1890-S Toned Morgan - what would you do?
U1chicago
Posts: 6,241 ✭✭✭✭✭
Some may recall this Morgan from the thread below. We had plenty of people guess straight grades but the holder said cleaned. I didn't see any sign of cleaning so I gave it another try at PCGS and received the same result-Unc Details cleaned. A few dealers looked at it for me at a show and each had a different opinion-one thought there was something on the reverse while another thought there was something on the obverse.
I don't know how many times this coin has been tried for grading. All I know is that I bought it in a details holder and got a details grade when sending it myself (that could be the entire history or it might have made tons of trips). Would you try again? Maybe at a different grading company?
Another option is to just list it for sale (with disclosure of the details grade of course). I still like it, so there is also the possibility of putting it back in the box with its other Morgan friends. 
Below are the Trueviews from each time:
Comments
I wouldn’t resubmit it - the coin looks AT to me.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Any reason that you think they would not give questionable color on either grading attempt (both times it was given cleaned)? Everyone can see the color clearly when looking at the coin.
My opinion is AT, disclose it as graded details cleaned. Some people like these coins as there are many on Ebay.
Al
If I were to see it in hand, perhaps I’d also think it should be described as “cleaned”. Sometimes grading companies have more than one good reason to details-grade a coin and only note one of them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Between my inspection and that of several dealers, no one saw an obvious cleaning. And neither dealer matched the thoughts of the other on where the cleaning might be (both had plenty of experience with Morgans). No one finds it odd that something that is clear to any eye-the color-would not be mentioned in favor of something that is more debatable?
I'd love to see this one in hand and do a quick video on it.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
It depends upon who the dealers were. But I’d find it odd if I were to view the coin in hand and not detect cleaning.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’d try another grading company if I was still convinced it should not be details graded for cleaning.
I've sent coins that were details graded (which I was convinced was not correct) at one service to another and gotten straight grades.
Just sayin'.
There is a video here:
Yup, so have I
I've seen it too.
This one (not mine but I recall seeing it for sale at auction) went from cleaned to 63 star (see second slide).
Some grading designations are "smack your head" obvious, some are not so clear...
I agree.
Maybe we need another level of cleaned. Currently we have simple "cleaned" and "harshly cleaned"...there might be an opening for "barely cleaned"
No one thought it was AT?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yeah but that's not under a light that's appropriate for grading.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
No; I recall someone mentioning there might have been "work done" to cover up the cleaning.
Seems to me like it the colors would at least be market acceptable if it were a date more commonly seen with toning (like 79s-82s, 83o-85o, 85p-87p). Definitely seen far weirder color patterns straight grades for those dates. Area from 6:00 to 9:00 looks different on the video, intensity of the cartwheel and the color pattern looks off and somewhat muted on both fronts, wonder if there are some hairlines hidden under the toning there? Pretty darn intriguing 90-s regardless.
Crack it and try it at NGC.
If I was going to submit again I’d send it ATS and I’d base my decision on whether to submit or not on how much more the coin is worth if it was straight graded.
It's a beautiful coin. If it's AT, it was done by an expert. I'd keep it as is. Consider that it could come back QT or AT. I'd rather have a cleaning details grade.
I think sending it to get regraded isn't going to get the results you are looking for. Cartwheel luster appears to be impaired looking at the video, so most likely it was cleaned and then toned. Whether AT or NT its hard to say.
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Based on the pictures, I do not see cleaning, however, the AT may be concealing it... In hand, luster break or other details may be apparent. Cheers, RickO
I'm guessing if they view a coin AT and see any other even minor problems with it listing those is the path of least resistance for them. I've never worked for a grading service but I can imagine they just love the phone calls disagreeing with their questionable color grades. Maybe (certainly) they get similar calls for cleaned coin disagreements but the toned crowd seems to be the most fiery and passionate.
The TrueView looks pretty good to me. But from the video, it looks like a cleaned coin. Just a bit too glossy. Color looks quite different than the TrueView and way "off" as well. I'm no expert but I do have some nicely toned Morgan Dollars and I always have a tough time with toning on Morgan Dollars. It seems to be a crap shoot. But you gotta see these in hand to judge.
On my last toned dollar submission, before I submitted, I showed it to some dealers/former graders and I also showed it to Mr. Eureka at the Baltimore show. All said it would grade. Bolstered by that, I submitted and they were right.
Tom