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Need Help: Rainbow 1909 Lincoln with the VDB Polished Off??

As you can see in these images, this 1909 appears to have a very faint remnant of the top of the VDB initials. But barely.

I can’t find any references or mention of acknowledged varieties and I was wondering if anyone had information on this.

At first I thought it was an 09P but as I was filling out my PCGS submission form I saw a very faint outline of what looked like the top of the VDB initials. They’re in the right place, and they do look like the tops of the letters but I’ve

I'd like my copper well done please!


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    bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,778 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 21, 2022 1:10PM

    I can faintly see the letters in the second to last pic. Almost looks like a poor engraving job to me. ????? It may come back as altered.

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    pursuitoflibertypursuitofliberty Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No info', but based on the 2nd to the last picture, I agree.

    Great looking cent too!

    “We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”

    Todd - BHNC #242
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if it was the result of the mint attempting to polish off the VDB after the decision to eliminate it was made. The tops of the letters do seem to be there. Interesting observation on your part.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks like it was polished by the mint. I would agree with @291fifth above. They probably wanted to try and use the existing die. Polishing of the initials would have resulted in the exact look that the edge of the coin has leading up to the rim.

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    dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would not be surprised if the US Mint had attempted to efface the "V.D.B." from some working dies.
    The coin shown above might be the result of such an effort. I would, however, like to see a stronger strike from such a die to be sure.

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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,795 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nice images

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2022 7:18AM

    Nice one! Kinda wonder what they would say about the "area".

    This could be a new variety.

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    FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can you weigh it?

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
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    FlyingAlFlyingAl Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree that the mint likely polished off the VDB after the order to stop striking VDBs came in. Dies were expensive to produce and the mint could save a lot of time and money by polishing off the VDB. This way, they could keep production going with very little time wasted making new dies, and they saved the expense of destroying good dies.

    A similar situation happened in 1878 with the 8TF and 7/8TF Morgan dollars. The mint took old dies and rehubbed them with the 7TF reverse and this allowed the mint to save massive amounts of time instead of creating a whole new master hub which would take weeks. The situations are very similar, and I would doubt the mint took a different approach to the same problem.

    Young Numismatist, Coin Photographer.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree, it does look like an effort to remove the VDB from the die. Great catch - I could only see it in the second to last picture though. Let us know the result of your submission. Cheers, RickO

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    PipestonePetePipestonePete Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is really a neat find. Would this possibly be deserving of an attribution or die variety or some kind?

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    CoppercolorCoppercolor Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭

    @FredWeinberg said:
    There’s a chance that the coin is a slight tapered end thin planchet.

    Notice the weakness at 12 o’clock obverse and 6 o’clock rev where the designers initials would be on the reverse- I’d say there’s A chance it’s up to 3% underweight

    Fred thank you for weighing in. I’d already sent the coin to PCGS when I saw your question so I can’t weigh it at this exact moment.

    I did, however, list it as a vdb on the submission and selected variety attribution. I wonder if that will do anything ??

    I'd like my copper well done please!
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    CoppercolorCoppercolor Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭

    Well. Pcgs just straight graded the coin with no special designation, even though I selected “variety attribution”, which means either they didn’t think anything of VDB’s condition, or they just didn’t understand the request.

    I’d love to hear any more thoughts about what I should do with it.

    I'd like my copper well done please!
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    MarkKelleyMarkKelley Posts: 1,765 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think Fred nailed it.

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coppercolor said:
    Well. Pcgs just straight graded the coin with no special designation, even though I selected “variety attribution”, which means either they didn’t think anything of VDB’s condition, or they just didn’t understand the request.

    the only 1909 VDB varieties they attribute are a couple DDO's

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    LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coppercolor said:
    Well. Pcgs just straight graded the coin with no special designation, even though I selected “variety attribution”, which means either they didn’t think anything of VDB’s condition, or they just didn’t understand the request.

    there is really only 3 things they can do once they establish if it is a vdb or not, which it appears they did:

    1. call it the 1101
    2. call it the 1102
    3. send it back with no attribution if it isn't 1 or 2 as there isn't anything else to put on the holder variety attribution or not.

    perhaps you could've gone the error route but not sure the premium would be there but it is a nice coin afterall, so maybe.

    usually errors that omit mintmarks or dates, lose premium, not gain.

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    WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A lovely cent any way you want to think of it.


    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
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    robecrobec Posts: 6,607 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can easily see the tops of all three letters in the TrueView now that we know it’s there. That is a great catch Jeff. Most wouldn’t see them.

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    DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very pretty coin.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
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    johnny010johnny010 Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any update?

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    drwstr123drwstr123 Posts: 7,028 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have one, too.
    Many a repartee across the street about it.
    All denials.

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nicely toned cent!

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    Hi.very neat . Pretty coin

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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That coin is a beast! I absolutely love that look!!!

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    ThreeCentSilverFLThreeCentSilverFL Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good thread! Very nice looking cent!

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    That's is what they call a ghost vdb....also is anyone one this page ?

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    Steven59Steven59 Posts: 8,294 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ransombobby said:
    That's is what they call a ghost vdb....also is anyone one this page ?

    Oh No! Not another "Ghost" VDB. :#
    As mentioned it looks as a taperedplanchet that didn't strike up all of the way. But a very nice looking cent.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

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    TrampTramp Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great looking Lincoln and very nice first pics! What phone or camera did you use and what settings? Thanks!

    USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maintenance Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
    My current Registry sets:
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Carson City Morgan Dollars (1878 – 1893)
    ✓ Everyman Mint State Lincoln Cents (1909 – 1958)
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    Her is one I have

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    NeophyteNumismatistNeophyteNumismatist Posts: 897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coppercolor - Your coin is lovely, very beautiful color and surface. Congrats!

    I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.

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