@ifthevamzarockin said:
This isn't even a better quality counterfeit, there are many things wrong with it.
Take it to a pawn shop or jewelry store and ask them to scan it for you.
Take it to a local coin shop in your area if there is one.
if it truly is silver and the weight is good, it is better than the typical pot metal 99c wish.com crap that is commonly out there.
Aliexpress does sell fakes in proper weight silver for $35.
The OP purchased the coin before posting it on the forum and was just waiting for it to come in the mail.
They posted this update when the coin was in hand.
@GoldenEgg said:
Based on the color and luster, it does not appear to be silver. Even circulated silver does not look like this.
Many of the minor details are incorrect. Also note the blob of metal left of the neck.
Try to get your money back!
GoldenEgg said it first. Many years ago when I was in Vietnam, I knowingly bought a fake 1875 CC Trade $. It was a good fake; the specs were correct. It fooled a number of dealers. The giveaway was the ping when we dropped it on a concrete floor. Silver doesn't sound that way. I'll bet that's what's going on with your coin, among other things.
Considering it's a better date, I'd also suggest looking on the web for characteristics of fake 1879 CC Morgans. I saw a site, for example, that provided tips for spotting fake 1893 S Morgans.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@golden said:
He thought he got a good deal at an estate sale even though he was told before the sale that it was bad.
I looked at the OP’s posts in both threads and didn’t see any comments about a good deal or anything along those lines. Did you infer that he thought he got a good deal (or that there was a Santa Claus in numismatics) because he bought the coin in a estate sale?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Matthewdm11 said:
I must say, this forum is amazing. Both posts I authored about this coin has been very informative for me and everyone has been willing to educate me. I have decided to not send it to NGC and I am going to try to get a refund from the auction house.
I gotta say, you're pretty amazing for accepting it so calmly! 95% of newbies who post about their coins are in utter denial when the members tell them it's likely a counterfeit, so great job with the respect and maturity you've shown already, keep it up! )
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
@Matthewdm11 said:
I must say, this forum is amazing. Both posts I authored about this coin has been very informative for me and everyone has been willing to educate me. I have decided to not send it to NGC and I am going to try to get a refund from the auction house.
I gotta say, you're pretty amazing for accepting it so calmly! 95% of newbies who post about their coins are in utter denial when the members tell them it's likely a counterfeit, so great job with the respect and maturity you've shown already, keep it up! )
Thank you, I am using this as a learning experience. I just sent a long email with HD pictures and comparison pictures from PCGS to the auction house. Hopefully they are willing to resolve this amicably and reimburse me.
@Matthewdm11 said:
I must say, this forum is amazing. Both posts I authored about this coin has been very informative for me and everyone has been willing to educate me. I have decided to not send it to NGC and I am going to try to get a refund from the auction house.
I gotta say, you're pretty amazing for accepting it so calmly! 95% of newbies who post about their coins are in utter denial when the members tell them it's likely a counterfeit, so great job with the respect and maturity you've shown already, keep it up! )
Thank you, I am using this as a learning experience. I just sent a long email with HD pictures and comparison pictures from PCGS to the auction house. Hopefully they are willing to resolve this amicably and reimburse me.
So I figured it's being returned anyways,,,I was asked about the blob on the neck.
Well I'm glad you brought that up cause that would make total sense for a RIDB retained internal die break. JMO
Here ya go
PS I'm not saying it's real or fake I'm just making observations,,,, also I think the M For the engravers initial mark is done solo on each coin. JMO
@SlickCoins said:
So I figured it's being returned anyways,,,I was asked about the blob on the neck.
Well I'm glad you brought that up cause that would make total sense for a RIDB retained internal die break. JMO
Here ya go
The blob of metal in the field to the left of the neck
I don't see anything in the circled area. What about the die break would make total sense? Please be clear with your responses. You don't want people to be confused and misinterpret what you post.
What are your thoughts about a top VAM expert saying the reverse die type was only used in 1884? You have yet to comment on that significant piece of data.
Hey GM Hoop,
You all are the experts,,I don't know any of the VAM's,,, yet
Also that sounds super impressive I'll look into VAM's they sound cool 😎
I'm new so this is gonna sound weird maybe 🤔😂
It's like the bugs bunny effect where metal is being displaced,, also I really didn't look at blobs I was trying to make sense where all this hair went. I will say if it's on the other side of the neck in the field yeah that's really impossible I'm thinking to sling metal there,,,I thought it was on the neck, I mean IDK
I'm never going to say you all are wrong you all are the experts,,, I'm new & yes I'm learning a bunch and I'm totally grateful for you all thanks again.
