GTG 1872 Seated dollar GRADE REVEALED
2windy2fish
Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭✭
The holder notes “Rim repaired, unc details” i missed it as well, on the reverse above the motto…extremely flashy coin, no rub and the few marks/bumps are less noticeable in hand..
5
Comments
63
65+
Mr_Spud
Me thinks 63 as well.
I hate judging a coin from a true view. I’m going with MS60ish. I see some pretty bad hits on her arm. Her cheek has a big hit too.
PR65
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Don
63
Collector
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Beautiful toning which is covering the many nicks well. Love the coin and would offer a 63 as to grade.
Jim
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I’d generally just go with whatever @Crusty says as this is his field, but I think the eye appeal bumps it up to 62/shot 63.
63?
Thanks for the kind words. But I’m a much better at grading circulated SLDs then I am at MS. In the true view I don’t see any rub so I went with MS but the arm hits are hard to ignore. I could see the nice color getting her up to 61 and on a good day 62… But I grade her a 60.
For a number of reasons (including the unusual color and the lighter colored central portion of the obverse portrait), this seems like an especially tough GTG, but I’ll go with MS64.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
My gut says 62, maybe 63. Attractive color if the TV is true to in-hand
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Todd - BHNC #242
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I have no idea about this coin so based on what I've learned about others, I can't tell if the bird on the fevers and the starts on the front are wear or weak strike. If it's wear I'd have to go au58, if it's a weak strike I'd probably be somewhere around 62 or 63. The eye appeal could carry it up a notch tho? 64 at best imo.
Any way you slice it its a very nice coin! Congrats!
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I’m going with UNC Details Cleaned. I agree this is a tough one, and one of those GTGs where you want to see the coin in hand.
Coin Photographer.
If the coin received a details grade - which, even though I guessed MS64, wouldn’t really surprise me - I think it could just as easily be for questionable color. It will be interesting to see the reveal.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think I would go with questionable color if it's a details grade...especially if it's been graded in the last year or 2.
@amwldcoin if it's questionable color, it's still eye catching!
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that is possible as well. i'm not sure i really think it is cleaned, just that the popular method of imaging monster toned coins is to over-expose them which makes untoned areas look cleaned/polished sometimes (to me), even on ms63-65 coins as it really exaggerates any minor or major surface contact/issues.
a while back i came to the conclusion, we are just guessing at pictures, not matter how good we are or how good the pictures are, we will NEVER be able to see key components to always making a fair assessment so as of late, i've just been throwing out guesses based on what the pics look like, not as much what may actually be, so if i am right ok, if i am wrong ok.
i enjoy the gtg a lot and it is fun to see how people interpret the images presented!
Well said. All we can do is guess, based upon the images provided. That’s why I’ve said on occasion that you can guess “right” but still be wrong or guess “wrong”, but still be right.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Guessing it's in a 63 holder, bumped up a point for the eye appeal.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
I'd probably give it a 62.
I can see the color coming from long term storage in an album.
Technically I grade it 58. It has been "circulated" to pick up that many marks and a little rub. I grade lots of coins 58 that are in unc holders though.
One concern I have regarding the color is the lighter obverse periphery and darker central portion. Typically, an original toned album coin will display the opposite pattern.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Apologies! First time editing a post…should have edited the title then added the pic….:(
interesting result!
Guesses ranged from AU58 (albeit with a disclaimer) to 65+, to Proof, to “cleaned” to “questionable color” and quite understandably, no one guessed correctly. 😄
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I decided not to guess because I couldn't tell what was going on with that coin from the true view, but I never would have thought damage.
I still think it's an attractive coin though.
It would look wonderful in my 7070 album!
Moral for me: always look at the rims, I've known seasoned dealers who didn't to their chagrin when they get the coin back in a problem holder.
I've caught myself looking at the rim at the last second before hitting the buy button a couple times... Saved my bacon a couple times already.
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TrueView glamour shot wins again.
A rather subtle defect, and a nice looking coin. I'll claim partial credit for guessing MS!
Hard to tell from the truview pics. How was the rim repaired, do they mean it was smoothed down?
Yes, if you look just below the motto you will notice the rim smoothed a bit..
I did not notice it!
Although I enjoy GTG's, I've been saying this for years.
We are just guessing at the grade using images, we will NEVER be able to see key components to accurately and consistantly make fair assessments.
