Day 1 ANA Rant

Coinosaurus

Drive over to Loew's hotel for lot viewing. Accessing the Rosemont area from the northern suburbs is most circuitous. One takes I-294 to I-190 west (toward the airport), reverses direction on I-190 by taking the Mannheim south exit and curving around the cloverleaf to I-190 east, at which time River Road is accessible.

The hotel parking is ridiculously priced at $31. Whatever. I head in to the garage and quickly learn that floors 1-4 are reserved. When you get to floor 5, THERE ARE NO PARKING SPACES. It's like on that episode of the SImpson's where Homer buys $1,100 worth of Itchy and Scratchy money, and enters the amusement park only to be greeted with multiple "we don't accept Itchy and Scratchy money" signs. After awhlie I eye a spot, and the person coming from the other direction also does, and attempts to back in even though I am much closer. I kind of pysch them out and zip in. If that was you I apologize. Problem one solved.

Stack's lot viewing is going swimmingly, love those Fairmont coins, when a coin pal calls and asks for unloading help at the convention center. I walk across River Road, the first of many times for the week, and nearly get obliterated out by the oncoming traffic. Rosemont is anything but walkable. Finish unloading into the security room, where three people will be sleeping overnight, and walk back to lot viewing (again dodging traffic), which is conveniently located right next to Heritage lot viewing. The Bender coins are just sick. They will sell for a lot! I look through the Heritage $10 gold pieces, which is a real eye opener after looking at Fairmont coins.

While waiting for one of my coin friends to finish viewing lots i have a chat with one of the CAC guys in the lobby. Always enlightening.

After that it's over to Malnatti's in Elk Grove Village for pizza with coin friends, which is ten times better than any of those expense account places around the convention center. All in all a good day. Back at it Tuesday.

ElKevvo

@Coinosaurus said:

It's like on that episode of the SImpson's where Homer buys $1,100 worth of Itchy and Scratchy money, and enters the amusement park only to be greeted with multiple "we don't accept Itchy and Scratchy money" signs.

That's funny!

K

coinbuf

I was expecting a much better rant, too mild.

Paradisefound

@Coinosaurus looking forward to see some pictures ☺️
Have fun!

spacehayduke

Fun report! Couldn't you use the elevated walkway from the hotels to the CC to avoid that crazy road between?

messydesk

@spacehayduke said:
Fun report! Couldn't you use the elevated walkway from the hotels to the CC to avoid that crazy road between?

Loews is a little down the road from the CC parking garage, hence the game of Frogger crossing River Rd.

mtn_scout

Why was crossing River Road near the Loews so horrible? I did it a few times yesterday and there are numerous crosswalks. I had no trouble crossing at the crosswalks when the person was illuminated 'white'.

Jzyskowski1

I want to make a little humor but I’m afraid to get it trouble. 😉🙀🦫

oih82w8

@coinasaurus
"While waiting for one of my coin friends to finish viewing lots i have a chat with one of the CAC guys in the lobby. Always enlightening."

CAC is closed this week for "vacation". Are you saying that they are there at the ANA this week? ...or just by coincidence? 🤔

Walkerguy21D

$31 for parking?
Did you counter or ask for a best price?

oih82w8

Did you tell the parking attendant that it's a "used parking garage" and you're looking for a discount.

airplanenut

To add some video to this thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-6IzkDyl9Q

Hydrant

Coinasaurus, as bad as the Rosemont experience was for you, it's the same or even worse for the dealers at the show.... I'm sure of it. I have done many trade shows at that venue,....not coins. I made a profit but the stealth parking lot price gouging by the hotels is just the tip of the iceberg. That whole area, Rosemont, is just corrupt...... The final straw was when my credit card info was hacked by the hotel for big bucks, credit purchases at multiple stores in Rosemont, insane charges for parking, food purchases that I never made etc., when I checked out of the hotel which was adjacent to the convention center, and then the Illinois Tax Department ripping me off because I didn't dot the I's and cross all the T's correctly.......Man, that place is the worst! I'm never going back!.......But!........I did find a little Italian hole- in -the -wall joint in the neighborhood with the best pizza, and lasagna that I ever had!.......Maybe it was worth it after all!

