Not an ANA show report, just some rambling

lilolme

First off I heard that Pinnacle Rarities is going to retire so to speak. So if you know them, then might consider reaching out.

Another theft? On Monday before I arrived I was told of another theft. This is the best story/rambling that I got but I can not confirm all of it. There was a theft of a case full of Rolex watches on Monday dealer day. The way that I heard it went (and again I can not confirm all of this) is that a couple of guys in apparent convention service T-shirts entered the bourse. They got a flat floor dolly with some empty cases and were going around. Sometimes dealers ask for an additional case or have an issue with a case and request a replacement. They went up to the dealers table and switched out the Rolex watches case on the dealers table with an empty case. I assume the dealer was not at the table and that they placed the Rolex watch case beneath an empty case on the dolly. They exited out a back-side door. I was told there was a convention person at the door but the people had apparent convention 'wear' on and so were not questioned when exiting with the apparent empty cases. Again this is the best story that I heard of how it happened but I can not confirm it.

There was more ramblings about the new CAC grading company. When I first heard of this I did the eye roll type thing and thought yeah sure. Then as time went on and I heard more stuff it went to wondering about it, then to a well maybe. Now with the additional ramblings it does appear to me that it will happen. But of course there could be some road blocks ahead when setting something like this up and it could fail to come about. For now it looks to be moving forward.

So with all the fake slab and coins being presented on this forum I was being observant, both looking and listening, to this. But there was nothing, zero on this at the show that I heard about or saw. Seems it is more focused on eBay or similar. Still would not discount it elsewhere but certainly not prevalent. Of course if you are that one instance, then that would be enough.

Auction lot viewing for Heritage and Stacks was about a half mile plus or so away in a hotel. I heard a couple different ramblings on why. Neither of them was a good reason to me for not having the lot viewing at the convention center or at least in a hotel across the street. Also the Great Collection table was 8 tables which includes four corner tables. It was about half empty. This is similar to Heritage and Stacks but their 8 tables were more full. Seems to be taking up space that could be used by other dealers with inventory or other. But this is the way it is and has been.

I went out walking a couple different mornings. So I used this to check out the walk time from the Hyatt to the lobby of the convention center going through the sky bridge and the other route outside. Seems the outdoors is supposed to be shorter. While I admit it did seem shorter, but it timed out to be the same and I did it twice. From Hyatt elevator to convention center lobby at ANA entrance. The outdoor route was just a little longer but 15 seconds is the same for me in this case.

Last there was a Motley Crue cover/tribute band on Thursday night about 2-3 blocks from the convention center. It was outdoors in an open area surrounded by various eating places and taverns. Of course they set up some tents with some refreshment choices. Oh and free, the concert event that is but not the refreshments. Afterwards a fireworks display. It was a good event I thought.

U1chicago

Definitely some interesting rumblings.
I also heard some dealers discussing the rolex theft on Friday as I was passing by a table.

FlyingAl

Since I have seen the CAC grading company come up more often here too now I'm interested.

What exactly do the ramblings say - is JA making a new company with only him finalizing coins or a company founded by JA that will work without his guidance?

PerryHall

It would be funny if CAC started a grading service and PCGS and NGC started stickering coins they approved of.

lilolme

@PerryHall said:
It would be funny if CAC started a grading service and PCGS and NGC started stickering coins they approved of.

I like that one.

usararecoins

"There was more ramblings about the new CAC grading company. When I first heard of this I did the eye roll type thing and thought yeah sure. Then as time went on and I heard more stuff it went to wondering about it, then to a well maybe. Now with the additional ramblings it does appear to me that it will happen."

Can you provide more detail? I have not heard of this CAC potential change / business.

291fifth

If you are going to try and pass off fake slabs this would not be the place to do it. There are just too many knowledgeable dealers and collectors around. The fakes would be spotted and would be called out as such.

justmenutty72

@PerryHall said:
It would be funny if CAC started a grading service and PCGS and NGC started stickering coins they approved of.

Touché 😝👍😎

mtn_scout

Some ramblings on your ramblings:

• I overheard two dealer talking about someone walking off with a case on Tuesday but wasn't sure if it was at this show or not. Now I have more unconfirmed details which tells me how brazen crooks are getting.
• Thank you for solving the passageway vs outside route question. As the week went on I kept thinking that just going outside the Hyatt and entering the main convention hall entrance would be a shorter walk and faster. I meant to do a test but then forgot.
• The fireworks show was pretty awesome.
• I wonder if Heritage and Stacks viewing was at the other hotel because they are no longer the "official" ANA auctioneer? What I really couldn't figure out was what the Heritage and Stacks rooms at the convention center were for. The Stacks door always seemed to be closed and the Heritage room just looked to have a bunch of tables and water in it.

coinkat

Count me in with the retirement crowd. If this crap is what some consider to be the focal point of the hobby...well... let me be bunt in that it simply write that it fails to pass the straight face test... Why is it reasonable or even appropriate to allow and provide a forum for so much of speculation that really lacks foundation to even be considered speculation??