Slick
@SlickCoins"I think the M For the engravers initial mark is done solo on each coin."
How can you tell it was done solo if you have only seen one and can't compare?
You get dumber with every comment you make.
You will end up spending 4 years here and still know absolutely nothing about coins kinda like Emerald & Robert.
@SlickCoins said:
Hey GM Hoop,
You all are the experts,,I don't know any of the VAM's,,, yet
Also that sounds super impressive I'll look into VAM's they sound cool 😎
I'm new so this is gonna sound weird maybe 🤔😂
It's like the bugs bunny effect where metal is being displaced,, also I really didn't look at blobs I was trying to make sense where all this hair went. I will say if it's on the other side of the neck in the field yeah that's really impossible I'm thinking to sling metal there,,,I thought it was on the neck, I mean IDK
I'm never going to say you all are wrong you all are the experts,,, I'm new & yes I'm learning a bunch and I'm totally grateful for you all thanks again.
Why would you expect a fake to have perfect engraving?
Any oddity you find suggests fake not real. Real coins from a single die match nearly exactly except for the occasional struck-through grease, die chip, etc. When someone says the "CC is close..." that is equivalent to saying the "CC is fake." There's no "close", especially with known VAMs which come off a die with known characteristics.
With a coin like this with so many "close" features, it is screaming fake. The hair is "close", the 9 is "close", the CC is "close". Close = fake.
You are right @jmlanzaf that's why I humbly requested better pictures
PS I don't think you all will get timed out cause I see np with our comments,,, then again I've been reported just for posting so IDK.
I don't mind vamz comments is all I'm saying or anyone's I kinda look at them as opinions.
So instead of any opinions that might even sway just a tad from yours and I'm getting blocked
EPIC
Thanks all
PS you all won the guy isn't even gonna do a gravity test,,,, these are just observations.
@SlickCoins said:
So instead of any opinions that might even sway just a tad from yours and I'm getting blocked
EPIC
Thanks all
You're not getting blocked. You're getting ignored. That is preferable to the alternative.
It has nothing to do with "opinions" that differ a "tad". This forum disagrees CONSTANTLY. When everyone agrees and you are swimming against the current, that is more than just a tad. And when people point out the relevant facts and you keep going on about blobs or "raised marks" that aren't relevant, you wear down the patience of SOME people. [I'm not one of them.]
On many counterfeits, you will find plenty of "real" features. Some counterfeits are actually made from transfer dies taken from a real coin. To diagnose a counterfeit, you don't look for all the real features. All you need is ONE indicator that it is a counterfeit. In this case, experts have pointed out that it is an 1884 reverse die (known). Experts have pointed out that the CC placement is incorrect for any known 1881 reverse die. And experts have pointed out issues with the font in several areas. Any ONE of those is enough to demonstrate that it is a fake. You could find 100 features that match a real coin and that doesn't undo even ONE feature that proves it's a fake.
Do not get lost in the forest by focusing on every leaf. Focus on the path.
@SlickCoins said:
Hey GM Hoop,
You all are the experts,,I don't know any of the VAM's,,, yet
Also that sounds super impressive I'll look into VAM's they sound cool 😎
I'm new so this is gonna sound weird maybe 🤔😂
..............
I'm never going to say you all are wrong you all are the experts,,, I'm new & yes I'm learning a bunch and I'm totally grateful for you all thanks again.
You didn't reply if you thought about what the VAM expert said about the reverse die. Does your response above mean that you agree that he's correct, or are you still on the fence? Or are you going to continue to dance around the question. After all, you keep bringing up some doubt about this coin being fake.
DO YOU THINK THE COIN IS FAKE, OR DO YOU THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY IT'S AUTHENTIC. Time to put up or shut up. No more dancing around the subject and adding extraneous info with no explanation.
On these coins I agree with you all ✓Hoop
I just was pointing out stuff,, yes I'm swimming the wrong way
Yes I do chase after some features of coins hopefully not leafs but I can agree lol that silly coin.
I'd run everyone over pointing out a mark 😂 sorry all.
Oh geeze put up or shut up almost tempted to dig for more lol
Thanks all awesome thread and thanks for sharing
An update: I sent a long email that included pictures and mentioned everything you guys pointed out. The owner of the auction called me just now and was very apologetic and issued a refund. There were a few other coins I bought from the auction that seem authentic so I sent them to NGC and he asked me to let him know if they come back graded. He told me the owner of the coins has thousands of more coins that they were planning on listing but now that I brought this to their attention he said they are going to have to more seriously scrutinize each coin from him and it might not be worth it. To be honest I am very impressed with how responsive they were and how quickly they fixed the problem.