P.S. The spaghetti and meatballs were good too. But not as good as Momma Luigino's. I miss her......R.I.P.

Maywood

With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

Project Numismatics

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Hydrant

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

JimTyler

You can park at the train station for a few bucks. Little longer walk.

spacehayduke

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I don't know because when I have gone to the ANA show at Rosemont I have had a great time. I assume others did too. I have been to 2 ANA's there. Each time I fly into OHare take the L a short distance to Rosemont and everything is within walking distance (hotels, restaurants). My experience with the restaurants in Rose has been fine, even a brew pub that was fine. BC of being adjacent to OHare it is very convenient. Like any tourist area, it can be pricey, but if you are there w/o a car, it is fine.

Best, SH

pcgscacgold

I paid $10 last year and was not far at all and no streets to cross (all inside walking along skywalks).

The Central States show is not in Rosemont. It is in Schaumburg, IL. Not a far but not the same city. It is nice having a show in the Midwest since the South, East and West all have multiple shows through out the year.

skier07

What are CAC guys doing at a show unless they’re incognito?

airplanenut

@Hydrant said:

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

I can see arguments for hosting the show at different cities, but I don't see the show being held somewhere where the majority of attendees can't get a nonstop flight. Yes, some folks live in smaller towns where the only flights available are to the nearest two or three medium/big cities, but most people in the US can get a nonstop to Chicago or other major host cities. The difference is choosing to live somewhere where you know there are few nonstops versus a venue where there are few nonstops. That may be a good option for a regional show, but I don't see it for a national show.

MFeld

@Hydrant said:

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

It’s not that the promoters are “mesmerized….. by BIG CITY LOCATION”.
Several years ago, I was on a committee that looked into possible venues and promotional ideas for the ANA shows. I quickly learned that the options were far fewer than most people realize. Roadblocks to more location options included the relatively small size of the ANA convention (which make it difficult to obtain favorable concessions from convention centers and hotels), local tax issues and requirement for convenient flights. There were others, too. Bottom line - the list of good, realistic options was extremely short.

Hydrant

@spacehayduke said:

......... being adjacent to OHare it is very convenient. Like any tourist area, it can be pricey, but if you are there w/o a car, it is fine.

All good points Spacey.......no argument here....

FlyingAl

Denver seems like a good option. That's all I have to say...

joeykoins

My only Rant...
I don't arrive 'til Wednesday!

Yep, my first day is Wednesday.
The anticipation is BUILDING!

spacehayduke

@FlyingAl said:
Denver seems like a good option. That's all I have to say...

I went to an ANA in downtown Denver. Loved it. They have light rail to the airport way out of town, IIRC, it was something like $5 to take into downtown. Hotels and a plethora of restaurant choices too.

Best, SH

jkrk

I had a dream.....

I wanted to attend the ANA coin convention. I arranged a last minute flight. Rented a car. Went for any hotel room that was available. Ate at the most expensive places I could imagine.

Finally... I made it to the convention facility... and then over a loudspeaker I hear, "sorry but all the coins have been sold out",

I thought it was a bad dream but my wife told me the bank said it was a good dream.

Pnies20

@spacehayduke said:

@FlyingAl said:
Denver seems like a good option. That's all I have to say...

I went to an ANA in downtown Denver. Loved it. They have light rail to the airport way out of town, IIRC, it was something like $5 to take into downtown. Hotels and a plethora of restaurant choices too.

Best, SH

I wish Nashville had more coin collectors. It’s such a great city for something like that with a brand new convention center.

MasonG

@Hydrant said:
A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc.

That doesn't work for dealers who are carrying coins with them since they can't put them in their checkin baggage. The smaller regional planes don't allow carryon bags as large as you can take on bigger jets.

logger7

I thought it was last week, I was wondering where the reports were, thanks for sharing. Will check out the CRO reports.

