1909S-VDB Lincoln Cent This is an opinion POLL at present!

MarkW63

I'm not going to point out the details that I've question that way it'll be more of an open minded POLL of fake or genuine?
Please try to state a couple of aspects about the coin that formed your opinion.
Its not a debate, if we get mixed opinions then of course the coin would be to questionable and thus will be just looked over.
No Link Has Been Included On Purpose!!, Lets just take a look at the coin. Thanks

LanceNewmanOCC

hmm.

i'll start with the rev. i am pretty sure the rev is known for some blurry VDB on authentic examples, so i can't condem it on that and also can make some authentication a bit more difficult.

i'm still getting my brain/recall to assimilate the shallow N feature as a major and reliable authentication point but should prove quite useful in this situation.

the obv looks like pos #1 which is proving the be the scarcest imo by far.

the straight leg 2nd 9 is a common feature amongst certain lines of counterfeits.

perhaps the 2nd 9 just took a coincidental hit.

i haven't done the precise MM alignment comp.

w/o doing specific checks, i'll say authentic but damaged.

FlyingAl

I think genuine. Details look fine, MM #1, overall look fine.

BuffaloIronTail

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
hmm.

i'll start with the rev. i am pretty sure the rev is known for some blurry VDB on authentic examples, so i can't condem it on that and also can make some authentication a bit more difficult.

i'm still getting my brain/recall to assimilate the shallow N feature as a major and reliable authentication point but should prove quite useful in this situation.

the obv looks like pos #1 which is proving the be the scarcest imo by far.

the straight leg 2nd 9 is a common feature amongst certain lines of counterfeits.

perhaps the 2nd 9 just took a coincidental hit.

i haven't done the precise MM alignment comp.

w/o doing specific checks, i'll say authentic but damaged.

It has a woodgrain look to it.

The rim is kinda broader, which is a trait that 1909 coins have.

Me thinks MDD.

Pete

matt_dac

Raw? Pass

justmenutty72

I say legit, weak v.d.b. issue on a typical wood-grain planchet

gumby1234

Has S mintmark Die 1 positioning but the S looks a bit wonky and so does the second 9 in the date. The V.D.B looks weird and the whole coin looks wonky to me. I will say counterfeit.
If it is real I wouldn't want such a horrible specimen in my collection.

MarkW63

@gumby1234 said:
Has S mintmark Die 1 positioning but the S looks a bit wonky and so does the second 9 in the date. The V.D.B looks weird and the whole coin looks wonky to me. I will say counterfeit.
If it is real I wouldn't want such a horrible specimen in my collection.

Look at the letter alignment in the word AMERICA, look across the bottom of it.
The straight legged tail of the second 9 is a counterfeit marker, BUT! the rest of the coin doesn't match up with lot of fakes.
Next, look at the wheat grains of the left wheat ear vs the right?
Why is there so much of E.PLURIBUS gone when the rest of the coin show that much wear?

gumby1234

@Mark63 also States letter alignment.

gumby1234

I cant tell from the pics but there is supposed to be a dot in the upper loop of the S mintmark.

MarkW63

Also, UNITED looks more like it has two "T"s in it.

gumby1234

and the S of pluribus looks like a Z in the mirror

justmenutty72

The 2nd 9 looks like it took a hit in circulation. The weakness of e plu and the O of ONE looks like a weak strike that also affected v.d.b.

gumby1234

@justmenutty72 Wouldn't a weak strike affect the whole reverse?

FlyingAl

@gumby1234 said:
@justmenutty72 Wouldn't a weak strike affect the whole reverse?

Not necessarily. Oftentimes weak strikes can be caused by die placement in the press which can cause one side to be really well struck and the other not (note the strength on the right bottom wheat ear).

justmenutty72

@gumby1234 said:
@justmenutty72 Wouldn't a weak strike affect the whole reverse?

Not necessarily, could be a tapered planchet or grease filled in those specific areas.

gumby1234

@FlyingAl OK but the so called weak strike is affecting the coin at 6 o'clock and at 11 o'clock?

ifthevamzarockin

I appears to have a shallow N like it should.
The second 9 appears to be post mint damage.
It appears like it may match mint mark position #1
The woodgrain appearance would suggest a genuine US planchet.
At this point I don't see enough from the photos to make an authenticity call of fake

A better photo of the vdb would help.

gumby1234

Explain the first T in States? Why is it tilted?

justmenutty72

@ifthevamzarockin said:
I appears to have a shallow N like it should.
The second 9 appears to be post mint damage.
It appears like it may match mint mark position #1
The woodgrain appearance would suggest a genuine US planchet.
At this point I don't see enough from the photos to make an authenticity call of fake

A better photo of the vdb would help.