@Matthewdm11 said:
An update: I sent a long email that included pictures and mentioned everything you guys pointed out. The owner of the auction called me just now and was very apologetic and issued a refund. There were a few other coins I bought from the auction that seem authentic so I sent them to NGC and he asked me to let him know if they come back graded. He told me the owner of the coins has thousands of more coins that they were planning on listing but now that I brought this to their attention he said they are going to have to more seriously scrutinize each coin from him and it might not be worth it. To be honest I am very impressed with how responsive they were and how quickly they fixed the problem.
That’s very good to hear!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Comments
Agreed. And again, I believe that legally, you’re entitled to a refund, since the coin is clearly a counterfeit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Maybe Slick would buy it
...
Aliexpress does sell fakes in proper weight silver for $35.
Who cares? How would that change the opinion?
.
because that my dear watson, would lead to the point that the earth IS flat...
Finally! There is no Santa Claus in Numismatics.
I didn’t see where the OP or any respondents said or intimated that there was.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He thought he got a good deal at an estate sale even though he was told before the sale that it was bad.
The OP purchased the coin before posting it on the forum and was just waiting for it to come in the mail.
They posted this update when the coin was in hand.
GoldenEgg said it first. Many years ago when I was in Vietnam, I knowingly bought a fake 1875 CC Trade $. It was a good fake; the specs were correct. It fooled a number of dealers. The giveaway was the ping when we dropped it on a concrete floor. Silver doesn't sound that way. I'll bet that's what's going on with your coin, among other things.
Considering it's a better date, I'd also suggest looking on the web for characteristics of fake 1879 CC Morgans. I saw a site, for example, that provided tips for spotting fake 1893 S Morgans.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I looked at the OP’s posts in both threads and didn’t see any comments about a good deal or anything along those lines. Did you infer that he thought he got a good deal (or that there was a Santa Claus in numismatics) because he bought the coin in a estate sale?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
don't be skeptical
be 100% definite it's a counterfeit, because it is.
I gotta say, you're pretty amazing for accepting it so calmly! 95% of newbies who post about their coins are in utter denial when the members tell them it's likely a counterfeit, so great job with the respect and maturity you've shown already, keep it up!
)
."It's a dangerous business... going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to" -JRR Tolkien_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Outstanding BST transactions as a seller, buyer and trader with: ----- mustanggt, Kliao, claudewill87, MWallace, paesan, mpbuck82, moursund, basetsb, lordmarcovan, JWP, Coin hunter 4, COINS MAKE CENTS, PerryHall, Aspie_Rocco, Braddick, DBSTrader2, SanctionII, Histman, The_Dinosaur_Man, jesbroken, CentSearcher ------ANA Member #3214817
He was told AFTER the sale that it was likely bad. And he asked and maturely took the advice of the forum. There is no need to be snarky with him.
I bid and won the coin before posting my first post. I wish I made the post before bidding, I would not have bid, obviously.
Thank you, I am using this as a learning experience. I just sent a long email with HD pictures and comparison pictures from PCGS to the auction house. Hopefully they are willing to resolve this amicably and reimburse me.
Thank you, I am using this as a learning experience. I just sent a long email with HD pictures and comparison pictures from PCGS to the auction house. Hopefully they are willing to resolve this amicably and reimburse me.
"I just sent a long email with HD pictures and comparison pictures from PCGS to the auction house."
You could also send them a link to this thread and your prior one.
Once they see the experts that have responded it should remove any questions.
That is a good idea. If they dispute the authenticity of the coin I will do that.
So I figured it's being returned anyways,,,I was asked about the blob on the neck.
Well I'm glad you brought that up cause that would make total sense for a RIDB retained internal die break. JMO
Here ya go
PS I'm not saying it's real or fake I'm just making observations,,,, also I think the M For the engravers initial mark is done solo on each coin. JMO
The blob of metal in the field to the left of the neck
I don't see anything in the circled area. What about the die break would make total sense? Please be clear with your responses. You don't want people to be confused and misinterpret what you post.
What are your thoughts about a top VAM expert saying the reverse die type was only used in 1884? You have yet to comment on that significant piece of data.