MasonG

Another thought on the "connecting flight" idea- If you don't like dealers leaving the show early on the last day, well...

mavs2583

@MFeld said:

@Hydrant said:

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

It’s not that the promoters are “mesmerized….. by BIG CITY LOCATION”.
Several years ago, I was on a committee that looked into possible venues and promotional ideas for the ANA shows. I quickly learned that the options were far fewer than most people realize. Roadblocks to more location options included the relatively small size of the ANA convention (which make it difficult to obtain favorable concessions from convention centers and hotels), local tax issues and requirement for convenient flights. There were others, too. Bottom line - the list of good, realistic options was extremely short.

Curious if you would happen to know why there aren't any major U.S. coinage shows in New York City.

CaptHenway

@spacehayduke said:

@FlyingAl said:
Denver seems like a good option. That's all I have to say...

I went to an ANA in downtown Denver. Loved it. They have light rail to the airport way out of town, IIRC, it was something like $5 to take into downtown. Hotels and a plethora of restaurant choices too.

Best, SH

Please come back to Denver.

MFeld

@mavs2583 said:

@MFeld said:

@Hydrant said:

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

It’s not that the promoters are “mesmerized….. by BIG CITY LOCATION”.
Several years ago, I was on a committee that looked into possible venues and promotional ideas for the ANA shows. I quickly learned that the options were far fewer than most people realize. Roadblocks to more location options included the relatively small size of the ANA convention (which make it difficult to obtain favorable concessions from convention centers and hotels), local tax issues and requirement for convenient flights. There were others, too. Bottom line - the list of good, realistic options was extremely short.

Curious if you would happen to know why there aren't any major U.S. coinage shows in New York City.

I believe that the last ANA show there was 20 years ago. I’m extremely confident that NYC has been considered since then, but I’m sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question.

logger7

I remember the ANA in the late 90s in NYC, also in Boston 10 or so years ago.

mtn_scout

I remember reading when it was announced in Denver a ton of people started complaining. I get the complaints about parking fees but when you are parking at any convention center it is going to be $$$$. Heck the Broadmoor usually offers hourly parking but at the ANA show in February they were charging a flat rate like you were going to be there for 10 hrs.

mavs2583

@MFeld said:

@mavs2583 said:

@MFeld said:

@Hydrant said:

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

It’s not that the promoters are “mesmerized….. by BIG CITY LOCATION”.
Several years ago, I was on a committee that looked into possible venues and promotional ideas for the ANA shows. I quickly learned that the options were far fewer than most people realize. Roadblocks to more location options included the relatively small size of the ANA convention (which make it difficult to obtain favorable concessions from convention centers and hotels), local tax issues and requirement for convenient flights. There were others, too. Bottom line - the list of good, realistic options was extremely short.

Curious if you would happen to know why there aren't any major U.S. coinage shows in New York City.

I believe that the last ANA show there was 20 years ago. I’m extremely confident that NYC has been considered since then, but I’m sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question.

Thanks for the reply. It does give me hope that one day they'll be back in NY. It seems like a lot of the big shows tend to go to the same places almost every year. I'm also a collector of sports memorabilia and like that they rotate their big summer show to different cities. With online shopping so prevalent now, it's hard for many collectors to justify the cost of flying/hotel before even buying a single coin.

MasonG

@mavs2583 said:
With online shopping so prevalent now, it's hard for many collectors to justify the cost of flying/hotel before even buying a single coin.

NY is not exactly a low-cost destination.

Just sayin'.

mavs2583

@MasonG said:

@mavs2583 said:
With online shopping so prevalent now, it's hard for many collectors to justify the cost of flying/hotel before even buying a single coin.

NY is not exactly a low-cost destination.

Just sayin'.

Definitely not. What I mean is that I wonder if there are a lot of collectors who never go to a show because they are not within driving distance and would go to a show if they knew that once every 6 years they go to one in their area. There's lots of big cities to explore. I'm curious which cities were considered and are an absolute no-no.