I agree. I forgot to mention that the N in UNITED looks correct.👍👍👍

Steven59

This is one to not touch unless graded. It look good then others bring up good points as to not authentic. I can see the last 9 being pushed over (metal movement) from something, gumball machine? Can't see V.D.B. well enough to speculate. S mintmark looks good in position Die Pair #1 as stated. Shallow N looks good.

Steven59

@gumby1234 said:
@justmenutty72 Wouldn't a weak strike affect the whole reverse?

No, probably not a "weak strike" as compared to a "Greaser"........ they come in many shapes, sizes, denominations, and years........

FlyingAl

I think you guys may be thinking a little too hard and seeing things that don't exist.

The mintmark placement is right. The coin has some hits, so some metal movement on a few letters is accounted for.

SlickCoins

I say legit even with these not so zoomed in pictures & I'll explain.
These coins are my fav
So number one on the 1 at the bottom looks like the correct S mark was struck on top of the 1 thus ruining the S mark in my opinion.
Number 2, marks everywhere including the S on the throat
If I'm allowed may I add my 1909 VDB with an S mark on the throat and do a collage maybe?
Anyways thanks for sharing,,,I dig it

justmenutty72

@SlickCoins said:
I say legit even with these not so zoomed in pictures & I'll explain.
These coins are my fav
So number one on the 1 at the bottom looks like the correct S mark was struck on top of the 1 thus ruining the S mark in my opinion.
Number 2, marks everywhere including the S on the throat
If I'm allowed may I add my 1909 VDB with an S mark on the throat and do a collage maybe?
Anyways thanks for sharing,,,I dig it

What in the heck are you talking about?

SlickCoins

Look at the 1 at the bottom, the top of the S is on the 1,,, in my opinion also S's everywhere all sizes in the wrong spots to the right.
Look in-between the letters.

SlickCoins

Above the date 90 is something,,, in-between ST looks like a C same with the NI then the T has an S,,,, struck S mark on the bottom of the N,,,OF O has something in it,,F has an S inside the bottom of the F.
There's more also

ifthevamzarockin

Master engraver initials?

SlickCoins

No sorry sir this is way down the road 1834 was the last year for ME marks
Oh sorry initials nope these are S marks and maybe something else.
Also there's more and my 1909 VDB matches in more than one way,,, hence me asking to share. The busted 9 has an S mark in it.
Thanks all

ifthevamzarockin

Maybe anti-counterfeiting micro printing?

MarkW63

Compare the marked area's, notice the cross bar on one "A" is correct while the other one isn't.

Oldhoopster

@SlickCoins said:


Look at the 1 at the bottom, the top of the S is on the 1,,, in my opinion also S's everywhere all sizes in the wrong spots to the right.
Look in-between the letters.

You said:

in my opinion also S's everywhere all sizes in the wrong spots to the right.

Please stop the nonsense. There are no S's everywhere. This is a serious discusion, not the start of your weekend trollfest

justmenutty72

@ifthevamzarockin said:
Master engraver initials?

I think he’s related. Or maybe alter ego?

SlickCoins

Above the O is an S looks raised
Woot woot also our fav Hoopster an S mark on the throat, also raised like mine Hoop

MarkW63

I will say this as a word of caution,
To much zoom on the bad images of this coin doesn't seem like much of a good idea, its makes lots of things appear that's not there.

SlickCoins

I'd like to share mine if you all would like to see it also
Also I'm not saying anyone is wrong,, JMO's
Thanks all
Yes a word of caution for all others,,, please be aware of what is coming for you if you present what I have.
PS my 1978 D LMC is the same,, my 1916 is the same & my 1899 IHC is also one of these.

ifthevamzarockin

@SlickCoins Don't hijack this thread with your coin.

Make your own thread

SlickCoins

That's why I asked kind sir,, just it kinda does back up my theory,,I mean showing another like specimen. JMO
I won't share per your reply also good idea I mean starting my own.

SlickCoins

Also Hoopster you are one of my favs this far,,,I don't know why you keep on with this troll garbage,, same goes for everyone in my opinion what gives?

justmenutty72

@SlickCoins said:
I'd like to share mine if you all would like to see it also
Also I'm not saying anyone is wrong,, JMO's
Thanks all
Yes a word of caution for all others,,, please be aware of what is coming for you if you present what I have.
PS my 1978 D LMC is the same,, my 1916 is the same & my 1899 IHC is also one of these.

At almost a year of membership, it appears that you have gained little to no knowledge of the minting process. Why is that??

BillJones

The “S” mint mark does not have the right shape. The middle bar is supposed to be thicker. I vote fake, but like the others, I would never buy one of these coins raw from a photo.

ricko

Not a coin I would purchase. Too many questionable points, most pointed out above. Cheers, RickO

smalltime

Most obvious to me is the C in Cent.. It looks really wonky to me as both ends of the letter point in different directions. I think this coin is a fake.