I'm always a bit confused as to why sellers don't show the TrueViews in their auctions
braddick
Posts: 24,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
So I was watching this one all week.
Here are the seller's photos:
Here is the TrueView:
I do think this toned Ike would have sold for more if the photos were in line with the coin.
Just a thought.
peacockcoins
11
Comments
A few reasons:
~sometimes the TrueView is not a good representation of the coin (and it could lead to a higher chance of a return)
~some people don’t know about TrueViews or don’t know how to download the picture
~some only want to use their own photos (for a variety of reasons)
Here are David Lawrence's photos when it was sold by his firm:
And Heritage's photos when sold a few years ago:
peacockcoins
Some sellers like consistency so if some of their auctions don't have TrueViews, none of their auctions do.
Others don't mind variation in their listings.
That’s definitely a reason too
Interesting that neither of them show TrueViews either.
Here's the cert:
There have been times where Heritage did not use TrueViews for whatever reason, and times they have.
I don’t have time to check the certs on lots of pcgs coins just to see if they have TVs. If a consignor clues me in I can use it, but even then, sometimes I’m uncomfortable with them since I think they can overdo the colors, and at the end of the day I’m still the one responsible for representing the coin properly. They’re pretty images no doubt, but when a SNAD can come for any reason, they’re a potential new reason.
Your photos for your auctions are professional and many times rival any other seller on eBay. With the photos you take, I would see little to no use for TrueViews.
peacockcoins
That and why they/some didn't bother to get a TV for a rather high grade coin.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I'd be reluctant to use Trueviews unless they're edited because they oftentimes don't resemble the coin in hand.
Original Trueview
Edited Trueview to better resemble the coin in hand.
While TruView's are excellent pictures, they, like all coin pictures, can stray from reality. Lighting etc plays a big part in coin photography. This has been clearly demonstrated on the forum many times. Cheers, RickO
I agree with @braddick —if there’s a TrueView it should be included. More information (photos) is better than fewer photos in pretty much any situation. As a buyer, I find I can get the best “read” on a coin when there are multiple slab shots along with a TV. As a seller, that’s what I try to provide as well.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
It is a good question. Another good question is why do some sellers still use 1990s era scanners for coin pictures when a $400 used macro camera / copy stand setup and maybe a little self education would produce far superior pictures. And some of these sellers list coins worth hundreds or thousands of dollars.
I feel the more pictures the better.
If available, I would include the tv.
Many auctions have poor quality photos that hinder interested parties.
I too take lousy pictures but if I were to sell coins on auction sites, I would do whatever it takes to do quality photos.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
If PCGSPhoto can take a TrueView of a coin, anyone holding the coin in-hand can replicate that image for their own eyes to see. Taking a picture doesn't mean the images are "juiced" and I don't believe PCGS does that, enhances images. They simply take a picture which shows a coin to its best advantage. I have not owned any7 coin or medal with a PVGS TrueView image that wasn't EXACTLY as it appeared in-hand.
To my way of thinking, not using an available TrueView image is mainly due to either ignorance of its existence or laziness.
I'm more annoyed if the ONLY photo of the coin in the eBay auction is the truview photo.
That's not entirely the case. PCGS most definitely has a recipe for hue and saturation enhancement they apply to most images. They've stated before that they use a series of automation scripts to help process. So while someone can get the same angle and lighting as PCGS relatively easily the choice of color interpretation is another matter entirely. And it's very clear that PCGS favors a slight contrast enhancement, red saturation, and a small hue twist.
@TurtleCat said: I'm more annoyed if the ONLY photo of the coin in the eBay auction is the truview photo.
I'm annoyed when a TrueView is available and not used, the seller opting for what are their perhaps manipulated images.
They've stated before that they use a series of automation scripts to help process.
That's news to me, but I stand by my statement that all coins I have seen images of and held in-hand were as the images represented.
Many of those coins you’re talking about probably weren’t submitted by the sellers
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Here is a case where I think the TV would hurt vs. help. Maybe no impact but it could influence some (a seller or a buyer) one way or the other. The coin appears lighter in the one photo and darker in the other.
Pocket Change Inspector
I am also confused why dealers do not make cert #'s available. Some hide it in the inventory number but some do not give it out at all.
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I don’t know which image is more accurate. However, in this case, I prefer the look of the coin in the Trueview version, because it looks more original.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I've also seen a few where they won't give out cert numbers or full slab pictures. I'm sure they have their reasons but I refuse to do business with them.
