what's the reason scratched coins wont grade problem-free circulated?

WingedLiberty1957

I'm sure there must be a good reason somewhere, but I always thought it was strange that a coin could be circulated the point of hardly being recognizable and grade problem free AG or P; meanwhile if that same coin was scratched during circulation, then it grades Genuine, Scratched. Why aren't scratches considered a normal part of being circulated, jingled in a pocket, or dropped while circulating? What's so special about a scratch?

In any case, this Morgan that graded problem-free Poor 01 appears to my eye to have little scratches on it. Are there certain qualities of scratches that disqualify coins from grades?

lilolme

I do not have the official answer.
However, I believe it has to do with what you mentioned - normal part of circulation. It is not just a scratch but includes other things like a rim ding, a contact mark or similar that is large enough to be damage.

Now when does a scratch become a scratch that causes a detail grade. Or a rim ding become damage. A contact mark that becomes a gouge and detail grade. There is no official definition that I know of and is therefore subjective. But at some point they are not 'normal' and become damage.

ricko

This is my opinion, and not official ... I think there is a judgement call among the graders which determines when a scratch (or gouge) becomes damage. Somehow the severity comes into play to determine the difference. Much like all aspects of grading, it is mainly trained opinion. Which is why grades can fluctuate. Cheers, RickO

Cougar1978

I dont believe there is any reason they should grade problem free. Scratched, mutilated coins no go for me. Send them to smelter.

conrad99

@ricko said:
This is my opinion, and not official ... I think there is a judgement call among the graders which determines when a scratch (or gouge) becomes damage. Somehow the severity comes into play to determine the difference. Much like all aspects of grading, it is mainly trained opinion. Which is why grades can fluctuate. Cheers, RickO

Thank you. People have trouble remembering this.

@Cougar1978 said:
I dont believe there is any reason they should grade problem free. Scratched, mutilated coins no go for me. Send them to smelter.

Send your scratched Stellas and 1893 dollars to me, thx.

fathom

Grafitti scratches are a no go.

Others depend on degree.

jmlanzaf

@Cougar1978 said:
I dont believe there is any reason they should grade problem free. Scratched, mutilated coins no go for me. Send them to smelter.

EVERY circulated coin has "scratches". You might want to think about this a little more. A deep gauge is not the same as a friction hairline from being circulated.

Che_Grapes

Hairlines often means it was cleaned

No Headlights

in most instances a scratch is a problem.

jmlanzaf

@Che_Grapes said:
Hairlines often means it was cleaned

Or just circulated...

Sapyx

I think the main problem with scratches is, what exactly does a scratch do to the grade? Do you "net grade it" - like if a coin has EF45 details but a couple of scratches, do you call it EF40? VF30? or "EF45 Scratched"? Or would you just ignore the scratches and simply call it EF45? That latter seems unlikely, as I think all would agree that prominent scratches make a coin undesirable so should get mentioned on the slab in some fashion. But how do you quantify that undesirability?

Ideally you'd "market grade" it. The problem here is, not everyone would agree that an EF45 coin with scratches is worth an EF40 price, or even a VF20 price.

In that sense, scratches are equivalent to cleaning - everyone agrees cleaning is bad, but not everyone can agree on how badly cleaning affects the price. If such a coin is offered for sale, there's going to be haggling and disagreement about the coin's status (which is something that slabs are supposed to minimize). So the only fair solution is to not offer a formal grading opinion at all, and let people get on with haggling about it.

OAKSTAR

As others have said; subjective and trained opinions. I would also thing old scratches vs. new scratches, plus whatever they consider market acceptable.

gumby1234

Apparently its whatever the grading company decides on that day. Recent thread with a coin that had graffiti was straight graded.

The_Dinosaur_Man

It could be a safe bet from the graders' point of view when they have no guarantee of how the scratch was formed. While most scratches and dings could very well be from the coin jingling around in a pocket with car keys for a few days or years, they could also result from a more deliberate action.

Now I'm picturing dropping a coin from near the top of the Empire State Building and it landing on another coin.

1946Hamm

Here is one that surprised me. It is in a older genuine holder for a scratch.

rec78

The more worn (the lower the grade) the coin, the more acceptable scratches are. An XF/AU Morgan with a light scratch could be designated as such, while the same coin in Ag condition with the same light scratch could be straight graded.

jesbroken

Just my guess, but because they are not problem free.
Until we have some sort of accepted terminology for grader's to live with regarding normal wear with allowable scratches it will continue to be happenstance as to grader's choice. Obviously, I would feel gouges, manmade damage or graffiti certainly not acceptable as normal wear, but scratches from slides or pocket collisions might be. I would feel that the market would not accept identical grades with one having scratches and the other without, so most likely a lowered grade for the scratched coin would be needed. JMO
Jim

TomB

@jesbroken said:
Just my guess, but because they are not problem free.
Until we have some sort of accepted terminology for grader's to live with regarding normal wear with allowable scratches it will continue to be happenstance as to grader's choice. Obviously, I would feel gouges, manmade damage or graffiti certainly not acceptable as normal wear, but scratches from slides or pocket collisions might be. I would feel that the market would not accept identical grades with one having scratches and the other without, so most likely a lowered grade for the scratched coin would be needed. JMO
Jim

The "market" accepts virtually everything, it's just that the price is adjusted accordingly.

As for a scratch on a coin, it is my experience that the severity (length, width and depth as well as amount of moved metal), the position (in an open field or within a busy design element) and how obvious it is at first glance will go a long way to determining if the coin receives a straight grade or not. This, of course, is used in combination with the age, metallic composition and amount of wear and wear pattern.

One can find gold eagles and double eagles from the nineteenth century with scratches on them pretty easily that are straight graded yet essentially identical scratches on an otherwise problem-free, MS Franklin half dollar would likely gain the coin the notation of scratched. It's a sliding scale based upon experience.

291fifth

Problem coins are a problem ... a problem that just won't go away.

MasonG

@jesbroken said:
I would feel that the market would not accept identical grades with one having scratches and the other without...

The market accepts coins with identical grades even though the coins are not identical, scratches or otherwise. As noted by TomB, "The "market" accepts virtually everything, it's just that the price is adjusted accordingly."

BuffaloIronTail

@MasonG said:

@jesbroken said:
I would feel that the market would not accept identical grades with one having scratches and the other without...

The market accepts coins with identical grades even though the coins are not identical, scratches or otherwise. As noted by TomB, "The "market" accepts virtually everything, it's just that the price is adjusted accordingly."

This is the answer.

Pete

jesbroken

The idea I was aiming at and not very well, was that when you have a pair of coins with the same grade yet one has far less wear and possibly even a better strike, but it also has a scratch then you would understand the identical grade, but if wear and strike were the same and one suffered a scratch then quite possibly the undamaged coin owner might feel it to be unfair. JMO
Jim

Cougar1978

No reason why they should

1. they are problem coins 2. I don’t know anybody who wants scratched coins

keyman64

And then we have what appears to be a staple scratch from the chin to rim, a few divots out of the jaw and other scratches…on a MS67+! Really cool toning but ummm, not something I could justify for myself. Some have even said QC/AT.