Need Help: Rainbow 1909 Lincoln with the VDB Polished Off??

Coppercolor · August 21, 2022 12:04PM

As you can see in these images, this 1909 appears to have a very faint remnant of the top of the VDB initials. But barely.

I can’t find any references or mention of acknowledged varieties and I was wondering if anyone had information on this.

At first I thought it was an 09P but as I was filling out my PCGS submission form I saw a very faint outline of what looked like the top of the VDB initials. They’re in the right place, and they do look like the tops of the letters but I’ve

bsshog40 · August 21, 2022 12:10PM

I can faintly see the letters in the second to last pic. Almost looks like a poor engraving job to me. ????? It may come back as altered.

pursuitofliberty · August 21, 2022 12:11PM

No info', but based on the 2nd to the last picture, I agree.

Great looking cent too!

291fifth · August 21, 2022 12:13PM

I wonder if it was the result of the mint attempting to polish off the VDB after the decision to eliminate it was made. The tops of the letters do seem to be there. Interesting observation on your part.

jtlee321 · August 21, 2022 12:21PM

It looks like it was polished by the mint. I would agree with @291fifth above. They probably wanted to try and use the existing die. Polishing of the initials would have resulted in the exact look that the edge of the coin has leading up to the rim.

dcarr · August 21, 2022 12:23PM

I would not be surprised if the US Mint had attempted to efface the "V.D.B." from some working dies.
The coin shown above might be the result of such an effort. I would, however, like to see a stronger strike from such a die to be sure.

coinkat · August 21, 2022 1:12PM

nice images

Coppercolor · August 21, 2022 1:49PM

Thank you all for your thoughts and insight so far

I’m going to submit it as a VDB to see what happens lol

oih82w8 · August 21, 2022 4:43PM

Nice one! Kinda wonder what they would say about the "area".

This could be a new variety.

FredWeinberg · August 21, 2022 4:52PM

Can you weigh it?

FlyingAl · August 21, 2022 5:36PM

I agree that the mint likely polished off the VDB after the order to stop striking VDBs came in. Dies were expensive to produce and the mint could save a lot of time and money by polishing off the VDB. This way, they could keep production going with very little time wasted making new dies, and they saved the expense of destroying good dies.

A similar situation happened in 1878 with the 8TF and 7/8TF Morgan dollars. The mint took old dies and rehubbed them with the 7TF reverse and this allowed the mint to save massive amounts of time instead of creating a whole new master hub which would take weeks. The situations are very similar, and I would doubt the mint took a different approach to the same problem.

ricko · August 22, 2022 5:49AM

I agree, it does look like an effort to remove the VDB from the die. Great catch - I could only see it in the second to last picture though. Let us know the result of your submission. Cheers, RickO

PipestonePete · August 22, 2022 5:59AM

That is really a neat find. Would this possibly be deserving of an attribution or die variety or some kind?

FredWeinberg · August 22, 2022 6:31AM

There’s a chance that the coin is a slight tapered end thin planchet.

Notice the weakness at 12 o’clock obverse and 6 o’clock rev where the designers initials would be on the reverse- I’d say there’s A chance it’s up to 3% underweight

Coppercolor · August 22, 2022 8:50PM

@FredWeinberg said:
There’s a chance that the coin is a slight tapered end thin planchet.

Notice the weakness at 12 o’clock obverse and 6 o’clock rev where the designers initials would be on the reverse- I’d say there’s A chance it’s up to 3% underweight

Fred thank you for weighing in. I’d already sent the coin to PCGS when I saw your question so I can’t weigh it at this exact moment.

I did, however, list it as a vdb on the submission and selected variety attribution. I wonder if that will do anything ??

Coppercolor · December 30, 2022 3:54PM

Well. Pcgs just straight graded the coin with no special designation, even though I selected “variety attribution”, which means either they didn’t think anything of VDB’s condition, or they just didn’t understand the request.

I’d love to hear any more thoughts about what I should do with it.

MasonG · December 30, 2022 4:08PM

I think they don't think the VDB is polished off.

@FredWeinberg said:
There’s a chance that the coin is a slight tapered end thin planchet.

Look how the inside of the rim disappears at the top of the obverse.

MarkKelley · December 30, 2022 4:10PM

I think Fred nailed it.

davewesen · December 30, 2022 4:37PM

@Coppercolor said:
Well. Pcgs just straight graded the coin with no special designation, even though I selected “variety attribution”, which means either they didn’t think anything of VDB’s condition, or they just didn’t understand the request.

the only 1909 VDB varieties they attribute are a couple DDO's

LanceNewmanOCC · December 30, 2022 4:40PM

@Coppercolor said:
Well. Pcgs just straight graded the coin with no special designation, even though I selected “variety attribution”, which means either they didn’t think anything of VDB’s condition, or they just didn’t understand the request.

.
there is really only 3 things they can do once they establish if it is a vdb or not, which it appears they did:

call it the 1101
call it the 1102
send it back with no attribution if it isn't 1 or 2 as there isn't anything else to put on the holder variety attribution or not.

perhaps you could've gone the error route but not sure the premium would be there but it is a nice coin afterall, so maybe.

usually errors that omit mintmarks or dates, lose premium, not gain.