Apathy ? It's just a buck.
It’s more difficult to research the auction history without a certification number. I have found that dealers will provide a slab shot if requested.
I will say I’ve gotten some amazing deals when a TV is available but not included in the listing.
The OP shows what I have seen for a long time, almost everyone who sells numismatic coins online have low quality images that do not display the full qualities of the examples displayed. Ebay sellers, auction houses, etc. I simply don't get it. Great pictures should enhance price and liquidity if the product is high quality. But everyone seems lazy and IMO are losing money because of it. Especially the lousy images on all of the major auction sites, yikes. How is that doing their best for the consignors? Not.
Best, SH
That 'originality' might be a result of slight red shift in the image relatively to what it really looks like with ones eyes. Makes it look darker and maybe a touch more red. Is it accurate? This is why it is so important to see coins in hand when spending money for them.
Best, SH
I don’t disagree and that’s why I said I don’t know which image is more accurate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Very nice photos!
Agreed with what you say - but you are one of the rare sellers that actually takes excellent images and strives for accuracy........
Mark we agree to agree on this for sure....... This is why in hand viewing is so important.
Best, SH
Some hide the cert number so someone else can’t enter the coin into their registry without buying it. Others hide it so that it’s harder to research the prior sales. And some just hide it because they have seen others hide it.
I don’t think any of the reasons are great for hiding it but I see why some might want to do it. I wouldn’t pass on a coin if the cert was hidden but it would be a case where I’d first do some extra research (of the seller’s other items/feedback/etc).
Some times coins are sold without TruView because the submitter / seller has coin and still waiting for TruView. This does not seem to be the case with this coin you show.
I don’t think I would buy an expensive coin without a slab shot.
I don't do it often, but I did get this one, which turned out to be gorgeous and 100% like the TrueView, except better when light is bouncing off of it in hand.
I'd certainly be more hesitant with an expensive coin but sometimes you have to take a risk (and it can turn out to be a winner, like @Zoins showed us above)
I think dealers are easier to sell to than the “collectors.” 🤣. Did I say that?
I have had the opposite experience, especially with copper. I seek a “truer view” and have had excellent results with @robec photos. In fact it has been very informative visiting his website showing his pics of his collection where he shows a TV alongside his photos. They are frequently very different including silver coins.
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I'd argue that. PCGS gets to shoot the coins raw. There are coins that require a lighting angle that will produce glare if the coin is slabbed, so PCGS is at a major advantage. Specifically, toned coins with mirrored fields (proofs or prooflike) are much easier to shoot raw than slabbed.
It takes time to photograph and process slab photos. It's one more step to type out and double-check the cert number. Two reasons not to make the cert number available when not requested.
At least for me in every single case when I compare a coin in hand with the TrueView the TV is more saturated and on the redder side. I’m not the only one to notice.
That's true...but they are (usually) paying way less. I bet it would be a lot easier to sell to collectors if you offered them coins at or below wholesale.
I do not think a seller is obligated to include a TrueView as long as the images are accurate.
Glamour shots can be dissected in certain cases as not an accurate in hand representation.
I always do. Mostly because my pictures are trash LOL
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What was the question?
There are a BUNCH of YN sellers on Instagram that never show True Views. They take a cell phone slab shot sometimes, a tilted cell phone pic of the coin and then they do the cell phone wiggle video. Every time there’s a glimpse of a cert number for PCGS, I go look it up. Sometimes there’s a True View or previous auction photo. When these YN sellers send stuff to ATS, they are frequently not taking advantage of the new photo service which is good for the hobby. These sellers want to do the cell phone wiggle and just say “Trust Me, It’ll Cross” or “Trust Me, It Should Upgrade.”
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that one has always baffled me. (even crazier when they have terrible images and/or scans in lieu of)
perhaps stories of how we dissect coins/slabs down to their elemental particles here has dissuaded some info from being public until they no longer own the item?
These can actually be configured in-camera, which is why I laugh when people say that you don't know what you're doing if you have to do post-processing after you take coin pictures. Automation scripts are probably for cropping and compositing. I use Imagemagick scripts for compositing and some captioning.
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Shhhhhhh that was supposed to be a secret!
I got a couple TVs for my recent 2021 Morgans where they must've had a dark shirt or background when shooting them.
These -
look more like this in reality -