Was it a mistake upgrading this coin?

P0CKETCHANGE

Bought this at a show because it literally stopped me in my tracks walking past a dealer’s booth—it’s very flashy in-hand, with a mirrored dynamic in the fields on both sides. The green CAC sticker was a nice bonus, affirming the MS63 grade on the holder.





Thinking it might have a shot at PL, I sent it into PCGS for the Reconsideration service (where they only crack the coin out if it upgrades). I did not check the “suffix-only” box on the form. Lo and behold, the coin did upgrade! It was bumped a full point from 63 to 64, but no PL. It’s got a fancy TrueView now:





While I haven’t sent the new holder to CAC yet, I’m not confident in it getting a bean at 64—despite the flashy appearance the coin has a lot of chatter in both the fields and on the devices. At the end of the day, it’s the same coin and it’s still my set type example, but I’ve been second-guessing the decision.

I’m interested in thoughts and feedback from the experts here. Would you rather have this coin in a 63 CAC, or a 64 non-CAC holder? How do you think through coins in your collection or inventory that you believe are upgrade candidates?

gumby1234

No matter the holder or sticker its the same coin. I buy coins not the slab or sticker.

Zoins

Do you like it less?

ricko

I would say it only matters if you are selling the coin... For you, it is the same coin, regardless of the number or sticker on the plastic. Cheers, RickO

Catbert

Depends upon your collection goal if your coins require beans. If so, bummer.

If i like a coin and it fails CAC, it is disappointing but it doesn't change why I liked the coin in the first place.

BTW, your pics are better.

Meltdown

That's a tough one with no wrong answer really... I like a coin that is solid for the grade with a green bean. I haven't looked, does the price guide indicate much of a jump between 63 & 64? If it's considerably more valuable, I suppose I'd be happy either way.

braddick

It was about $500. upgrade between MS63 and MS64.
It would have been a 1K upgrade had it gone from MS63 to MS63PL.

I think you did fine.

skier07

64’s, CAC or non-CAC sell for more than CAC 63’s. Good job.

At the end of the day it’s still the same coin so enjoy it.

Smudge

@ricko said:
I would say it only matters if you are selling the coin... For you, it is the same coin, regardless of the number or sticker on the plastic. Cheers, RickO

Agree, it will bring more if you sell it. Otherwise it’s the same coin.

DoubleEagle59

no brainer for me....I'd take an ms64 over a 63 green bean all day long.

BuffaloIronTail

Upgrading a coin is never a mistake.

\Pete

Paradisefound

☺️ Congratulations @PocketChange
a beautiful coin and you may still get the bean 🥰

The eye appeal is the same but now of a point higher grade ….. they might still see it.
Have you look at similar MS64 with the sticker?

1madman

I’m just not getting PL vibes from this coin, and I think the 64 grade was the correct upgrade. Another thing you could do is submit to NGC and potentially get a “star” designation if it’s got some borderline PL effects. Guess it depends on what you’re ultimately looking for on the label

logger7

Substantial upgrade, depends on what you paid initially.

At a show a dealer had a high end MS64 $20 Lib. same date. He had me pegged as a sucker willing to try the coin for an upgrade. I tried a couple times, no dice on that, lost real money.

P0CKETCHANGE

@1madman said:
I’m just not getting PL vibes from this coin, and I think the 64 grade was the correct upgrade. Another thing you could do is submit to NGC and potentially get a “star” designation if it’s got some borderline PL effects. Guess it depends on what you’re ultimately looking for on the label

Here’s another angle which better captures the reflectivity and contrast. The effect is more pronounced on the reverse.

@logger7 said:
Substantial upgrade, depends on what you paid initially.

At a show a dealer had a high end MS64 $20 Lib. same date. He had me pegged as a sucker willing to try the coin for an upgrade. I tried a couple times, no dice on that, lost real money.

I paid 64 money for it originally. Not because I believed it’d upgrade (I thought it was accurately graded at 63), but because of the superb eye appeal. Once I got it home, I started thinking about the PL designation.

P0CKETCHANGE

@Paradisefound said:
☺️ Congratulations @PocketChange
a beautiful coin and you may still get the bean 🥰

The eye appeal is the same but now of a point higher grade ….. they might still see it.
Have you look at similar MS64 with the sticker?

Good point. I’ll definitely be sending it to them at some point. I’d certainly be pleased if it beaned again.

Elcontador

As others said, it depends on what's important to you. You overpaid for the coin because you liked it, and it's now worth what you paid for it. It's still the same coin. If you plan on keeping it, none of this matters.

Several years ago, I sent several coins to PCGS. Both were MS 66s with stickers. I thought one was a shot 7, and the other should get a +. The one that I thought was a shot 7 did not upgrade, while the one I thought should get a + came back in an MS 67 holder (which btw, did not sticker as a 7, and I agree with this).

You never know. They're still my coins, and I like both of them. If I sold them, would get a nice profit on the MS 67, would eat it on the MS 66 and I'm sure someone else will get the MS 67 on it after the purchase.