That's true. However, such threads can still serve as good learning tools, through informed observations and discussions about cleaning, artificial toning, alterations, wear vs. weakness in strike, luster, deductions for flaws, etc.
Additionally, often, forum members can point out important details and considerations that others might have missed.
I think each of us can learn from some of these threads.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree, unfortunately there are a few members who lack humility and project a know it all attitude.
It's easy for experienced numismatists to ignore them, but novices are sometimes fooled and should proceed with caution.
You guys have pointed out things about some of my own coins I overlooked and have learned a lot personally from my own GTG threads as well as looking at some others. I am able to use these experiences to better critically look at details... like the rim in this case. I rarely look at the rim, but have begun to look more closely at them. I've heard them called the "third side" of the coin that often gets overlooked.
https://www.the4thcoin.com
https://www.ebay.com/str/thefourthcoin
It looks like the problem area of the rim is toned the same as the rest of the coin...
Does this mean that the coin was an old repair and retone, or a newer repair and then AT?
It's all about what the people want...
The coin looks AT'd to me....repair was the worser of the 2 evils!
I’ll admit why I called it cleaned - I’ve seen a few TrueViews like this where the fields look mildly polished that have been graded cleaned. I thought that was my best shot given that I really didn’t think the fields looked untouched.
Coin Photographer.
LOL…. Cautioning novices from being fooled and telling them to proceed with caution. That’s rich!
There is indeed a need for caution. I have a couple regrets in this hobby and one of them was paying up for problem coins in straight graded holders (that I was told were PQ) from someone who portrayed himself as an "SLD mentor". This was before I knew anything about surfaces. Forum rules prevent me from putting his name out here publicly but let’s just say "The self proclaimed SLD specialist". This shark took advantage of my lack of knowledge and sold me a polished 1859p, a lacquered 1853p, a Misidentified proof 1864 and a PVCd 1840. Also… Thank God I passed on the corroded 1859s $. Only to find out a couple years later that he stuck another new SLD collector with it. Another jack ass thing he likes to pull is the combo deal. Selling one coin you need and want only if you buy this POS coin you don’t want. And of course paying up for both coins because he assures you how nice they are. I paid my ”tuition” directly to this jerk and I’m not the only one. Through networking I’ve done over the years I’ve met several others who were burned the same way I was from this clown. And several dealers who have since told me they have heard all about him. So definitely keep your guard up guys!
Novices- The way to avoid things like this from happening to you is to learn before you jump in. That was something I should have done and would do differently if I could go back in time. If you don’t have experience with surfaces then focus on CAC coins. It’s not perfect but we’ll worth the premium. Especially if your going to pay up for a non CAC coin. Just wait for a CAC example to come up and compare it to others that are not CAC. This advice is especially important in the SLD series.
I would have said AT
I didnt play on this one, but that's what I was thinking as well.
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On 10/6/2019 Brett closed Crusty's thread saying "Locking post as we're headed towards rule #2 violation on our guidelines."
It's sad that Crusty couldn't resist attacking me once again. It's funny how he regurgitates many things that I taught him.
I'm proud of the dollars I sold him and he will do very well if and when he decides to sell them.
I won't stoop to name calling, if your interested in the truth take a look at my response on 10/19/2019.
I'll take the high road.
😂 Me and Brett PMd about that thread. Brett closed it because somebody requested it and it was getting testy. But he left the thread available in the archives and didn’t delete it because he knew people could learn from it and no rules were broken. We have all taken our losses on the coins you sold us and learned valuable lessons from them. If it was just one collector that got screwed then it would be one thing. But I know a handful personally. Your well known after the last collector you screwed. Do you really want me to name names? I’ll let this rest now. Don’t want you crying to the moderators again!
If the coins were PCGS graded, I don’t understand why you apparently place most or all of the blame on the seller and not the grading company. That aside, while I’m sorry you feel you were taken advantage of, your comments are violating the posted forum rules and guidelines.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld - I never named anyone. I now know what coins to avoid no matter what slab it’s in. I will let it rest to avoid another closed thread. Apologies to the OP for taking the thread off course.
I'm neutral here.
Personally, I think you have been influenced by other folks likes and dislikes. CAC comes to mind. Your war shouldn't be against anyone but PCGS! Everyone has different tastes in coins. You have pointed that out discreetly in my Seated Dollar thread. If these coins were so bad, why didn't you approach PCGS about a grade guarantee? I read through the old thread, and I think you were expecting a bit much from a fellow collector. Just my humble opinion.