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More rare than pattern or error - an error pattern! Off-Center Gobrecht Braided Hair Small Cent!

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 6, 2022 12:57PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Patterns are rare but even more rare than patterns are error patterns!

Here's an off center Gobrecht Braided Hair Small Cent!

I found this on USPatterns.com here.

https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j149p178.html

Anyone know any history on, or pedigree of, this coin?

Photos of this off center pattern are from American Numismatic Rarities.

Are there other error patterns?

An interesting thought is that our first circulating small cent was the Flying Eagle Cent, but what if it weren't?

Here's a full strike of the Braided Hair Small Cent from Christian Gobrecht. The denticles on the reverse are interesting and it looks like it's double struck.

Here's a quarter eagle for comparison:

And the released Braided Hair Large Cent for comparison:

Comments

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2022 1:40PM

    In searching for other error patterns, I came across this article:

    "Mint Errors Mistaken For Patterns" by Saul Teichman of USPatterns.com on MintErrorNews

    But, for this thread, it'd be great to see "unmistakable" errors of patterns :)

  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. Really neat pattern error.

    I did a little research and did come up with a couple uncompleted Heritage auctions for the coin where it did not sell for the reserve of $27k in January of 2006. And again, in August of 2006 where it did not sell for the lowered reserve price of $14k.

    The HA listing does also show that sold in 1940: Ex. Barney Bluestone Sale (June 1940), lot 508.

    The January 2006 listing

    The August 2006 listing

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  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Actually, I had not even thought of pattern error coins... Very interesting. Cheers, RickO

  • 1madman1madman Posts: 1,124 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Would this fall into the category of a white elephant coin?

  • GoldenEggGoldenEgg Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Many pattern coins were double struck with rotation between strikes. You see it over and over across the 19th century.

    Since many of these were for presentation to officials and struck for collectors, it would make sense that they were struck more than once.

  • WilliamFWilliamF Posts: 832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting that the Braided hair design for the small cent is so different than the one for the large cent, small cent design looks more like the design you find on the gold pieces.

    ."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817

  • ByersByers Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, there are quite a few double struck and rotated.

    Much rarer are the off metals as MINT ERRORS!


    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2022 10:09AM

    @Byers said:
    Yes, there are quite a few double struck and rotated.

    Much rarer are the off metals as MINT ERRORS!


    Very nice wrong planchet size error!

    Given how many intentional wrong planchet patterns there, wrong planchets by themselves aren't that unusual. It has to be a wrong SIZE planchet error!

    Here's the article and text from MikeByers.com:

    https://mikebyers.com/30934495.html

    It says that this may be on a 3C or 1C planchet. The interesting thing is that a 3CN and a LS10C have the same diameter 17.9mm. An IHC has a diameter of 19.05mm.

    Also very interesting, this is pedigreed to Simpson but does not have the Simpson insert, so it may have been sold before the big sales on Heritage.

    @Byers said:
    This is a unique and spectacular mint error, a proof pattern off-metal. It was struck on a copper nickel planchet instead of a silver planchet. It's composition is 76% Cu and 24% Ni, which is copper-nickel. It weighs .99 grams. PCGS certified it Proof-65.

    It is the only known copper-nickel Standard Silver Dime in the entire 1869-1870 series, from Judd #837 through Judd #872. The official Standard Silver Dimes were struck in silver, copper and aluminum.

    USPatterns.com states that it is unique and was struck on misrolled nickel 3¢ planchet stock, or on the 1¢ stock for the 1869 pattern cent in copper nickel, Judd #669.

    This unique proof off-metal U.S. pattern struck in copper nickel was in the world-famous Simpson Pattern Collection. It belongs in a major U.S. Mint Error collection or a U.S. Pattern collection and is one of the most fascinating proof pattern mint errors known.

  • retirednowretirednow Posts: 391 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Patterns are rare but even more rare than patterns are error patterns!

    A great topic for discussion ... and appears many thoughtful replies. Very informative and educational with the responses and thanks for the extra links

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,042 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow! I can't remember seeing an error pattern before, but then again, I don't collect patterns very much. I have only one true pattern in my collection. It's an 1836 gold dollar. The other two have been called patterns, but aren't. They are the 1792 half disme and the 1836 original strike of the Gobrecht Dollar.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • retirednowretirednow Posts: 391 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoldenEgg said:
    Many pattern coins were double struck with rotation between strikes. You see it over and over across the 19th century.

    Since many of these were for presentation to officials and struck for collectors, it would make sense that they were struck more than once.


    this is my J-1011

    Appears that the reverse die rotated a few degrees clockwise between the two blows, leaving all the legends and devices of the first impression as a faint remnant just to the left of the dominant strike.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 6, 2022 12:54PM

    @Kliao said:
    Wow. Really neat pattern error.

    I did a little research and did come up with a couple uncompleted Heritage auctions for the coin where it did not sell for the reserve of $27k in January of 2006. And again, in August of 2006 where it did not sell for the lowered reserve price of $14k.

    The HA listing does also show that sold in 1940: Ex. Barney Bluestone Sale (June 1940), lot 508.

    The January 2006 listing

    The August 2006 listing

    Great finds!

    From this March 8, 2005 sale, the following pedigree is known:

    1. Hogan Pond Collection. Purchased from Barney Bluestone's sale of June 1940, Lot 508.
    2. Richard C. Jewell Collection sale by Stack's Bowers on March 8, 2005.

    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-AOPCU/1853-pattern-cent-liberty-head-60-off-center-j-151-p-178-rarity-6-proof-63-ngc

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WilliamF said:
    Interesting that the Braided hair design for the small cent is so different than the one for the large cent, small cent design looks more like the design you find on the gold pieces.

    Correct. That is a $2-1/2 obverse.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @WilliamF said:
    Interesting that the Braided hair design for the small cent is so different than the one for the large cent, small cent design looks more like the design you find on the gold pieces.

    Correct. That is a $2-1/2 obverse.

    A quarter eagle has been added to the OP to compare :)

  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was very seriously considering buying that O/C Pattern cent in 2007, but I was more focused then and it didn't fit the mint error type set I was working on.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since some patterns were made for fun and profit, I would look at a pattern error with a jaundiced eye.

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 7, 2022 4:07PM

    @Lakesammman said:
    Since some patterns were made for fun and profit, I would look at a pattern error with a jaundiced eye.

    But would you expect more than 1 of these to exist if it was causing jaundice?

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Since some patterns were made for fun and profit, I would look at a pattern error with a jaundiced eye.

    I doubt if there was very much “error premium” in 1853.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Lakesammman said:
    Since some patterns were made for fun and profit, I would look at a pattern error with a jaundiced eye.

    I doubt if there was very much “error premium” in 1853.

    Agree. There were a few errors that big collectors got like the Virgil Brand 1886 Morgan Dollar Die Cap, but for the most part, many errors didn't seem to find a following until much, much later.

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