Hydrant

@FlyingAl said:
Denver seems like a good option. That's all I have to say...

Yes, I agree. The World Trade Center there is a wonderful convention venue and lots of side trips available for attendees.......like the mountains..... or even better.....THE MINT! Perfect!

edwardjulio

@coinasaurus
"While waiting for one of my coin friends to finish viewing lots i have a chat with one of the CAC guys in the lobby. Always enlightening."

CAC is closed this week for "vacation". Are you saying that they are there at the ANA this week? ...or just by coincidence? 🤔

coinosaurus might be talking about njcoincrank. He usually attends the WFOM.

PhillyJoe

I understand the thought process in scheduling a convention at a central location that has direct flights from almost everywhere, but you are drawing from the same visitors year after year. It’s great for everyone who lives within a few hours’ drive of Chicago, but it’s nothing special to local collectors when the show is there every year. If you look at the history of the ANA WFOM locations, repeats never happened until recently. For every repeat in Chicago, collectors in Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, etc have to wait and hope.
That said, the Chicago ANA WFOM will be in Pittsburgh next year.

Catbert

@mavs2583 said:

@MFeld said:

@mavs2583 said:

@MFeld said:

@Hydrant said:

@J2035 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

I’ve been wondering that for a long time! Would like to see ANA move around a bit more though I understand that using a repeat location can make it easier on attendees and cheaper for organizers.

Paducah, Kentucky..... Trade show paradise. Great lodging at a fair price, friendly people, the food is as good and better than anywhere, all the amenities, good convention center, centrally located....the crowd shows up, prices are relatively inexpensive, A local airport that has shuttle flight service from St. Louis, Chicago, etc. Oh, Well.......bottom line IMO,.....the promoters are mesmerized by ......"BIG CITY LOCATION. "........The rest of the details are of secondary concern.

It’s not that the promoters are “mesmerized….. by BIG CITY LOCATION”.
Several years ago, I was on a committee that looked into possible venues and promotional ideas for the ANA shows. I quickly learned that the options were far fewer than most people realize. Roadblocks to more location options included the relatively small size of the ANA convention (which make it difficult to obtain favorable concessions from convention centers and hotels), local tax issues and requirement for convenient flights. There were others, too. Bottom line - the list of good, realistic options was extremely short.

Curious if you would happen to know why there aren't any major U.S. coinage shows in New York City.

I believe that the last ANA show there was 20 years ago. I’m extremely confident that NYC has been considered since then, but I’m sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question.

Thanks for the reply. It does give me hope that one day they'll be back in NY. It seems like a lot of the big shows tend to go to the same places almost every year. I'm also a collector of sports memorabilia and like that they rotate their big summer show to different cities. With online shopping so prevalent now, it's hard for many collectors to justify the cost of flying/hotel before even buying a single coin.

Well, one advantage that show organizers should consider with NYC would be the potential benefit of prying @ricko from upstate NY to attend. Think of how many board members would kill to meet (edited to correct misspelling) the blast white guru!

From someone who does air travel to big shows on occasion, I don't find NYC to be desirable. Can't imagine walking around downtown with cash/rare coins in my bag given the crime element prevalent there.

BStrauss3

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

The same answer as always ... there are several conditions for the ANA show, the most important is that the venue has to want the ANA. As shows go, ANA is a lousy show. There aren't a lot of big-money banquets. People book the cheapest room or sleep three to a bed in the no-tell-motel down the street. If ANA wasn't a little flexible with dates and scheduling in the quiet part of the summer, we couldn't even do Rosemont.

Other conditions are air access - a lot of dealers fly in, so it needs to be an airport with direct mainline jet service to major cities and hubs.

There is a strong preference for locations that do not impose sales taxes on numismatic items.

Also a dislike of convention properties with strong union rules. It's expensive enough for a dealer to buy a table. If they had to pay $50 to put down their own carpet and $30 to plug in their own lamps (each)...