Seems unfortunate that the actual interest in coins takes... not just a back seat...but a a seat that is not even within the discussion

skier07

@coinkat said:
Count me in with the retirement crowd. If this crap is what some consider to be the focal point of the hobby...well... let me be bunt in that it simply write that it fails to pass the straight face test... Why is it reasonable or even appropriate to allow and provide a forum for so much of speculation that really lacks foundation to even be considered speculation??

Seems unfortunate that the actual interest in coins takes... not just a back seat...but a a seat that is not even within the discussion

Doesn’t seem unreasonable to post “gossip” from the biggest coin show in the country. OP made it quite clear that he was unable to verify what he heard. I don’t think anyone considers what he posted to be the focal point of the hobby. Sounds like someone needs to lighten up a little.

BStrauss3

The event space is Parkway Bank Park - https://rosemont.com/thepark/ - awesome. Last year my hotel room looked out at the fireworks show

Kliao

I can confirm a theft on Monday. On dealer day Monday, a dealer left his booth and got his case of Rolex watches said to be worth 600k swiped. Word of the theft got to the entire floor pretty quick on Monday. I don't know if he was wearing a convention shirt or not, just that he wasn't wearing a dealer badge and somehow got in. A little later, a person I knew overheard the couple police at the front joking that "he was the one that let the guy in". A pretty big security flaw if you ask me. This is what I heard on Monday. Didn't hear much of the incident the couple days afterward.

lilolme

@coinkat said:
Count me in with the retirement crowd. If this crap is what some consider to be the focal point of the hobby...well... let me be bunt in that it simply write that it fails to pass the straight face test... Why is it reasonable or even appropriate to allow and provide a forum for so much of speculation that really lacks foundation to even be considered speculation??

Seems unfortunate that the actual interest in coins takes... not just a back seat...but a a seat that is not even within the discussion

I will go through each one.

First Pinnacle retiring is as far as I know a fact and I was just letting others know in case they wanted to contact them.

Theft - did happen, no gossip. I was letting others know who may attend to be aware. The best rambling was to let others know and to maybe protect against crime.

CAC - this is closest to gossip but I did not post any of the gossip but my opinion on if it will happen or not. CAC is very coin oriented subject and the potential for a grading company is also.

Fake slabs/coins - again no gossip. There are multiple forum subjects on it and some questioning if to keep collecting. I was letting people know I saw none of it at the ANA and that it may be more of an eBay type thing.

Auction lot viewing - no gossip, just reporting where it was and that I heard reasons why. I did not report the potential reasons why but just that I thought it could be worked out to have lot viewing at or near the convention center to avoid having to go a half mile plus or so to view. Kind of goes with potential crime.

Travel time between Hyatt and CC - no gossip but just reporting something I did as others do in there reports, like drive time and other. Letting people know it is actually the same amount of time.

Concert - no gossip and again just repotting on something I know several coin people attended. Not much different than someone reporting on lunch or dinner.

U1chicago

@lilolme your report was perfectly reasonable. It's different from many others and fills in some tidbits that no one else really touched upon. I appreciate you posting this thread.

Catbert

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0NFaQcTJsg

bignubnumismatics1

@FlyingAl said:
Since I have seen the CAC grading company come up more often here too now I'm interested.

What exactly do the ramblings say - is JA making a new company with only him finalizing coins or a company founded by JA that will work without his guidance?

From the many rumors and (probably not rumors). CAC is most likely going to start their own grading company beginning sometime next year. I’ve heard a single, new location for the HQ also in NJ. John apparently doesn’t like the AT coins entering the market and is ‘frustrated’ that people keep sending him ms-64 Mercury dimes in rattlers to get gold CACs (my bad, lol).

Other than that I think is mere speculation. I’m waiting for the new slabs to rollout and I have an unofficial bid for the first coin slabbed by the new company.

We shall see, fingers crossed though because the market will do some crazy things, lol

lilolme

@mtn_scout said:

• Thank you for solving the passageway vs outside route question. As the week went on I kept thinking that just going outside the Hyatt and entering the main convention hall entrance would be a shorter walk and faster. I meant to do a test but then forgot.

I was walking and curious and then timing it let me get some sleep that night. Now if they can get the A/C working on the one end of the tunnel.

