts on coin forums by those who make it an actual vacation. For them, I think it would work because they are not there exclusively to buy coins.
I have been to seven ANA, all local to where I was at the time, including for work. I'm not spending a cent (outside of commuting expenses) or a minute of my vacation time to get to a coin show, unless I have another reason to be there. I am also only interested in the available for sale inventory, not anything else. Due to what I collect (which isn't US), there is also no need to be there more than one day.
The last few times, I have been able to arrive the first day to provide what I presume is the best opportunity to find something for my collection. I can do that in the morning and leave by lunch.
There were coin collectors long before there were dealers. I’m not sayIng dealers don’t make life easier with education and access but the coins are there to be collected with or without dealers
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Coin shows don't seem comparable to Comic Cons. It would be hard to get a lot of people to travel for coin programming as it is not as big of an attraction. There are plenty of good club meeting, talks, and exhibits already and those only get a fraction of the attention. The biggest point of a show is to be able to buy and sell coins in person.
There are plenty of Western-US-ish airline hub cities that I’d enjoy more than the suburbs of Chicago. Denver, Phoenix (not in summer), and Salt Lake City come to mind. Plenty of direct flights to almost every city in the US from any of these. Not every time, and not forever, but some sort of change would be welcome.
The spring show (ANA money show) is in Phoenix in 2023
https://www.money.org/NationalMoneyShow
Denver was within the past 10 years. Worked well enough. Long ride from the airport, but then everything is a long ride from the Denver airport. I have heard that the downtown area near the convention center has gone downhill over the past few years with a lot more homeless and drug problems.
Spring ANA will be in Phoenix next March. SLC might work, depending on the sales tax rules.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
One of the things about Denver is that there is little population base near to it. This is not a bad thing but if looking for those that might do a 4 to 6 hour drive to get to a show like ANA, then Denver has no significant population base for that. It is mostly Denver metro area.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Houston and Dallas should be in the rotation - 5 major metro areas within a few hours drive - Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin and New Orleans. No sales tax in Texas on bullion or numismatics items. Both Houston and Dallas have 2 major airports each - Bush and Hobby in Houston and Love and DFW in Dallas. Both have cheap hotels.
Give the drummer some...........