Hey GM Hoop,
I'll look into VAM's they sound cool 😎
You all are the experts,,I don't know any of the VAM's,,, yet
Also that sounds super impressive
I'm new so this is gonna sound weird maybe 🤔😂
It's like the bugs bunny effect where metal is being displaced,, also I really didn't look at blobs
I was trying to make sense where all this hair went. I will say if it's on the other side of the neck in the field yeah that's really impossible I'm thinking to sling metal there,,,I thought it was on the neck, I mean IDK 
I'm never going to say you all are wrong you all are the experts,,, I'm new & yes I'm learning a bunch
and I'm totally grateful for you all thanks again.
Slick
@SlickCoins "I think the M For the engravers initial mark is done solo on each coin."
How can you tell it was done solo if you have only seen one and can't compare?
You get dumber with every comment you make.
You will end up spending 4 years here and still know absolutely nothing about coins kinda like Emerald & Robert.
You mean I'll becum dumber with each and every comment lol cause hmmm
Oh sorry I misspelled become*
My post was an intentional typo or Freudian slip.
Why would you expect a fake to have perfect engraving?
Any oddity you find suggests fake not real. Real coins from a single die match nearly exactly except for the occasional struck-through grease, die chip, etc. When someone says the "CC is close..." that is equivalent to saying the "CC is fake." There's no "close", especially with known VAMs which come off a die with known characteristics.
With a coin like this with so many "close" features, it is screaming fake. The hair is "close", the 9 is "close", the CC is "close". Close = fake.
With all due respect, if you keep attacking Slick, you'll be the one who gets a time out. It's not worth it. Better to just ignore him.
You are right @jmlanzaf that's why I humbly requested better pictures
is all I'm saying or anyone's I kinda look at them as opinions.
PS I don't think you all will get timed out cause I see np with our comments,,, then again I've been reported just for posting so IDK.
I don't mind vamz comments
@jmlanzaf & @MFeld Got it! Thanks!
So instead of any opinions that might even sway just a tad from yours and I'm getting blocked
EPIC
Thanks all
PS you all won the guy isn't even gonna do a gravity test,,,, these are just observations.
You're not getting blocked. You're getting ignored. That is preferable to the alternative.
It has nothing to do with "opinions" that differ a "tad". This forum disagrees CONSTANTLY. When everyone agrees and you are swimming against the current, that is more than just a tad. And when people point out the relevant facts and you keep going on about blobs or "raised marks" that aren't relevant, you wear down the patience of SOME people. [I'm not one of them.]
On many counterfeits, you will find plenty of "real" features. Some counterfeits are actually made from transfer dies taken from a real coin. To diagnose a counterfeit, you don't look for all the real features. All you need is ONE indicator that it is a counterfeit. In this case, experts have pointed out that it is an 1884 reverse die (known). Experts have pointed out that the CC placement is incorrect for any known 1881 reverse die. And experts have pointed out issues with the font in several areas. Any ONE of those is enough to demonstrate that it is a fake. You could find 100 features that match a real coin and that doesn't undo even ONE feature that proves it's a fake.
Do not get lost in the forest by focusing on every leaf. Focus on the path.
You didn't reply if you thought about what the VAM expert said about the reverse die. Does your response above mean that you agree that he's correct, or are you still on the fence? Or are you going to continue to dance around the question. After all, you keep bringing up some doubt about this coin being fake.
DO YOU THINK THE COIN IS FAKE, OR DO YOU THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY IT'S AUTHENTIC. Time to put up or shut up. No more dancing around the subject and adding extraneous info with no explanation.
On these coins I agree with you all
✓Hoop
hopefully not leafs but I can agree 
lol that silly coin.
I just was pointing out stuff,, yes I'm swimming the wrong way
Yes I do chase after some features of coins
I'd run everyone over pointing out a mark 😂 sorry all.
Oh geeze put up or shut up almost tempted to dig for more lol
Thanks all awesome thread and thanks for sharing
An update: I sent a long email that included pictures and mentioned everything you guys pointed out. The owner of the auction called me just now and was very apologetic and issued a refund. There were a few other coins I bought from the auction that seem authentic so I sent them to NGC and he asked me to let him know if they come back graded. He told me the owner of the coins has thousands of more coins that they were planning on listing but now that I brought this to their attention he said they are going to have to more seriously scrutinize each coin from him and it might not be worth it. To be honest I am very impressed with how responsive they were and how quickly they fixed the problem.
@Matthewdm11 Thanks for the update!
That’s very good to hear!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Lookie fakie, no takie.
There was a group of foreign sellers selling bad 1979-CC Morgans a while back; I had this image saved:
Yep! That was my coin 😂
Yep, that image on the right is the same coin....things are starting to get interesting right about now.