Cougar1978

I would take the 64 non CAC over the 63 cac.

jesbroken

What really matters, is it was and is a beautiful coin regardless of a label. In this case I do not think you made a mistake upgrading it. Congrats and thank you for sharing such a beauty.
Jim

coinkat

It illustrates the subjective nature of grading

erwindoc

Glad you got a nice coin, but IMO I dont think it will get a bean the second time around.

lkenefic

Upgraded by a full point... I really don't see the down side here. Granted, you were hoping for PL fields but two independent graders have now determined otherwise... I still think it's a beautiful coin!! enjoy!!

blitzdude

Long gone are the days when a fellow (or gal) just collected coins. Now it seems half the hobby running around chasing silly stickers and different colour slabs. It's a sick world. RGDS!

PS: Nice DE, I like it regardless.

BryceM

Random thoughts, in no particular order:

• Upgrading it a point isn't a bad thing. CU Book value difference is $3200 vs $2750. ($450)
• Try it again for a sticker. You never know.
• The actual value difference between an average non-CAC 64 and an exceptional 63 CAC is probably pretty minimal.
• Trying again for a PL probably isn't going to be high-odds.
• As you say, it's still the same coin. When I've gotten "upgrades" I typically don't enjoy the coin any more than before. I sort of like owning really PQ coins for the assigned grade. It's easier to get the value back out, if needed.

logger7

You should have tried it at NGC, still could. Prooflike is a designation that is open to debate and PCGS is new to giving that designation on business strike coins. It hasn't been that long really since they started to give pls out on gold business strikes. I've seen a lot of NGC pl gold pieces.

winesteven

This reply is not answering your questions, but just addressing one of your concerns - getting the CAC sticker back on the gorgeous MS64:

1. Since this was done via Reconsideration, you’ve retained the same cert number.
2. On your CAC submission form, hand write that “While the coin was upgraded by PCGS via Reconsideration, the coin previously had a CAC sticker, and the cert number remained unchanged. I am hoping JA agrees this same coin still merits a CAC sticker”.
3. I believe the reason gold coins in general tend to have a lower success rate with CAC than copper or silver is because of past surface “treatment”. Your coin has already passed that tough test with CAC, so now the only remaining question is whether or not CAC will agree it’s solid for the 64 grade.

Let us know the result. I’m rooting for you!

Steve

Kliao

No, I think you did well. It's the same beautiful coin and wouldn't let a green sticker on the slab, although nice, decide if I like the coin or not.

P0CKETCHANGE

Great advice @winesteven —thank you.

Thanks all who weighed in on my post as well.

pmh1nic

The first group of photos show a 63 coin in my opinion.The chatter on the field and cheek are much more visible than in the Trueview photo. The Trueview photo is more indicative of a 64 coin.

FredF

Upgrading a coin is never a mistake.

Once upon a time I bought a coin in an ANACS 55 holder, figuring it would cross to PCGS at 53. Sent it in, it came back MS 60. So yes, an "upgrade," but 60's have negative stigmas.

winesteven

@FredF said:
Once upon a time I bought a coin in an ANACS 55 holder, figuring it would cross to PCGS at 53. Sent it in, it came back MS 60. So yes, an "upgrade," but 60's have negative stigmas.

While many of us strongly prefer a nice problem-free 58 over a 60 or 61, I think I’d prefer a 60 with chatter than a 53 at the same cost.

Steve

rays

Since there are over 200,000 1904 double eagles certified as mint state, including many tens of thousands in MS63 and MS64, I would not consider an MS64 example very much more collectible than an MS63. Therefore I would not have sent that coin either for CAC consideration nor PCGS reconsideration.

DisneyFan

I'd show the coin around at the next high end coin show. I've a couple what I consider prooflike coins that have not been designated as such even though the guide books declare they are out there. I bought them on-line and they did not appear to be so at the time they were bought. In hand, it's a different story. I wonder if the prooflike appearance does not show up in the grading room because of the lighting?

DisneyFan

@winesteven said:

@FredF said:
Once upon a time I bought a coin in an ANACS 55 holder, figuring it would cross to PCGS at 53. Sent it in, it came back MS 60. So yes, an "upgrade," but 60's have negative stigmas.

While many of us strongly prefer a nice problem-free 58 over a 60 or 61, I think I’d prefer a 60 with chatter than a 53 at the same cost.

Steve

As long as it had a sticker.

winesteven

@DisneyFan said:

@winesteven said:
While many of us strongly prefer a nice problem-free 58 over a 60 or 61, I think I’d prefer a 60 with chatter than a 53 at the same cost.

Steve

As long as it had a sticker.

Ha! Yes, you are correct, lol.

Steve

MFeld

@DisneyFan said:
I'd show the coin around at the next high end coin show. I've a couple what I consider prooflike coins that have not been designated as such even though the guide books declare they are out there. I bought them on-line and they did not appear to be so at the time they were bought. In hand, it's a different story. I wonder if the prooflike appearance does not show up in the grading room because of the lighting?

Lighting in grading rooms wouldn’t in any way inhibit a coin’s PL appearance.