@mtn_scout said:

• I wonder if Heritage and Stacks viewing was at the other hotel because they are no longer the "official" ANA auctioneer? What I really couldn't figure out was what the Heritage and Stacks rooms at the convention center were for. The Stacks door always seemed to be closed and the Heritage room just looked to have a bunch of tables and water in it.

Heard a couple different reasons but not sure which was correct. One thing is that these are Heritage customers, Stacks customers and ANA attendees, so it would seem that whatever the reason that they could get things worked out or spend the $ to get a more reasonable location at or adjacent to the CC for their customers or attendees.

lilolme

@291fifth said:
If you are going to try and pass off fake slabs this would not be the place to do it. There are just too many knowledgeable dealers and collectors around. The fakes would be spotted and would be called out as such.

Agree and also why I was mentioning it. As noted above when reading some of the forum post related to the 'fakes' it appears some are very taken back by the 'fakes' and I understand that. So I was letting some know of my observation and then they can make their evaluation of how to proceed. However, please still be aware of the 'fakes'.

lilolme

@BStrauss3 said:
The event space is Parkway Bank Park - https://rosemont.com/thepark/ - awesome. Last year my hotel room looked out at the fireworks show

I missed it last year (I think I remember someone telling me it was Pink Floyd cover/tribute?) but it sounds like you missed the concert 'music / noise' from your hotel room.

ricko

That is a major theft of those Rolex watches..... Very surprised at the lax security. Cheers, RickO

lilolme

@ricko said:
That is a major theft of those Rolex watches..... Very surprised at the lax security. Cheers, RickO

Agree but it seems that thefts / crime at or near or related to coin shows is getting more prevalent. Perhaps it is that it is getting reported more but to me it seems that the occurrence rate is up.

winesteven

Yes, this is the second major theft at a major coin show this year. At least it’s known how this happened, so security teams around the country can potentially learn from it, and then better train their security staff.

However, mum’s been the word on HOW the theft took place at Winter Long Beach 2022 from the bourse during the night. For those that hadn’t heard, apparently in the middle of the night crooks busted open a locked case on the bourse with gold jewelry and other valuables, despite supposed security on site. It would help security teams across the country in other venues learn, if it can be disclosed how that happened. But if it was “an inside job” and the investigation is still active and ongoing, I understand why certain information is not being shared at this point.

Steve

Zoins

Will Pinnacle be passed on to someone else?

It seems like it's just Kathleen and Dan from their website:

https://www.pinnacle-rarities.com/staff

lilolme

@winesteven said:
Yes, this is the second major theft at a major coin show this year. At least it’s known how this happened, so security teams around the country can potentially learn from it, and then better train their security staff.

However, mum’s been the word on HOW the theft took place at Winter Long Beach 2022 from the bourse during the night. For those that hadn’t heard, apparently in the middle of the night crooks busted open a locked case on the bourse with gold jewelry and other valuables, despite supposed security on site. It would help security teams across the country in other venues learn, if it can be disclosed how that happened. But if it was “an inside job” and the investigation is still active and ongoing, I understand why certain information is not being shared at this point.

Steve

On the LB theft there was some additional information or rumor, I don't know which so will not mention, but if true it would make it more likely that it was an inside job. Either way both of these thefts indicate that it is not necessarily safe to leave material in a locked case on your table (day or night). But perhaps one should decide for themselves just how far to take these incidences and what to do, if anything extra, to protect against it.

oih82w8

I am not knowledgeable on Rolex watches, but I believe that the movements/cases/watch bands have s/n for registration purposes. Then again, shady dealings are bound to happen with these types of high-end watches.

lilolme

@oih82w8 said:
I am not knowledgeable on Rolex watches, but I believe that the movements/cases/watch bands have s/n for registration purposes. Then again, shady dealings are bound to happen with these types of high-end watches.

My understanding, but not actual knowledge of, is that these are often shipped out of the country where it is much easier to 'deal' them away.

winesteven

@lilolme said:
On the LB theft there was some additional information or rumor, I don't know which so will not mention, but if true it would make it more likely that it was an inside job. Either way both of these thefts indicate that it is not necessarily safe to leave material in a locked case on your table (day or night). But perhaps one should decide for themselves just how far to take these incidences and what to do, if anything extra, to protect against it.

This suggestion to not leave valuables in cases overnight, while excellent, cannot work for Exhibitors. I’m going to exhibit at Winter FUN January 2023 in Orlando. Exhibitors are REQUIRED to leave everything in every case from the time the case is locked after initial set up through very close to the end of the show.

I don’t want to discuss specifics, but I discussed my concern about the Long Beach theft with the FUN Exhibit Chairman, and I was comforted by what I was told regarding the security procedures at FUN.

Steve