Edit to add: The then ANA Convention Manager did a Q&A in a thread here, maybe 4 years back... I'm to lazy to try to find it.

pruebas

@BStrauss3 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

The same answer as always ... there are several conditions for the ANA show, the most important is that the venue has to want the ANA. As shows go, ANA is a lousy show. There aren't a lot of big-money banquets. People book the cheapest room or sleep three to a bed in the no-tell-motel down the street. If ANA wasn't a little flexible with dates and scheduling in the quiet part of the summer, we couldn't even do Rosemont.

Other conditions are air access - a lot of dealers fly in, so it needs to be an airport with direct mainline jet service to major cities and hubs.

There is a strong preference for locations that do not impose sales taxes on numismatic items.

Also a dislike of convention properties with strong union rules. It's expensive enough for a dealer to buy a table. If they had to pay $50 to put down their own carpet and $30 to plug in their own lamps (each)...

I think it’s high time the ANA relax some of their “requirements” to allow some variety in the venue. Complainers (yes, even dealers) be damned.

MFeld

@pruebas said:

@BStrauss3 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

The same answer as always ... there are several conditions for the ANA show, the most important is that the venue has to want the ANA. As shows go, ANA is a lousy show. There aren't a lot of big-money banquets. People book the cheapest room or sleep three to a bed in the no-tell-motel down the street. If ANA wasn't a little flexible with dates and scheduling in the quiet part of the summer, we couldn't even do Rosemont.

Other conditions are air access - a lot of dealers fly in, so it needs to be an airport with direct mainline jet service to major cities and hubs.

There is a strong preference for locations that do not impose sales taxes on numismatic items.

Also a dislike of convention properties with strong union rules. It's expensive enough for a dealer to buy a table. If they had to pay $50 to put down their own carpet and $30 to plug in their own lamps (each)...

I think it’s high time the ANA relax some of their “requirements” to allow some variety in the venue. Complainers (yes, even dealers) be damned.

What “requirements” do you think should be relaxed? Start opting for locations where local sales tax is charged? Where there’s no direct air access? Where there are strong union rules? Any of those relaxed requirements would result in a lot more complainers to “be damned”.

MasonG

Regarding these shows...

How much does the ANA collect from collectors for admission fees?
How much does the ANA collect from dealers for table fees?

FlyingAl

@MFeld said:

@pruebas said:

@BStrauss3 said:

@Maywood said:
With so many complaints about Rosemont why doesn't anyone seem to mind that it's the de facto home for Central States and the chosen location for an ANA show?? There has to better locations.

The same answer as always ... there are several conditions for the ANA show, the most important is that the venue has to want the ANA. As shows go, ANA is a lousy show. There aren't a lot of big-money banquets. People book the cheapest room or sleep three to a bed in the no-tell-motel down the street. If ANA wasn't a little flexible with dates and scheduling in the quiet part of the summer, we couldn't even do Rosemont.

Other conditions are air access - a lot of dealers fly in, so it needs to be an airport with direct mainline jet service to major cities and hubs.

There is a strong preference for locations that do not impose sales taxes on numismatic items.

Also a dislike of convention properties with strong union rules. It's expensive enough for a dealer to buy a table. If they had to pay $50 to put down their own carpet and $30 to plug in their own lamps (each)...

I think it’s high time the ANA relax some of their “requirements” to allow some variety in the venue. Complainers (yes, even dealers) be damned.

What “requirements” do you think should be relaxed? Start opting for locations where local sales tax is charged? Where there’s no direct air access? Where there are strong union rules? Any of those relaxed requirements would result in a lot more complainers to “be damned”.

Anywhere not in Illinois would be my suggestion. It almost seems like that's been a requirement since I joined the ANA in 2019.

winesteven

@MasonG said:
NY is not exactly a low-cost destination.

Just sayin'.

@Catbert said:
From someone who does air travel to big shows on occasion, I don't find NYC to be desirable. Can't imagine walking around downtown with cash/rare coins in my bag given the crime element prevalent there.

I would not feel safe walking or taking the subway in NYC, at least the way things are now, which started a few years ago. I hope things change for the better, but I’m not optimistic.

Steve